Wikileaks cables and Saudi oil:

[Appaholic]

Who else but tree huggers could possibly be opposed to breathing poison and removing mountaintops?

The tree huggers are a big part of the problem because they are so blinded by their hatred of anything coal. For example Alliant Energy proposed to build a new coal fired plant and in exchange they would shut down 3 older plants. Although it was larger the new plant would have emitted less pollution because of all the new technology such as scrubbers, baghouses, etc. However the tree huggers fought them every step of the way so Alliant decided to give up and cancel the project. So we still have those 3 old plants emitting pollution everyday so Alliant can meet their power supply needs. Great move wasn't it?

And this mentality is exactly what I was referring to when I stated environmentalists's are taking themselves out of the rational argument. The fact is we use coal & are going to use coal. So we need to lessen the impacts of both it's extraction & consumption as it is a viable soource of energy when used in a responsible manner. But to oppose it only because it is coal is a myopic view at best....

[houndawg]

Just tree huggers? What about people who live near them, and have to breathe the **** that comes out? Or people like Appa who get to see the tops of their mountains taken off?

Nice deflection. Now answer the question. Are you ready to pay 25 cents a kwh (or more)? Are you ready to pay higher prices for everything you buy because electricity will cost Ford, Walmart, the farmer, etc. more? Are you ready for your taxes to go up so the schools and other government buildings can pay the higher costs? Are you ready to contribute more money, either through a personal donation or through higher taxes, so we can provide more heating assistance to the poor that can no longer afford their electric bill?

You need a better question- whether we're ready to pay more is irrelevant. You will pay more every year regardless of whether you're ready or not and regardless of where the new energy comes from. Like taxes.

[Grizalltheway]

Nice deflection. Now answer the question. Are you ready to pay 25 cents a kwh (or more)? Are you ready to pay higher prices for everything you buy because electricity will cost Ford, Walmart, the farmer, etc. more? Are you ready for your taxes to go up so the schools and other government buildings can pay the higher costs? Are you ready to contribute more money, either through a personal donation or through higher taxes, so we can provide more heating assistance to the poor that can no longer afford their electric bill?

You need a better question- whether we're ready to pay more is irrelevant. You will pay more every year regardless of whether you're ready or not and regardless of where the new energy comes from. Like taxes.

Also, why don't we take the billions in subsidies we give to oil companies and put it towards clean energy sources?

[houndawg]

Who else but tree huggers could possibly be opposed to breathing poison and removing mountaintops?

The tree huggers are a big part of the problem because they are so blinded by their hatred of anything coal. For example Alliant Energy proposed to build a new coal fired plant and in exchange they would shut down 3 older plants. Although it was larger the new plant would have emitted less pollution because of all the new technology such as scrubbers, baghouses, etc. However the tree huggers fought them every step of the way so Alliant decided to give up and cancel the project. So we still have those 3 old plants emitting pollution everyday so Alliant can meet their power supply needs. Great move wasn't it?

Oh please. If they wanted that plant their lobbyists would have seen to it. They have platoons of lawyers that eat treehuggers for breakfast every day.