2020 General Election

[JohnStOnge]

I Googled around regarding this situation. Some articles are at https://patch.com/new-hampshire/windham ... ns-unknown , https://www.unionleader.com/news/politi ... 72ec6.html and https://patch.com/new-hampshire/windham ... am-recount.

There were 16 recounts in New Hampshire and I see no indication that any of the other 15 showed evidence of any significant problem. They all use the same vote counting machines. No indication of a widespread problem.

First things first. There is no such thing as a glitch. A computer program does not rewrite it's code to give a different result. Something had to interfere.

Secondly, scanning over the articles, I can't tell if all 16 counties had hand recounts. If you are simply looking at digital images, you are going to come up with the exact same total the machines gave you in the first place.

Election fraud. Cannot believe you would try to brush it aside.

I doubt that what we are seeing in that one small jurisdiction in New Hampshire is election fraud. But here is the thing: Everybody knows that election fraud occurs at some level. But the overwhelming consensus is that it does not have a significant impact. Even in the case we are talking about, which really caught peoples' eyes, whatever happened did not change any outcome. And we have no indication at this point that what happened was fraud.

Human error is always a potential factor. In this case, humans had to scan in the ballots.

I "brush it aside" because this fraud thing is a Republican White Whale. It is not a significant problem. And it isn't the reason Trump lost the Presidential election.

What we are talking about here is that there were errors in one local jurisdiction among hundreds of thousands or millions of jurisdictions in the United States and the errors were not large enough to change any outcomes. The State AG office is investigating it. And my prediction is that the State AG will determine that nothing nefarious went on. I predict that, if and when this is figured out, it's going to be a human error thing.

We do not have a significant voter fraud problem in the United States and Republicans need to let that White Whale go.

[SeattleGriz]

First things first. There is no such thing as a glitch. A computer program does not rewrite it's code to give a different result. Something had to interfere.

Secondly, scanning over the articles, I can't tell if all 16 counties had hand recounts. If you are simply looking at digital images, you are going to come up with the exact same total the machines gave you in the first place.

Election fraud. Cannot believe you would try to brush it aside.

I doubt that what we are seeing in that one small jurisdiction in New Hampshire is election fraud. But here is the thing: Everybody knows that election fraud occurs at some level. But the overwhelming consensus is that it does not have a significant impact. Even in the case we are talking about, which really caught peoples' eyes, whatever happened did not change any outcome. And we have no indication at this point that what happened was fraud.

I "brush it aside" because this fraud thing is a Republican White Whale. It is not a significant problem. And it isn't the reason Trump lost the Presidential election.

Oh really. We take the same ratio and apply it to the Georgia election, which Biden "won" by 11,000 votes with 4,935,487 ballots cast, and I come up with 329,032 votes Trump was screwed out of.

Trump won Georgia in a landslide. He broke the algorithm.

[JohnStOnge]

I doubt that what we are seeing in that one small jurisdiction in New Hampshire is election fraud. But here is the thing: Everybody knows that election fraud occurs at some level. But the overwhelming consensus is that it does not have a significant impact. Even in the case we are talking about, which really caught peoples' eyes, whatever happened did not change any outcome. And we have no indication at this point that what happened was fraud.

I "brush it aside" because this fraud thing is a Republican White Whale. It is not a significant problem. And it isn't the reason Trump lost the Presidential election.

Oh really. We take the same ratio and apply it to the Georgia election, which Biden "won" by 11,000 votes with 4,935,487 ballots cast, and I come up with 329,032 votes Trump was screwed out of.

Trump won Georgia in a landslide. He broke the algorithm.

The problem is that there is no basis for doing that. They had a problem in one small local jurisdiction in New Hampshire and there's no evidence that it happened even in other jurisdictions in New Hampshire.

Biden won Georgia. Republican election officials in that State have rebutted this nonsense repeatedly. The paper record in Georgia does provide a summary of who the voter voted for IN ADDITION TO the computer code that is used by the machine to count the vote. See https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html.

Under the new system, voters mark their choices on a screen and — unlike the old machines — get a paper record with a summary of their vote and a computer code. Voters then feed the paper record into a scanner, which uses the code to tally the vote.

So, yes, if there were issues with the voting machines, the audit Georgia did would have detected them.

[JohnStOnge]

A reminder of how things unfolded using Pennsylvania as the case study:

1) Prior to the election, it was reported that we should expect a "Red Mirage" in Pennsylvania due to the fact that election day would end with a very large number of mail in votes remaining to be counted. See https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pennsy ... r-patience.

Due to state laws governing mail-in and absentee vote counting, reported results could shift markedly between Election Day and the week’s end.

As previously reported by Fox News, each county is responsible for determining how it will tackle a massive volume of mail-in and absentee ballots – but the process cannot begin before 7 a.m. ET on Election Day.

2) On election day, it was reported that about 2.5 million Pennsylvanians had voted by mail, that about 1.6 million of those votes were by Democrats, and about 586 thousand of them were by Republicans. So we knew that Democrats had a net edge of around 1 million among the mail in votes. See https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/0 ... nia-433951.

3) On the day after election day, it was reported that, if Biden continued to win among mail in voters by the margin he had been winning by, he would overcome Trump's lead. See https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/04/upsh ... llots.html.

So far, Mr. Biden has won absentee voters in Pennsylvania, 78 percent to 21 percent, according to the Secretary of State’s office. The results comport with the findings of pre-election surveys and an analysis of absentee ballot requests, which all indicated that Mr. Biden held an overwhelming lead among absentee voters.

If Mr. Biden won the more than 1.4 million absentee votes by such a large margin, he would net around 800,000 votes — enough to overcome his deficit statewide.

Given such circumstances, using a probability argument based on the premise that we should think proportions voting for the two candidates after election day should look similar to proportions voting for the two candidates after election day is pretty ridiculous.

[JohnStOnge]

Here is some more detail on the paper ballot receipts in Georgia:

https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regiona ... CNGL9sEoK/

Here is a description of the paper ballot printout:

The ballot includes a text listing of voters’ choices along with a bar code that can be read by an optical scanning machine. Voters can review their choices and request a new ballot if needed.

As noted in the article, voters have the opportunity to look at the printout and make sure it indicates their choices. They then insert the paper ballot into a scanning machine. Then Georgia officials have a paper record indicating, in text, the voters' choices that the voters had a chance to review before scanning the ballot.

So, when Georgia officials did their audit, they could tell who the voter who could see what the paper ballot said before they scanned it voted for. The audit was totally legit and SHOULD convince any reasonable person that there was no issue with voting machines in Georgia.

[AZGrizFan]

We should see if we can keep this thread (and JSO) going on this topic for four years like we did the AnalJelly and the Russian collusion thread....

[SeattleGriz]

Here is some more detail on the paper ballot receipts in Georgia:

https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regiona ... CNGL9sEoK/

Here is a description of the paper ballot printout:

The ballot includes a text listing of voters’ choices along with a bar code that can be read by an optical scanning machine. Voters can review their choices and request a new ballot if needed.

As noted in the article, voters have the opportunity to look at the printout and make sure it indicates their choices. They then insert the paper ballot into a scanning machine. Then Georgia officials have a paper record indicating, in text, the voters' choices that the voters had a chance to review before scanning the ballot.

So, when Georgia officials did their audit, they could tell who the voter who could see what the paper ballot said before they scanned it voted for. The audit was totally legit and SHOULD convince any reasonable person that there was no issue with voting machines in Georgia.

That's great. Now address the issue of mail in ballots being adjudicated due to the scanners not being able to determine who the voter chose.

[Winterborn]

We should see if we can keep this thread (and JSO) going on this topic for four years like we did the AnalJelly and the Russian collusion thread....

Considering JSO's one track mind and his propensity to bite on the slimmest of bait that will not be much of challenge.

[UNI88]

We should see if we can keep this thread (and JSO) going on this topic for four years like we did the AnalJelly and the Russian collusion thread....

Considering JSO's one-track mind and his propensity to bite on the slimmest of bait that will not be much of a challenge.

But it could be entertaining.

[SeattleGriz]

We should see if we can keep this thread (and JSO) going on this topic for four years like we did the AnalJelly and the Russian collusion thread....

Considering JSO's one track mind and his propensity to bite on the slimmest of bait that will not be much of challenge.

[Skjellyfetti]

[kalm]

Fascinating anatomy of a Trump supporter....

“Speaking directly into the camera in July, Sparks acknowledged that his attitude online had become extreme. With an air both abashed for things he had said and hopeful that he had put those things behind him, he recounted multiple attempts at community intervention and vowed to resist forces that ultimately would overwhelm him.

“As you know I consider myself a devout Christian, a follower of Jesus Christ, and that’s my passion, has been for many years now,” he said. “As of late, with everything that’s been going on, boy it’s been a rough time for me, honestly. And I’ve been fighting really hard with anger. And seeing everything that’s been going on — whew, it is just … it’s eatin’ my lunch.”

Much of his message was devoted to the importance of going to church, relying on others to keep one on the straight and narrow. He spoke often of gratitude and love for people in his life who had helped him through a hard time. But he could not let go of the notion of a world under siege.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion ... christian/

[AZGrizFan]

Fascinating anatomy of a Trump supporter....

“Speaking directly into the camera in July, Sparks acknowledged that his attitude online had become extreme. With an air both abashed for things he had said and hopeful that he had put those things behind him, he recounted multiple attempts at community intervention and vowed to resist forces that ultimately would overwhelm him.

“As you know I consider myself a devout Christian, a follower of Jesus Christ, and that’s my passion, has been for many years now,” he said. “As of late, with everything that’s been going on, boy it’s been a rough time for me, honestly. And I’ve been fighting really hard with anger. And seeing everything that’s been going on — whew, it is just … it’s eatin’ my lunch.”

Much of his message was devoted to the importance of going to church, relying on others to keep one on the straight and narrow. He spoke often of gratitude and love for people in his life who had helped him through a hard time. But he could not let go of the notion of a world under siege.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion ... christian/

Same here. It’s why i got off almost all social media (especially Twitter—that’s HORRID; and Parler)....just so much vitriol out there it’s easy to get sucked into it. I’m a much calmer person now...

[SeattleGriz]

Fascinating anatomy of a Trump supporter....

“Speaking directly into the camera in July, Sparks acknowledged that his attitude online had become extreme. With an air both abashed for things he had said and hopeful that he had put those things behind him, he recounted multiple attempts at community intervention and vowed to resist forces that ultimately would overwhelm him.

“As you know I consider myself a devout Christian, a follower of Jesus Christ, and that’s my passion, has been for many years now,” he said. “As of late, with everything that’s been going on, boy it’s been a rough time for me, honestly. And I’ve been fighting really hard with anger. And seeing everything that’s been going on — whew, it is just … it’s eatin’ my lunch.”

Much of his message was devoted to the importance of going to church, relying on others to keep one on the straight and narrow. He spoke often of gratitude and love for people in his life who had helped him through a hard time. But he could not let go of the notion of a world under siege.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion ... christian/

Same here. It’s why i got off almost all social media (especially Twitter—that’s HORRID; and Parler)....just so much vitriol out there it’s easy to get sucked into it. I’m a much calmer person now...

I was tired of all the experts on everything.

[Gil Dobie]

Pence posse basically said Biden is the rightly elected President.

[Ibanez]

I Googled around regarding this situation. Some articles are at https://patch.com/new-hampshire/windham ... ns-unknown , https://www.unionleader.com/news/politi ... 72ec6.html and https://patch.com/new-hampshire/windham ... am-recount.

There were 16 recounts in New Hampshire and I see no indication that any of the other 15 showed evidence of any significant problem. They all use the same vote counting machines. No indication of a widespread problem.

First things first. There is no such thing as a glitch. A computer program does not rewrite it's code to give a different result. Something had to interfere.

Secondly, scanning over the articles, I can't tell if all 16 counties had hand recounts. If you are simply looking at digital images, you are going to come up with the exact same total the machines gave you in the first place.

Election fraud. Cannot believe you would try to brush it aside.

False. Glitches exist and computer programs can re-write their code (or codes they're creating). It's part of Machine-Learning (ML). Computers are learning to code themselves (which would include updating their code i.e. patches).

Add AI to equation and you have a machine that can operate itself, check a server for updates and update itself, visualize a problem within it's architecture and resolve it, create a program all without a human.

[∞∞∞]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe a "glitch" is a hardware problem which causes software issues, and a "bug" is a coding problem which causes software issues. Glitches happen, I encounter them in my job as I'm sure others have too.

[kalm]

First things first. There is no such thing as a glitch. A computer program does not rewrite it's code to give a different result. Something had to interfere.

Secondly, scanning over the articles, I can't tell if all 16 counties had hand recounts. If you are simply looking at digital images, you are going to come up with the exact same total the machines gave you in the first place.

Election fraud. Cannot believe you would try to brush it aside.

False. Glitches exist and computer programs can re-write their code (or codes they're creating). It's part of Machine-Learning (ML). Computers are learning to code themselves (which would include updating their code i.e. patches).

Add AI to equation and you have a machine that can operate itself, check a server for updates and update itself, visualize a problem within it's architecture and resolve it, create a program all without a human.

[Ibanez]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe a "glitch" is a hardware problem which causes software issues, and a "bug" is a coding problem which causes software issues. Glitches happen, I encounter them in my job as I'm sure others have too.

A glitch can be a system failure. They're usually temporary and sometimes resolve themselves (i.e. turn off your laptop and see if that corrects the problem).

A bug is a HW or SW defect. They produce unintended results and typically arise from a error in design or source code.

[Ibanez]

I Googled around regarding this situation. Some articles are at https://patch.com/new-hampshire/windham ... ns-unknown , https://www.unionleader.com/news/politi ... 72ec6.html and https://patch.com/new-hampshire/windham ... am-recount.

There were 16 recounts in New Hampshire and I see no indication that any of the other 15 showed evidence of any significant problem. They all use the same vote counting machines. No indication of a widespread problem.

First things first. There is no such thing as a glitch. A computer program does not rewrite it's code to give a different result. Something had to interfere.

Btw...don't you work for Boeing? 737 Max is INFAMOUS for its software glitch.

[SeattleGriz]

First things first. There is no such thing as a glitch. A computer program does not rewrite it's code to give a different result. Something had to interfere.

Secondly, scanning over the articles, I can't tell if all 16 counties had hand recounts. If you are simply looking at digital images, you are going to come up with the exact same total the machines gave you in the first place.

Election fraud. Cannot believe you would try to brush it aside.

False. Glitches exist and computer programs can re-write their code (or codes they're creating). It's part of Machine-Learning (ML). Computers are learning to code themselves (which would include updating their code i.e. patches).

Add AI to equation and you have a machine that can operate itself, check a server for updates and update itself, visualize a problem within it's architecture and resolve it, create a program all without a human.

In the context of the discussion, I was talking about the voting machines. In fact that seems that would be a hard requirement, that voting machines would not have the capability to rewrite code.

[Ibanez]

False. Glitches exist and computer programs can re-write their code (or codes they're creating). It's part of Machine-Learning (ML). Computers are learning to code themselves (which would include updating their code i.e. patches).

Add AI to equation and you have a machine that can operate itself, check a server for updates and update itself, visualize a problem within it's architecture and resolve it, create a program all without a human.

In the context of the discussion, I was talking about the voting machines. In fact that seems that would be a hard requirement, that a voting machines did not have the capability to rewrite it's code.

Voting machines run on HW and SW. It's 100% possible that there was a glitch and not as a result of a human doing anything nefarious.

[SeattleGriz]

In the context of the discussion, I was talking about the voting machines. In fact that seems that would be a hard requirement, that a voting machines did not have the capability to rewrite it's code.

Voting machines run on HW and SW. It's 100% possible that there was a glitch and not as a result of a human doing anything nefarious.

So a voting machines will simply "glitch" and swap votes? That as well seems like a very hard requirement.

[kalm]

Voting machines run on HW and SW. It's 100% possible that there was a glitch and not as a result of a human doing anything nefarious.

So a voting machines will simply "glitch" and swap votes? That as well seems like a very hard requirement.

SCOTUS says it doesn’t matter.

Ready to surrender?

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/supreme ... d=76043982

[Ibanez]

Voting machines run on HW and SW. It's 100% possible that there was a glitch and not as a result of a human doing anything nefarious.

So a voting machines will simply "glitch" and swap votes? That as well seems like a very hard requirement.

Why not? Phones and computers can have a bug that can switch functions (maximize instead of minimize, for example). I've seen it happen. We've seen defense systems kill friendly troops b/c the computer glitched and confused who to attack.