Glenn Beck.....it boggles my mind

[native]

Of course charity is part of what most churches are about dawg. But that is not what government should be about, not churches should definitely not be advocating that government do the job for failed churches.

And you forget what started this thread. Blasting churches that advocate collecting and redistributing. So you admit he was offbase?

Beck did not blast churches that collect and redistribute for charity. Ifthat is the point of this thread, it is a false charge. He blasted the communist-inspired politicization and secularization of the doctrine and usage of the term "social justice."

There are huge differences (both spiritual and practical differences) between giving freely of your treasure and time, and having it stolen by the government for someone else's collectivist redistributionist schemes.

THAT IS THE POINT!

[Skjellyfetti]

Reread what Beck said, Native.

"I beg you look for the words social justice or economic justice on your church Web site," he said. "If you find it, run as fast as you can. Social justice and economic justice, they are code words. ... Am I advising people to leave their church? Yes! If they're going to Jeremiah Wright's church, yes!

"If you have a priest that is pushing social justice, go find another parish," he said. "Go alert your bishop and tell them, 'Excuse me, are you down with this whole social justice thing?' If it's my church, I'm alerting the church authorities: 'Excuse me, what's this social justice thing?' And if they say, 'Yeah, we're all in on this social justice thing,' I am in the wrong place."

So... I wonder if Glenn Beck is going to start his own denomination. I know he'd have one loyal follower in native.

What denomination doesn't preach "social justice"....?

United States Conference of Catholic Bishops
http://www.usccb.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Episcopal Church
http://ecusa.anglican.org/social-justice.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

United Methodist Church
http://archives.umc.org/interior.asp?mid=1686" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

American Baptist Churches
http://www.abc-usa.org/WhoWeAre/Vision/ ... fault.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Vatican
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%2 ... =&aql=&oq=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints <--his own church website. I wonder if he's still a Mormon.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%2 ... =&aql=&oq=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[youngterrier]

What denomination doesn't preach "social justice"....?


United Methodist Church
http://archives.umc.org/interior.asp?mid=1686" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

dAmm

I'm a communist

[native]

So... I wonder if Glenn Beck is going to start his own denomination. I know he'd have one loyal follower in native.

What denomination doesn't preach "social justice"....?

United States Conference of Catholic Bishops
http://www.usccb.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Episcopal Church
http://ecusa.anglican.org/social-justice.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

United Methodist Church
http://archives.umc.org/interior.asp?mid=1686" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

American Baptist Churches
http://www.abc-usa.org/WhoWeAre/Vision/ ... fault.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Vatican
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%2 ... =&aql=&oq=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%2 ... =&aql=&oq=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As you already know, your conclusions are based on false and misleading premises, skelly. All denominations preach aspiration to social justice, but few pervert the concept as you advocate.

Popes Benedict and John Paul II have issued stern warnings about confusing the type of social justice you purport to advocate from the kind of government redistribution and politicized "social justice" movements Beck criticizes. I can't speak for all denominations, but some of the leadership in some of the denominations you list may well espouse such perverted, forced-redistributionist "social justice" movements, and they deeply deserve the criticism of Beck, as well as the Pope and other religious leaders, the Gospel-loving faithful, and every freedom loving human.

In fact, everyone who wants to see the poor succeed should stand up and oppose political "social justice" movements, since, as the Popes have warned, the marxist/redistributionist schemes advocated by the "social justice" movements make the problems of the poor worse.

You apparently smell blood on the water and press ahead with the false premise because you think you can get away with the sleight of hand due to Beck's unpopularity in this forum.

[Skjellyfetti]

What denomination doesn't preach "social justice"....?


United Methodist Church
http://archives.umc.org/interior.asp?mid=1686" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

dAmm

I'm a communist

And clicking around on that section of their website provides quite a bit that would make native and Beck's blood boil.

We claim all economic systems to be under the judgment of God no less than other facets of the created order. Therefore, we recognize the responsibility of governments to develop and implement sound fiscal and monetary policies that provide for the economic life of individuals and corporate entities and that ensure full employment and adequate incomes with a minimum of inflation. We believe private and public economic enterprises are responsible for the social costs of doing business, such as employment and environmental pollution, and that they should be held accountable for these costs. We support measures that would reduce the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few. We further support efforts to revise tax structures and to eliminate governmental support programs that now benefit the wealthy at the expense of other persons.

Therefore, we do not hold poor people morally responsible for their economic state. To begin to alleviate poverty, we support such policies as: adequate income maintenance, quality education, decent housing, job training, meaningful employment opportunities, adequate medical and hospital care, and humanization and radical revisions of welfare programs.

We support the right of public and private (including farm, government, institutional, and domestic) employees and employers to organize for collective bargaining into unions and other groups of their own choosing. Further, we support the right of both parties to protection in so doing and their responsibility to bargain in good faith within the framework of the public interest. In order that the rights of all members of the society may be maintained and promoted, we support innovative bargaining procedures that include representatives of the public interest in negotiation and settlement of labor-management contracts, including some that may lead to forms of judicial resolution of issues. We reject the use of violence by either party during collective bargaining or any labor/management disagreement. We likewise reject the permanent replacement of a worker who engages in a lawful strike.

Every person has the right to a job at a living wage. Where the private sector cannot or does not provide jobs for all who seek and need them, it is the responsibility of government to provide for the creation of such jobs. We support social measures that ensure the physical and mental safety of workers, that provide for the equitable division of products and services, and that encourage an increasing freedom in the way individuals may use their leisure time.

We recognize the opportunity leisure provides for creative contributions to society and encourage methods that allow workers additional blocks of discretionary time. We support educational, cultural, and recreational outlets that enhance the use of such time. We believe that persons come before profits. We deplore the selfish spirit that often pervades our economic life. We support policies that encourage the sharing of ideas in the workplace, cooperative and collective work arrangements. We support rights of workers to refuse to work in situations that endanger health and/or life without jeopardy to their jobs. We support policies that would reverse the increasing concentration of business and industry into monopolies.

Migratory and other farm workers, who have long been a special concern of the Church's ministry, are by the nature of their way of life excluded from many of the economic and social benefits enjoyed by other workers. Many of the migrant laborers' situations are aggravated because they are racial and ethnic minority persons who have been oppressed with numerous other inequities within the society.

We call upon our churches to seek to develop programs of service to such migrant people who come within their parish and support their efforts to organize for collective bargaining.

Damn communist fascists pinkos.

[native]

What denomination doesn't preach "social justice"....?


United Methodist Church
http://archives.umc.org/interior.asp?mid=1686" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

dAmm

I'm a communist

No rest for you, pup.

[youngterrier]

So... I wonder if Glenn Beck is going to start his own denomination. I know he'd have one loyal follower in native.

What denomination doesn't preach "social justice"....?

United States Conference of Catholic Bishops
http://www.usccb.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Episcopal Church
http://ecusa.anglican.org/social-justice.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

United Methodist Church
http://archives.umc.org/interior.asp?mid=1686" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

American Baptist Churches
http://www.abc-usa.org/WhoWeAre/Vision/ ... fault.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Vatican
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%2 ... =&aql=&oq=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%2 ... =&aql=&oq=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As you already know, your conclusions are based on false and misleading premises, skelly.

fail
you and Beck alike are the ones who draw conclusions on misleading premises and broad generalizations

ask any preacher what the definition of social justice is and their answers wouldn't of differed before this

(here's a hint, if everyone else in the world is crazy chances are that you are too)

[youngterrier]

dAmm

I'm a communist

And clicking around on that section of their website provides quite a bit that would make native and Beck's blood boil.

We claim all economic systems to be under the judgment of God no less than other facets of the created order. Therefore, we recognize the responsibility of governments to develop and implement sound fiscal and monetary policies that provide for the economic life of individuals and corporate entities and that ensure full employment and adequate incomes with a minimum of inflation. We believe private and public economic enterprises are responsible for the social costs of doing business, such as employment and environmental pollution, and that they should be held accountable for these costs. We support measures that would reduce the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few. We further support efforts to revise tax structures and to eliminate governmental support programs that now benefit the wealthy at the expense of other persons.

Therefore, we do not hold poor people morally responsible for their economic state. To begin to alleviate poverty, we support such policies as: adequate income maintenance, quality education, decent housing, job training, meaningful employment opportunities, adequate medical and hospital care, and humanization and radical revisions of welfare programs.

We support the right of public and private (including farm, government, institutional, and domestic) employees and employers to organize for collective bargaining into unions and other groups of their own choosing. Further, we support the right of both parties to protection in so doing and their responsibility to bargain in good faith within the framework of the public interest. In order that the rights of all members of the society may be maintained and promoted, we support innovative bargaining procedures that include representatives of the public interest in negotiation and settlement of labor-management contracts, including some that may lead to forms of judicial resolution of issues. We reject the use of violence by either party during collective bargaining or any labor/management disagreement. We likewise reject the permanent replacement of a worker who engages in a lawful strike.

Every person has the right to a job at a living wage. Where the private sector cannot or does not provide jobs for all who seek and need them, it is the responsibility of government to provide for the creation of such jobs. We support social measures that ensure the physical and mental safety of workers, that provide for the equitable division of products and services, and that encourage an increasing freedom in the way individuals may use their leisure time.

We recognize the opportunity leisure provides for creative contributions to society and encourage methods that allow workers additional blocks of discretionary time. We support educational, cultural, and recreational outlets that enhance the use of such time. We believe that persons come before profits. We deplore the selfish spirit that often pervades our economic life. We support policies that encourage the sharing of ideas in the workplace, cooperative and collective work arrangements. We support rights of workers to refuse to work in situations that endanger health and/or life without jeopardy to their jobs. We support policies that would reverse the increasing concentration of business and industry into monopolies.

Migratory and other farm workers, who have long been a special concern of the Church's ministry, are by the nature of their way of life excluded from many of the economic and social benefits enjoyed by other workers. Many of the migrant laborers' situations are aggravated because they are racial and ethnic minority persons who have been oppressed with numerous other inequities within the society.

We call upon our churches to seek to develop programs of service to such migrant people who come within their parish and support their efforts to organize for collective bargaining.

thanks for taking a facetious statement and making me feel very concerned

[Skjellyfetti]

native, this is just too easy. I could copy and paste all day.... but, I must watch Tennessee whoop up on Kentucky.

. But the social doctrine of the Church has unceasingly highlighted the importance of distributive justice and social justice for the market economy, not only because it belongs within a broader social and political context, but also because of the wider network of relations within which it operates. In fact, if the market is governed solely by the principle of the equivalence in value of exchanged goods, it cannot produce the social cohesion that it requires in order to function well.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/bened ... te_en.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[native]

dAmm

I'm a communist

And clicking around on that section of their website provides quite a bit that would make native and Beck's blood boil.

We claim all economic systems to be under the judgment of God no less than other facets of the created order. Therefore, we recognize the responsibility of governments to develop and implement sound fiscal and monetary policies that provide for the economic life of individuals and corporate entities and that ensure full employment and adequate incomes with a minimum of inflation. We believe private and public economic enterprises are responsible for the social costs of doing business, such as employment and environmental pollution, and that they should be held accountable for these costs. We support measures that would reduce the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few. We further support efforts to revise tax structures and to eliminate governmental support programs that now benefit the wealthy at the expense of other persons.

Therefore, we do not hold poor people morally responsible for their economic state. To begin to alleviate poverty, we support such policies as: adequate income maintenance, quality education, decent housing, job training, meaningful employment opportunities, adequate medical and hospital care, and humanization and radical revisions of welfare programs.

We support the right of public and private (including farm, government, institutional, and domestic) employees and employers to organize for collective bargaining into unions and other groups of their own choosing. Further, we support the right of both parties to protection in so doing and their responsibility to bargain in good faith within the framework of the public interest. In order that the rights of all members of the society may be maintained and promoted, we support innovative bargaining procedures that include representatives of the public interest in negotiation and settlement of labor-management contracts, including some that may lead to forms of judicial resolution of issues. We reject the use of violence by either party during collective bargaining or any labor/management disagreement. We likewise reject the permanent replacement of a worker who engages in a lawful strike.

Every person has the right to a job at a living wage. Where the private sector cannot or does not provide jobs for all who seek and need them, it is the responsibility of government to provide for the creation of such jobs. We support social measures that ensure the physical and mental safety of workers, that provide for the equitable division of products and services, and that encourage an increasing freedom in the way individuals may use their leisure time.

We recognize the opportunity leisure provides for creative contributions to society and encourage methods that allow workers additional blocks of discretionary time. We support educational, cultural, and recreational outlets that enhance the use of such time. We believe that persons come before profits. We deplore the selfish spirit that often pervades our economic life. We support policies that encourage the sharing of ideas in the workplace, cooperative and collective work arrangements. We support rights of workers to refuse to work in situations that endanger health and/or life without jeopardy to their jobs. We support policies that would reverse the increasing concentration of business and industry into monopolies.

Migratory and other farm workers, who have long been a special concern of the Church's ministry, are by the nature of their way of life excluded from many of the economic and social benefits enjoyed by other workers. Many of the migrant laborers' situations are aggravated because they are racial and ethnic minority persons who have been oppressed with numerous other inequities within the society.

We call upon our churches to seek to develop programs of service to such migrant people who come within their parish and support their efforts to organize for collective bargaining.

Some parts of your selective quotes should make your blood boil, too, skelly, as it boils the blood of many of the ordinary faithful and opens the eyes of freedom loving Americans of stripes who love God and liberty more than they hate Beck.

[native]

As you already know, your conclusions are based on false and misleading premises, skelly.

fail
you and Beck alike are the ones who draw conclusions on misleading premises and broad generalizations

ask any preacher what the definition of social justice is and their answers wouldn't of differed before this

(here's a hint, if everyone else in the world is crazy chances are that you are too)

YT, your point is well taken about many pastors, preachers and priests who who would cross the spiritual line to support government redistribution. But Beck and I are not alone. Many in church leadership and in the pews oppose such schemes on both practical and spiritual grounds.

Whenever you get over your hurt feelings and damaged pride, I know you are smart enough to understand that the definition of "social justice" does indeed matter a great deal to the opportunities and freedoms available to you personally and to the people you care about. Many aspects of the "social justice" movement deserve your unrelenting opposition.

If not, and your current thinking prevails in our society ,YT, the result will be more poverty and misery.

[kalm]

Neo feudalism is just as much a threat as social justice.

China is capitalistic, how is freedom working for them so far?

Somalia has virtually no government intervention or wealth redistribution. Wanna live there?

This is a moral issue, and who else should we turn to for moral questions other than churches, the free market?

Beware nate, the collectivists are coming to get you...and your buddy Glenn too.

[native]

...
Beware nate, the collectivists are coming to get you...and your buddy Glenn too.

Yeah, I noticed.

[youngterrier]

fail
you and Beck alike are the ones who draw conclusions on misleading premises and broad generalizations

ask any preacher what the definition of social justice is and their answers wouldn't of differed before this

(here's a hint, if everyone else in the world is crazy chances are that you are too)

YT, your point is well taken about many pastors, preachers and priests who who would cross the spiritual line to support government redistribution. But Beck and I are not alone. Many in church leadership and in the pews oppose such schemes on both practical and spiritual grounds.

Whenever you get over your hurt feelings and damaged pride, I know you are smart enough to understand that the definition of "social justice" does indeed matter a great deal to the opportunities and freedoms available to you personally and the people you care for, and that many aspects of the "social justice" movement deserve your unrelenting opposition.

If not, and your current thinking prevails in our society ,YT, the result will be more poverty and misery.

sigh

once again you offer nothing but bloated rhetoric and little substance....it's kind of funny that Glenn Beck and a wikipedia definition can make you wet yourself so. you haven't given any sort of rebuttal to any of my claims but rather you would put words in my mouth, in a McCarthyist way by stating my current thinking would lead to poverty and misery and basically implying that I like wealth redistribution ...what proof do you have this? absolutely none (DID YOU NOT READ THE FREAKING "FIX THE ECONOMY" THREAD?), you, Glenn Beck and Joe McCarthy have a lot in common...all the people who disagree with you are communists, fascists, and Marxists

the Dictionary.com definition of Social Justice--the distribution of advantages and disadvantages within a society

notice the words "government forced redistribution of wealth" are not in there. it is the definition of social justice normal people use and that the Church implies, and when the church and citizens no longer helps the poor it's YOU CRAZY PEOPLES' FAULT then we have poverty and misery because the IDEA of helping people out economically is seen as communist, fascist, marxist, etc

News Flash: in order for the economic principals that I propose work we morally NEED Social Justice. After all the system I propose is Social Darwinism in nature as that is what Free Market economics are

[kalm]

YT, your point is well taken about many pastors, preachers and priests who who would cross the spiritual line to support government redistribution. But Beck and I are not alone. Many in church leadership and in the pews oppose such schemes on both practical and spiritual grounds.

Whenever you get over your hurt feelings and damaged pride, I know you are smart enough to understand that the definition of "social justice" does indeed matter a great deal to the opportunities and freedoms available to you personally and the people you care for, and that many aspects of the "social justice" movement deserve your unrelenting opposition.

If not, and your current thinking prevails in our society ,YT, the result will be more poverty and misery.

sigh

once again you offer nothing but bloated rhetoric and little substance....it's kind of funny that Glenn Beck and a wikipedia definition can make you wet yourself so. you haven't given any sort of rebuttal to any of my claims but rather you would put words in my mouth, in a McCarthyist way by stating my current thinking would lead to poverty and misery and basically implying that I like wealth redistribution ...what proof do you have this? absolutely none (DID YOU NOT READ THE FREAKING "FIX THE ECONOMY" THREAD?), you, Glenn Beck and Joe McCarthy have a lot in common...all the people who disagree with you are communists, fascists, and Marxists

the Dictionary.com definition of Social Justice--the distribution of advantages and disadvantages within a society

notice the words "government forced redistribution of wealth" are not in there. it is the definition of social justice normal people use and that the Church implies, and when the church and citizens no longer helps the poor it's YOU CRAZY PEOPLES' FAULT then we have poverty and misery because the IDEA of helping people out economically is seen as communist, fascist, marxist, etc

News Flash: in order for the economic principals that I propose work we morally NEED Social Justice. After all the system I propose is Social Darwinism in nature as that is what Free Market economics are

Then those churches better really get off their ass and start fund raising if they're gonna become the nanny and edcuator of all the nations poor and lazy.

[native]

YT, your point is well taken about many pastors, preachers and priests who who would cross the spiritual line to support government redistribution. But Beck and I are not alone. Many in church leadership and in the pews oppose such schemes on both practical and spiritual grounds.

Whenever you get over your hurt feelings and damaged pride, I know you are smart enough to understand that the definition of "social justice" does indeed matter a great deal to the opportunities and freedoms available to you personally and the people you care for, and that many aspects of the "social justice" movement deserve your unrelenting opposition.

If not, and your current thinking prevails in our society ,YT, the result will be more poverty and misery.

sigh

once again you offer nothing but bloated rhetoric and little substance....it's kind of funny that Glenn Beck and a wikipedia definition can make you wet yourself so. you haven't given any sort of rebuttal to any of my claims but rather you would put words in my mouth, in a McCarthyist way by stating my current thinking would lead to poverty and misery and basically implying that I like wealth redistribution ...what proof do you have this? absolutely none (DID YOU NOT READ THE FREAKING "FIX THE ECONOMY" THREAD?), you, Glenn Beck and Joe McCarthy have a lot in common...all the people who disagree with you are communists, fascists, and Marxists

the Dictionary.com definition of Social Justice--the distribution of advantages and disadvantages within a society

notice the words "government forced redistribution of wealth" are not in there. it is the definition of social justice normal people use and that the Church implies, and when the church and citizens no longer helps the poor it's YOU CRAZY PEOPLES' FAULT then we have poverty and misery because the IDEA of helping people out economically is seen as communist, fascist, marxist, etc

News Flash: in order for the economic principals that I propose work we morally NEED Social Justice. After all the system I propose is Social Darwinism in nature as that is what Free Market economics are

I have never once stated that the idea of helping people out is communist, and I do not believe it to be true. I have stated the the organized political "social justice" movements and government redistributionist schemes are the problem, and are indeed in some cases communist and supported by communists under false pretenses. Do you not see the distinction? Do you not believe there is a distinction?

I am genuinely perplexed by what I perceive to be a disconnect between your support for the kind of government redistributionist "social justice" espoused by skelly on this thread and your posts on the "Fix the Economy" thread. I am all for moral social justice, but I do not think it is possible to achieve using government redistribution.

I am also genuinely perplexed that you do not see "government forced redistribution" in some of the passages posted by skelly.

There is still a difference between equality of opportunity and equality of results.

[kalm]

sigh

once again you offer nothing but bloated rhetoric and little substance....it's kind of funny that Glenn Beck and a wikipedia definition can make you wet yourself so. you haven't given any sort of rebuttal to any of my claims but rather you would put words in my mouth, in a McCarthyist way by stating my current thinking would lead to poverty and misery and basically implying that I like wealth redistribution ...what proof do you have this? absolutely none (DID YOU NOT READ THE FREAKING "FIX THE ECONOMY" THREAD?), you, Glenn Beck and Joe McCarthy have a lot in common...all the people who disagree with you are communists, fascists, and Marxists

the Dictionary.com definition of Social Justice--the distribution of advantages and disadvantages within a society

notice the words "government forced redistribution of wealth" are not in there. it is the definition of social justice normal people use and that the Church implies, and when the church and citizens no longer helps the poor it's YOU CRAZY PEOPLES' FAULT then we have poverty and misery because the IDEA of helping people out economically is seen as communist, fascist, marxist, etc

News Flash: in order for the economic principals that I propose work we morally NEED Social Justice. After all the system I propose is Social Darwinism in nature as that is what Free Market economics are

I have never once stated that the idea of helping people out is communist, and I do not believe it to be true. I have stated the the organized political "social justice" movements and government redistributionist schemes are the problem, and are indeed in some cases communist and supported by communists under false pretenses. Do you not see the distinction? Do you not believe there is a distinction?

I am genuinely perplexed by what I perceive to be a disconnect between your support for the kind of government redistributionist "social justice" espoused by skelly on this thread and your posts on the "Fix the Economy" thread. I am all for moral social justice, but I do not think it is possible to achieve using government redistribution.

I am also genuinely perplexed that you do not see "government forced redistribution" in some of the passages posted by skelly.

There is still a difference between equality of opportunity and equality of results.

Seriously, where do these movements exist other than in Glenn's mind? The communist party in the US is about as significant as constitutionalist party.

[youngterrier]

sigh

once again you offer nothing but bloated rhetoric and little substance....it's kind of funny that Glenn Beck and a wikipedia definition can make you wet yourself so. you haven't given any sort of rebuttal to any of my claims but rather you would put words in my mouth, in a McCarthyist way by stating my current thinking would lead to poverty and misery and basically implying that I like wealth redistribution ...what proof do you have this? absolutely none (DID YOU NOT READ THE FREAKING "FIX THE ECONOMY" THREAD?), you, Glenn Beck and Joe McCarthy have a lot in common...all the people who disagree with you are communists, fascists, and Marxists

the Dictionary.com definition of Social Justice--the distribution of advantages and disadvantages within a society

notice the words "government forced redistribution of wealth" are not in there. it is the definition of social justice normal people use and that the Church implies, and when the church and citizens no longer helps the poor it's YOU CRAZY PEOPLES' FAULT then we have poverty and misery because the IDEA of helping people out economically is seen as communist, fascist, marxist, etc

News Flash: in order for the economic principals that I propose work we morally NEED Social Justice. After all the system I propose is Social Darwinism in nature as that is what Free Market economics are

I have never once stated that the idea of helping people out is communist, and I do not believe it to be true. I have stated the the organized political "social justice" movements and government redistributionist schemes are the problem, and are indeed in some cases communist and supported by communists under false pretenses. Do you not see the distinction? Do you not believe there is a distinction?

I am genuinely perplexed by what I perceive to be a disconnect between your support for the kind of government redistributionist "social justice" espoused by skelly on this thread and your posts on the "Fix the Economy" thread. I am all for moral social justice, but I do not think it is possible to achieve using government redistribution.

I am also genuinely perplexed that you do not see "government forced redistribution" in some of the passages posted by skelly.

There is still a difference between equality of opportunity and equality of results.

I am not for government forced social Justice, I have stated it plenty of time, if you can't figure that out by now you need to take some reading comprehension classes. the problem is that you're defending Beck as if he is a saint for what he said when in reality he didn't specify WHAT KIND of social justice and when he doesn't specify WHAT KIND of social justice it implies ALL social justice whether it be simple private charity or government redistribution of wealth. And when he uses rhetoric with the words socialist, fascist, marxist, etc he demonizes EVERYONE who supports ANY KIND of social justice. The reason I came on this thread was to reveal Beck for the embarrassment he is, again I say he demonizes people not issues, his failure to enlighten people on whatever definition he uses for social justice and why it is bad is an example of him just trying to fire up a witch hunt.

[kalm]

The foot soldiers in the collectivist/communist/social justice movement:

[youngterrier]

sigh

once again you offer nothing but bloated rhetoric and little substance....it's kind of funny that Glenn Beck and a wikipedia definition can make you wet yourself so. you haven't given any sort of rebuttal to any of my claims but rather you would put words in my mouth, in a McCarthyist way by stating my current thinking would lead to poverty and misery and basically implying that I like wealth redistribution ...what proof do you have this? absolutely none (DID YOU NOT READ THE FREAKING "FIX THE ECONOMY" THREAD?), you, Glenn Beck and Joe McCarthy have a lot in common...all the people who disagree with you are communists, fascists, and Marxists

the Dictionary.com definition of Social Justice--the distribution of advantages and disadvantages within a society

notice the words "government forced redistribution of wealth" are not in there. it is the definition of social justice normal people use and that the Church implies, and when the church and citizens no longer helps the poor it's YOU CRAZY PEOPLES' FAULT then we have poverty and misery because the IDEA of helping people out economically is seen as communist, fascist, marxist, etc

News Flash: in order for the economic principals that I propose work we morally NEED Social Justice. After all the system I propose is Social Darwinism in nature as that is what Free Market economics are

Then those churches better really get off their ass and start fund raising if they're gonna become the nanny and edcuator of all the nations poor and lazy.

I don't know what you are getting at there. it doesn't just need to be the Church as I already said

[native]

I have never once stated that the idea of helping people out is communist, and I do not believe it to be true. I have stated the the organized political "social justice" movements and government redistributionist schemes are the problem, and are indeed in some cases communist and supported by communists under false pretenses. Do you not see the distinction? Do you not believe there is a distinction?

I am genuinely perplexed by what I perceive to be a disconnect between your support for the kind of government redistributionist "social justice" espoused by skelly on this thread and your posts on the "Fix the Economy" thread. I am all for moral social justice, but I do not think it is possible to achieve using government redistribution.

I am also genuinely perplexed that you do not see "government forced redistribution" in some of the passages posted by skelly.

There is still a difference between equality of opportunity and equality of results.

I am not for government forced social Justice, I have stated it plenty of time, if you can't figure that out by now you need to take some reading comprehension classes. the problem is that you're defending Beck as if he is a saint for what he said when in reality he didn't specify WHAT KIND of social justice and when he doesn't specify WHAT KIND of social justice it implies ALL social justice whether it be simple private charity or government redistribution of wealth. And when he uses rhetoric with the words socialist, fascist, marxist, etc he demonizes EVERYONE who supports ANY KIND of social justice. The reason I came on this thread was to reveal Beck for the embarrassment he is, again I say he demonizes people not issues, his failure to enlighten people on whatever definition he uses for social justice and why it is bad is an example of him just trying to fire up a witch hunt.

I apologize if you think I have put words in your mouth. It was not intentional. Although not on this thread, I perceive your posts overall to be grounded in analysis and a spirit of inquiry unlike many of the jokesters and subversives who lurk here.

You have put a few words in my mouth as well. I have never attacked private charity as being communist.

[kalm]

Then those churches better really get off their ass and start fund raising if they're gonna become the nanny and edcuator of all the nations poor and lazy.

I don't know what you are getting at there. it doesn't just need to be the Church as I already said

It may be my misunderstanding, but in a socially darwinistic free market system we would eventually have fewer winners and more losers and less government safety nets so if churches and private charities are going to take up the additional slack they really need get humpin'.

[kalm]

I am not for government forced social Justice, I have stated it plenty of time, if you can't figure that out by now you need to take some reading comprehension classes. the problem is that you're defending Beck as if he is a saint for what he said when in reality he didn't specify WHAT KIND of social justice and when he doesn't specify WHAT KIND of social justice it implies ALL social justice whether it be simple private charity or government redistribution of wealth. And when he uses rhetoric with the words socialist, fascist, marxist, etc he demonizes EVERYONE who supports ANY KIND of social justice. The reason I came on this thread was to reveal Beck for the embarrassment he is, again I say he demonizes people not issues, his failure to enlighten people on whatever definition he uses for social justice and why it is bad is an example of him just trying to fire up a witch hunt.

I apologize if you think I have put words in your mouth. It was not intentional. Although not on this thread, I perceive your posts overall to be grounded in analysis and a spirit of inquiry unlike many of the jokesters and subversives who lurk here.

You have put a few words in my mouth as well. I have never attacked private charity as being communist.

But that's exactly what Beck did when he suggested that if you hear a preacher use the term social justice you should run like hell and then went to the visual aids of the swastika and hammer and sickle.

Personally I think you're smarter than that and you should be the one running like hell from... from Beck.

[BlueHen86]

I am not for government forced social Justice, I have stated it plenty of time, if you can't figure that out by now you need to take some reading comprehension classes. the problem is that you're defending Beck as if he is a saint for what he said when in reality he didn't specify WHAT KIND of social justice and when he doesn't specify WHAT KIND of social justice it implies ALL social justice whether it be simple private charity or government redistribution of wealth. And when he uses rhetoric with the words socialist, fascist, marxist, etc he demonizes EVERYONE who supports ANY KIND of social justice. The reason I came on this thread was to reveal Beck for the embarrassment he is, again I say he demonizes people not issues, his failure to enlighten people on whatever definition he uses for social justice and why it is bad is an example of him just trying to fire up a witch hunt.

I apologize if you think I have put words in your mouth. It was not intentional. Although not on this thread, I perceive your posts overall to be grounded in analysis and a spirit of inquiry unlike many of the jokesters and subversives who lurk here.

You have put a few words in my mouth as well. I have never attacked private charity as being communist.

Jokesters lurking in the poli wing of a football message board

The horror!

We're trying to solve the worlds problems here, these clowns better get with the program or else nobody will take them seriously.

[youngterrier]

I don't know what you are getting at there. it doesn't just need to be the Church as I already said

It may be my misunderstanding, but in a socially darwinistic free market system we would eventually have fewer winners and more losers and less government safety nets so if churches and private charities are going to take up the additional slack they really need get humpin'.

I'll disagree with that but that's another thread for another time