Minimum Wage Seattle...

[clenz]

Off topic of the Seattle guy but on topic of salary vs hourly.

I started as a driver on hourly pay. I then moved to onside sales as hourly. I am now branch manager/inside sales and am still hourly.

I've been approached about going salary but have been putting it off because there are weeks I get 8 to 10 hours of OT. What reason is there for me to go to salary, and would I actually even qualify?

Also on that same topic, I'm technically not supposed to answer emails, texts, or phone calls related to work but do on a daily basis while off the clock. Am I owed money for that?

[CAA Flagship]

Off topic of the Seattle guy but on topic of salary vs hourly.

I started as a driver on hourly pay. I then moved to onside sales as hourly. I am now branch manager/inside sales and am still hourly.

I've been approached about going salary but have been putting it off because there are weeks I get 8 to 10 hours of OT. What reason is there for me to go to salary, and would I actually even qualify?

Also on that same topic, I'm technically not supposed to answer emails, texts, or phone calls related to work but do on a daily basis while off the clock. Am I owed money for that?

Not sure on the qualification part, but keep a record of your OT. When the salary discussion hits again, you want to include your historical overtime pay in the equation for negotiating your salary. So if you are making $10K per year plus $1k in OT, you should ask for at least $11k. But if more OT is expected, it should probably be more like $12k. Salary status may also bump you into bonus category, or increase your bonus.

[tribe_pride]

Off topic of the Seattle guy but on topic of salary vs hourly.

I started as a driver on hourly pay. I then moved to onside sales as hourly. I am now branch manager/inside sales and am still hourly.

I've been approached about going salary but have been putting it off because there are weeks I get 8 to 10 hours of OT. What reason is there for me to go to salary, and would I actually even qualify?

Also on that same topic, I'm technically not supposed to answer emails, texts, or phone calls related to work but do on a daily basis while off the clock. Am I owed money for that?

Not sure on the qualification part, but keep a record of your OT. When the salary discussion hits again, you want to include your historical overtime pay in the equation for negotiating your salary. So if you are making $10K per year plus $1k in OT, you should ask for at least $11k. But if more OT is expected, it should probably be more like $12k. Salary status may also bump you into bonus category, or increase your bonus.

Agreed with CAA on expectations of going exempt or salaried (though it may or may not be your choice at one point). Whether you are eligible to be an exempt employee, it all depends on your specific duties. Title has little to do with it since I can call anyone I want a manger or VP but that means squat at certain companies.

With respect to being paid for stuff done outside of work, the answer is you are supposed to be compensated for it but employer needs to know you are doing it for you to be paid. That being said watch out about doing too much OT without permission. While you must be paid for it, you can be disciplined for doing too much OT because it costs the company extra money for it. It sounds stupid to discipline someone for doing extra work but when it costs a company 50% more for that work to be done, it can be understandable from the Company's part.

[JohnStOnge]

I am salaried. I look at it as my obligation to be accessible. By "obligation" I mean that I look at it as being the "moral" thing to do. I answer phone calls when I am on my off hours all the time. I WANT people to feel free to call me at ANY time if they need my input. My answering machine message does not start off by saying. "leave a message." Instead, it starts of with "you can call me on my cell phone at ...." THEN it says "...or, leave a message." But I consider it important to start off by telling people they can call me on my cell phone if they need to get in touch with me and I don't expect any extra compensation for it.

[kalm]

Why some people are so angry at this guy. Gawdamm commies!

(Guess the author)

'Masters are always and everywhere in a sort of tacit, but constant and uniform, combination, not to raise the wages of labour above their actual rate. To violate this combination is everywhere a most unpopular action, and a sort of reproach to a master among his neighbours and equals."

“Men of inferior wealth combine to defend those of superior wealth in the possession of their property, in order that men of superior wealth may combine to defend them in the possession of theirs. … Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defence of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all.”

“High profits tend much more to raise the price of work than high wages. … Our merchants and master-manufacturers complain much of the bad effects of high wages in raising the price, and thereby lessening the sale of their goods both at home and abroad. They say nothing concerning the bad effects of high profits. They are silent with regard to the pernicious effects of their own gains. They complain only of those of other people.”

“The rate of profit … is naturally low in rich, and high in poor countries, and it is always highest in the countries which are going fastest to ruin.”

Spoiler: show

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015 ... kers-well/

[CAA Flagship]

Why some people are so angry at this guy. Gawdamm commies!

(Guess the author)

'Masters are always and everywhere in a sort of tacit, but constant and uniform, combination, not to raise the wages of labour above their actual rate. To violate this combination is everywhere a most unpopular action, and a sort of reproach to a master among his neighbours and equals."

“Men of inferior wealth combine to defend those of superior wealth in the possession of their property, in order that men of superior wealth may combine to defend them in the possession of theirs. … Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defence of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all.”

“High profits tend much more to raise the price of work than high wages. … Our merchants and master-manufacturers complain much of the bad effects of high wages in raising the price, and thereby lessening the sale of their goods both at home and abroad. They say nothing concerning the bad effects of high profits. They are silent with regard to the pernicious effects of their own gains. They complain only of those of other people.”

“The rate of profit … is naturally low in rich, and high in poor countries, and it is always highest in the countries which are going fastest to ruin.”

Spoiler: show

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015 ... kers-well/

What is better for his employees? To have a job that pays a little, or to not have a job that pays a lot?
The bottom line is that his company was not making enough money to cover that much of a pay raise.

[89Hen]

why did those long time employees quit?

Because of the inequity of rewarding entry level positions over seniority and the likelihood of finding a better job.

This is one of my biggest complaints about minimum wage increases in that it hampers raises to more deserving people who have been with me longer.

I don't know how much experienced is gained by working at this company, but I do know that

1) Everyone is replaceable

and

2) They'd be stupid at throwing away decent paying jobs without the solid chance of taking an equal if not better position elsewhere.

Sorry for the long story, but...

My first job out of college was as a cartographer making $19,000 a year. We had a contract with FEMA to draw flood maps, one of three engineering firms that shared the contract. I came out of college with a decent amount of practice in manual cartography (not much GIS or CAD at that time) and I quickly learned the job and actually became a reviewer of other people's work. After 6 months, they hired two new guys and I helped train them, but it was clear they just weren't getting it. They couldn't handle the work from a thinking or physical standpoint.

On my floor was another department that colored Marvel Comic books using Mac's and Adobe Illustrator. I told the manager from that department that I could make maps using Illustrator (self-taught in college) and we put in a bid and won a contract from the Library of Congress to do some graphic maps (less technical) for a series of books they were publishing on every country in the world. I was able to generate the maps for an entire book in a week, which was half the time the contract paid (good deal for company). I was glad this new contract worked out because I could tell our collective work on the FEMA contract was really sub-par and I thought we could lose that contract.

So at the end of the year it comes time for reviews and "performance" raises. I rate out at a very high level and I get the minimum raise. The same raise they give the two newer guys who rated out mediocre. Being 23 years old, I didn't have much of a filter. I was livid and I went back to my station, typed up my resignation letter telling the manager he was a fool and that they would lose BOTH contracts, one becuase the work was sub-par, and the other because they wouldn't be able to find a suitable replacement for me (arrogant, yes, but also accurate because I don't think there were many people who knew how to do this kind of work). Two months later I became a golf pro.

A couple years later I ran into a guy from the engineering firm who actually tried to learn my work for the LOC contract. He said he couldn't do it and they dropped the contract. Oh, and they lost the FEMA contract soon after I left.

[D1B]

Because of the inequity of rewarding entry level positions over seniority and the likelihood of finding a better job.

This is one of my biggest complaints about minimum wage increases in that it hampers raises to more deserving people who have been with me longer.

I don't know how much experienced is gained by working at this company, but I do know that

1) Everyone is replaceable

and

2) They'd be stupid at throwing away decent paying jobs without the solid chance of taking an equal if not better position elsewhere.

Sorry for the long story, but...

My first job out of college was as a cartographer making $19,000 a year. We had a contract with FEMA to draw flood maps, one of three engineering firms that shared the contract. I came out of college with a decent amount of practice in manual cartography (not much GIS or CAD at that time) and I quickly learned the job and actually became a reviewer of other people's work. After 6 months, they hired two new guys and I helped train them, but it was clear they just weren't getting it. They couldn't handle the work from a thinking or physical standpoint.

On my floor was another department that colored Marvel Comic books using Mac's and Adobe Illustrator. I told the manager from that department that I could make maps using Illustrator (self-taught in college) and we put in a bid and won a contract from the Library of Congress to do some graphic maps (less technical) for a series of books they were publishing on every country in the world. I was able to generate the maps for an entire book in a week, which was half the time the contract paid (good deal for company). I was glad this new contract worked out because I could tell our collective work on the FEMA contract was really sub-par and I thought we could lose that contract.

So at the end of the year it comes time for reviews and "performance" raises. I rate out at a very high level and I get the minimum raise. The same raise they give the two newer guys who rated out mediocre. Being 23 years old, I didn't have much of a filter. I was livid and I went back to my station, typed up my resignation letter telling the manager he was a fool and that they would lose BOTH contracts, one becuase the work was sub-par, and the other because they wouldn't be able to find a suitable replacement for me (arrogant, yes, but also accurate because I don't think there were many people who knew how to do this kind of work). Two months later I became a golf pro.

A couple years later I ran into a guy from the engineering firm who actually tried to learn my work for the LOC contract. He said he couldn't do it and they dropped the contract. Oh, and they lost the FEMA contract soon after I left.

I fell asleep at the end of the first paragraph. When did you all doze off?

[89Hen]

I fell asleep at the end of the first paragraph. When did you all doze off?

I made it through the second.

[bandl]

Sorry for the long story, but...

My first job out of college was as a cartographer making $19,000 a year. We had a contract with FEMA to draw flood maps, one of three engineering firms that shared the contract. I came out of college with a decent amount of practice in manual cartography (not much GIS or CAD at that time) and I quickly learned the job and actually became a reviewer of other people's work. After 6 months, they hired two new guys and I helped train them, but it was clear they just weren't getting it. They couldn't handle the work from a thinking or physical standpoint.

On my floor was another department that colored Marvel Comic books using Mac's and Adobe Illustrator. I told the manager from that department that I could make maps using Illustrator (self-taught in college) and we put in a bid and won a contract from the Library of Congress to do some graphic maps (less technical) for a series of books they were publishing on every country in the world. I was able to generate the maps for an entire book in a week, which was half the time the contract paid (good deal for company). I was glad this new contract worked out because I could tell our collective work on the FEMA contract was really sub-par and I thought we could lose that contract.

So at the end of the year it comes time for reviews and "performance" raises. I rate out at a very high level and I get the minimum raise. The same raise they give the two newer guys who rated out mediocre. Being 23 years old, I didn't have much of a filter. I was livid and I went back to my station, typed up my resignation letter telling the manager he was a fool and that they would lose BOTH contracts, one becuase the work was sub-par, and the other because they wouldn't be able to find a suitable replacement for me (arrogant, yes, but also accurate because I don't think there were many people who knew how to do this kind of work). Two months later I became a golf pro.

A couple years later I ran into a guy from the engineering firm who actually tried to learn my work for the LOC contract. He said he couldn't do it and they dropped the contract. Oh, and they lost the FEMA contract soon after I left.

I fell asleep at the end of the first paragraph. When did you all doze off?

At "Sorry"

[D1B]

I fell asleep at the end of the first paragraph. When did you all doze off?

I made it through the second.

[Chizzang]

What is fascinating when you go find the articles regarding this company and THAT decision - is the responses from the readership in the comments section of the articles...

The hatred and vitriol are astounding - quite literally HATE mail
It comes across as fear - god help us all if it actually works..!!! - burn the witches

If he runs it into the ground and fails so what - Capitalism wins or whatever...
But somehow if his company survives and becomes successful the fear that this could seep into the minds of the poor and down trodden losers - what then..!!!

The whole thing is hilarious
The market will do what the market does
and it'll either work or it won't and we won;t know until we know...

But for the love of all that's Holy lets stop with the vitriol and hatred

[CAA Flagship]

What is fascinating when you go find the articles regarding this company and THAT decision - is the responses from the readership in the comments section of the articles...

The hatred and vitriol are astounding - quite literally HATE mail
It comes across as fear - god help us all if it actually works..!!! - burn the witches

If he runs it into the ground and fails so what - Capitalism wins or whatever...
But somehow if his company survives and becomes successful the fear that this could seep into the minds of the poor and down trodden losers - what then..!!!

The whole thing is hilarious
The market will do what the market does
and it'll either work or it won't and we won;t know until we know...

But for the love of all that's Holy lets stop with the vitriol and hatred

You talkin' to me?

[Chizzang]

What is fascinating when you go find the articles regarding this company and THAT decision - is the responses from the readership in the comments section of the articles...

The hatred and vitriol are astounding - quite literally HATE mail
It comes across as fear - god help us all if it actually works..!!! - burn the witches

If he runs it into the ground and fails so what - Capitalism wins or whatever...
But somehow if his company survives and becomes successful the fear that this could seep into the minds of the poor and down trodden losers - what then..!!!

The whole thing is hilarious
The market will do what the market does
and it'll either work or it won't and we won;t know until we know...

But for the love of all that's Holy lets stop with the vitriol and hatred

You talkin' to me?

Nope...
I've (pleasantly) discovered that you're actually kind of funny



GATW used to be funny... I'm not sure what happened
You've been filling in nicely - in his absence - thank you

[CAA Flagship]

You talkin' to me?

Nope...
I've (pleasantly) discovered that you're actually kind of funny



GATW used to be funny... I'm not sure what happened
You've been filling in nicely - in his absence - thank you

GATW picked up a case of botulism. He got some bad meat in the can. He'll be OK in a week or so.

[Chizzang]

Nope...
I've (pleasantly) discovered that you're actually kind of funny



GATW used to be funny... I'm not sure what happened
You've been filling in nicely - in his absence - thank you

GATW picked up a case of botulism. He got some bad meat in the can. He'll be OK in a week or so.

See ^ this GTAW DO YOU SEE (that's funny)

[houndawg]

Because of the inequity of rewarding entry level positions over seniority and the likelihood of finding a better job.

This is one of my biggest complaints about minimum wage increases in that it hampers raises to more deserving people who have been with me longer.

I don't know how much experienced is gained by working at this company, but I do know that

1) Everyone is replaceable

and

2) They'd be stupid at throwing away decent paying jobs without the solid chance of taking an equal if not better position elsewhere.

Sorry for the long story, but...

My first job out of college was as a cartographer making $19,000 a year. We had a contract with FEMA to draw flood maps, one of three engineering firms that shared the contract. I came out of college with a decent amount of practice in manual cartography (not much GIS or CAD at that time) and I quickly learned the job and actually became a reviewer of other people's work. After 6 months, they hired two new guys and I helped train them, but it was clear they just weren't getting it. They couldn't handle the work from a thinking or physical standpoint.

On my floor was another department that colored Marvel Comic books using Mac's and Adobe Illustrator. I told the manager from that department that I could make maps using Illustrator (self-taught in college) and we put in a bid and won a contract from the Library of Congress to do some graphic maps (less technical) for a series of books they were publishing on every country in the world. I was able to generate the maps for an entire book in a week, which was half the time the contract paid (good deal for company). I was glad this new contract worked out because I could tell our collective work on the FEMA contract was really sub-par and I thought we could lose that contract.

So at the end of the year it comes time for reviews and "performance" raises. I rate out at a very high level and I get the minimum raise. The same raise they give the two newer guys who rated out mediocre. Being 23 years old, I didn't have much of a filter. I was livid and I went back to my station, typed up my resignation letter telling the manager he was a fool and that they would lose BOTH contracts, one becuase the work was sub-par, and the other because they wouldn't be able to find a suitable replacement for me (arrogant, yes, but also accurate because I don't think there were many people who knew how to do this kind of work). Two months later I became a golf pro.

A couple years later I ran into a guy from the engineering firm who actually tried to learn my work for the LOC contract. He said he couldn't do it and they dropped the contract. Oh, and they lost the FEMA contract soon after I left.

I walked six miles to school in knee deep snow. Uphill both ways.

[clenz]

Not sure on the qualification part, but keep a record of your OT. When the salary discussion hits again, you want to include your historical overtime pay in the equation for negotiating your salary. So if you are making $10K per year plus $1k in OT, you should ask for at least $11k. But if more OT is expected, it should probably be more like $12k. Salary status may also bump you into bonus category, or increase your bonus.

Agreed with CAA on expectations of going exempt or salaried (though it may or may not be your choice at one point). Whether you are eligible to be an exempt employee, it all depends on your specific duties. Title has little to do with it since I can call anyone I want a manger or VP but that means squat at certain companies.

With respect to being paid for stuff done outside of work, the answer is you are supposed to be compensated for it but employer needs to know you are doing it for you to be paid. That being said watch out about doing too much OT without permission. While you must be paid for it, you can be disciplined for doing too much OT because it costs the company extra money for it. It sounds stupid to discipline someone for doing extra work but when it costs a company 50% more for that work to be done, it can be understandable from the Company's part.

I'm not making a big fuss about the stuff I do outside of work for reasons that JSO laid out, kind of. I want my branch to do well. Things have been rocky the last few years and I have a very clear vision for what I want to have happen to right the ship. I have no problem replying to e-mails to other employees at night or getting back to a customer checking stock of a part, warranty of a unit, or quoting orders. I can VPN to my work computer in a matter of seconds and it takes me seconds to do each task. The reality is there are only 3 of us at my branch - myself, my inside sales guy, and my delivery driver. Due to this myself and my inside sales guy spend probably half our day most days working in the warehouse checking in semi loads of things, sending PO's out, putting freight away, pulling orders, loading the delivery truck, and honestly driving deliveries ourselves. We are open 6:30 AM through 4:30 PM. I would bet due to being such a small staff there is only one person at the branch on their own probably 4-5 hours a day (granted 1 hour of that is from 7-8 when our driver is gone on his route and my inside guy is alone until I get there at 8 and another 1.5 is from 3-4:30 when I'm the only one there. This our driver is on vacation so I pulled a counter guy from another location to fill in at the counter all week and I've averaged 300ish miles driving per day this week and have another 200-300 tomorrow to do.

It's because of all of the extra work I do at work that I don't have a problem doing some of it at home. It's what a "good employee" does to make sure their successful, and their branch/company is successful. I don't do it for recognition - though management can track when I log into the VPN and track what I'm doing on our server...writing/quoting orders, invoicing customers, adjusting orders to fit our routes, etc... As much as I do it because it's what I feel needs to be done, I want to show that I am willing to do what it takes to get the job done.

The salary thing has come up because we really need a 4th guy - another driver/warehouse manager - to take care of that side of it. However, the sales "aren't there" to support another guy...but we can't support more sales properly without a 4th guy - something upper management doesn't realize because they are located an hour and a half a way and I always find a way to get things done with 3 even if it sucks. They are starting to get on my back because my inside guy and myself are averaging 48-50 hours per week. The last 3 weeks I've been working 6:45-5 pretty much every day. Long of it short there've been words exchanged as to why that OT is needed and how another guy would cut the OT out...anyway...I have a feeling they want myself (and the inside guy) on salary to cut the OT possibility from us.

I don't quite understand who is/isn't exempt and all of that, and since they aren't pushing it too hard yet it tells me the cost savings isn't big enough at this point to force it on us OR the amount of "labor" we do around the warehouse and driving keeps us from being exempt and they are trying to get us to accept it without being able to force us too.

[Ibanez]

I disagree. I only work from home when it's the work day(like today 8-4) OR it's something really important. Aside from that, once I leave the office, I don't care. When I get home, the last thing I want to do is work. I'm salaried but that doesn't mean the firm gets me 24/7. If that want that access, I need more money. I'm working this weekend on a proposal and will get paid for it. It's a special circumstance and ordinarily I wouldn't do it. But, the proposal must be in by Monday morning.

[clenz]

I disagree. I only work from home when it's the work day(like today 8-4) OR it's something really important. Aside from that, once I leave the office, I don't care. When I get home, the last thing I want to do is work. I'm salaried but that doesn't mean the firm gets me 24/7. If that want that access, I need more money. I'm working this weekend on a proposal and will get paid for it. It's a special circumstance and ordinarily I wouldn't do it. But, the proposal must be in by Monday morning.

I'm not saying it takes precedence - it can and will wait until McKenna is asleep and the house is mostly picked up and TBH is off to bed. At that point I have no cable, no netflix right now, and an XBONE with 2 games....So, by 9 PM I'm pretty well looking for shit to do.

[CID1990]

I disagree. I only work from home when it's the work day(like today 8-4) OR it's something really important. Aside from that, once I leave the office, I don't care. When I get home, the last thing I want to do is work. I'm salaried but that doesn't mean the firm gets me 24/7. If that want that access, I need more money. I'm working this weekend on a proposal and will get paid for it. It's a special circumstance and ordinarily I wouldn't do it. But, the proposal must be in by Monday morning.

im the same way - both in police work and in what i currently do you have to take the job off with your work shoes or it will kill you

when i was a cop i used to tell my subordinates to get as far away from the job as possible on their days off - and dont work all those off duty jobs. if you cant survive on your base salary then find another job

i was diagnosed with PTSD after leaving law enforcement even after following all my own advice. the guys who live and breathe that job are all heading for early graves

my new job has me on call 24/7, but it also allows me to have my deputies fill in for me

plus I dont have people trying to fight me, i dont get piss balloons thrown at me, and though i still get the occasional dead body it is usually already on ice in the morgue instead of dismembered or hanging from the garage ceiling

the pay is better too

[89Hen]

I walked six miles to school in knee deep snow. Uphill both ways.

Great observation as usual. Next time at least read it if you want to respond.

[89Hen]

once I leave the office, I don't care. When I get home, the last thing I want to do is work.

When I get home, the last thing I want to do is work too, but that's not reality for many careers these days.

[Chizzang]

I disagree. I only work from home when it's the work day(like today 8-4) OR it's something really important. Aside from that, once I leave the office, I don't care. When I get home, the last thing I want to do is work. I'm salaried but that doesn't mean the firm gets me 24/7. If that want that access, I need more money. I'm working this weekend on a proposal and will get paid for it. It's a special circumstance and ordinarily I wouldn't do it. But, the proposal must be in by Monday morning.

im the same way - both in police work and in what i currently do you have to take the job off with your work shoes or it will kill you

when i was a cop i used to tell my subordinates to get as far away from the job as possible on their days off - and dont work all those off duty jobs. if you cant survive on your base salary then find another job

i was diagnosed with PTSD after leaving law enforcement even after following all my own advice. the guys who live and breathe that job are all heading for early graves

my new job has me on call 24/7, but it also allows me to have my deputies fill in for me

plus I dont have people trying to fight me, i dont get piss balloons thrown at me, and though i still get the occasional dead body it is usually already on ice in the morgue instead of dismembered or hanging from the garage ceiling

the pay is better too

I could see ex-military guys enjoying a police gig in a town like Redmond
50,000 residents / 99% employment / white people with kids everywhere
Fancy squad cars

The guys working the late shift park their cars sidelong in the all night grocery store parking lot
get out of their cars and stand and talk drinking coffee that the girls in the store bring out to them



Occasionally they jump in their cars and race off some code 2 thing happens
Usually like a garage break in or college kids naked in the public pool

Good times...

Now CITY COPS that job is not good - and is absolutely killing the officers with stress
I hope the money is good because the job is a heart condition death sentence

[houndawg]

I walked six miles to school in knee deep snow. Uphill both ways.

Great observation as usual. Next time at least read it if you want to respond.

I kept falling asleep.