The Problem with Holy Books

[89Hen]

I don't know or care about Unitarians. What are they?

You wouldn't like them.

Andy probably would like them. They're more like a social club than a church... which makes it similar to the Catholic Church in many ways.

[D1B]

Parents who willingly allow their children to be unattended with a known class of pedophiles and sexual deviants.

Holy broadness, batman, talk about swinging for the fences with that one. If we're going to now keep kids away from any class of people who have abused children well have to construct individual bubbles. I mean, pedophiles and sexual deviants have been found in the clergy, school teachers, sports coaches, next-door neighbors, postal service workers, the Subway dude, other kids, Charlie Sheen, the Republican party, families in Utah, British film actors, the Democratic party, NFL players, Northern Iowa fans, police officers, firemen, etc, etc, etc. That's a lot of classes of people right there.

Yes, its inflammatory and maybe broad, but you're missing the key differences between all the groups mentioned.

The catholic hierarchy are all men who have agreed to a life of celibacy. This fact alone should give every rational person great caution because by default they are sexual deviants and quite frankly, nuts. Thousands upon thousands are sexual predators (fiercely protected by the Church) unlike Delaware grads.

[89Hen]

Concordat. Brawk.

Forcing religion on your children is child abuse.

[D1B]

Forcing religion on your children is child abuse.

Forcing religion on your children with the threat of punishment or damnation in hell is child abuse.



You commit a heinous act every day.

[D1B]

Forcing religion on your children is child abuse.

Deuteronomy 17
If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

Forcing religion on your children is child abuse.

[OL FU]

meh



























What the hell does meh mean anyway

[89Hen]

You're not doing anything to prove me wrong. You're a parrot.

[D1B]

You're not doing anything to prove me wrong. You're a parrot.

Of course I'm not. People deep in cults are not malleable.

You'll never understand you're part of cult and criminal organization which makes you a criminal.

[JohnStOnge]

That was a well written, and well though out, article.

Except that the author clearly doesn't understand the way the Bible works. You know the New Testament vs. Old Testament thing.

Or maybe the author does understand the way it works and just chooses to ignore it. That's more likely, I think.

[JohnStOnge]

There also is this apparent need on the part of the author to draw some kind of equivalency between what is going on with Islam right now and what is going on with Christianity right now. That's pretty bad.

[kalm]

That was a well written, and well though out, article.

Except that the author clearly doesn't understand the way the Bible works. You know the New Testament vs. Old Testament thing.

Or maybe the author does understand the way it works and just chooses to ignore it. That's more likely, I think.

I've heard this excuse repeated quite a bit. So do we get to throw out the entire OT? The ten commandments (Judge Roy Moore's favorite courtroom inspirational poster)? Or do you get to cherry pick which parts count?

And why do they continue to print both books. Maybe they should be separate publications?

[D1B]

You wouldn't like them.

Andy probably would like them. They're more like a social club than a church... which makes it similar to the Catholic Church in many ways.

Unitarians are no where near as proficient in raping children and stealing money.

[D1B]

That was a well written, and well though out, article.

Except that the author clearly doesn't understand the way the Bible works. You know the New Testament vs. Old Testament thing.

Or maybe the author does understand the way it works and just chooses to ignore it. That's more likely, I think.

Read the NT, Dumbass.

“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” — Matthew 5:18-19

“It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17)

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17)

“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law” (John7:19)

Source - Jesus

[JohnStOnge]

Except that the author clearly doesn't understand the way the Bible works. You know the New Testament vs. Old Testament thing.

Or maybe the author does understand the way it works and just chooses to ignore it. That's more likely, I think.

I've heard this excuse repeated quite a bit. So do we get to throw out the entire OT? The ten commandments (Judge Roy Moore's favorite courtroom inspirational poster)? Or do you get to cherry pick which parts count?

And why do they continue to print both books. Maybe they should be separate publications?

It's not an "excuse." It's the way it works and since you were probably raised Christian you should know that. In Christianity it's all about what happened after Jesus came in terms of what you're supposed to do. And if you read the new Testament it's very pacifist. In fact to me the biggest problem with REALLY following it is that you would not resist if someone comes to harm you. The Muslims would've taken over a long time ago because all the Christians would've just turned the other cheek. All the stories are about people doing sacrificial suffering. Getting crucified. Getting stoned to death. Being in prison. So on and so forth.

I would agree that Christians rarely REALLY follow the paradigm. But if they did being violent and aggressive would NOT be the problem.

The only thing I can think of in the New Testament that was kind of "violent" against people who offended God was the thing where the couple lied about how much they contributed and the Holy Spirit struck them both dead. But that was not God directing people to kill people. It was God killing people. As far as what Jesus and his followers actually did they just talked then took their punishment when people got pissed off at them for what they said.

Totally different thing with Muhammed. He was a military leader who went on wars of conquest and directed his followers to do some pretty nasty things.

Like this:

"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Koran (8:12)

You are not going to find the slightest hint of that sort of thing in the New Testament of the Bible. Neither Jesus nor any of the disciples who wrote books of the Testament came anywhere CLOSE to saying anything like that. And there is plenty more of that sort of thing in the Koran.

Dislike Christianity if you wish. But this thing where these eggheads feel compelled to act like the problem we have with Islam right now is comparable to some kind of problem with Christianity or that the underlying basic natures of the two belief systems are similar is ridiculous One, Christianity, really IS a religion of peace if you actually follow it according to the paradigm you're supposed to follow (i.e., follow Jesus). The other is a religion of violence unless and until everybody is converted. Then if someone is converted and they screw up it's violence again. That's Islam's fundamental nature.

[Skjellyfetti]

And if you read the new Testament it's very pacifist.

Depends on what you want to emphasize and what verses you choose to highlight

Matthew 10:34

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

[kalm]

I've heard this excuse repeated quite a bit. So do we get to throw out the entire OT? The ten commandments (Judge Roy Moore's favorite courtroom inspirational poster)? Or do you get to cherry pick which parts count?

And why do they continue to print both books. Maybe they should be separate publications?

It's not an "excuse." It's the way it works and since you were probably raised Christian you should know that. In Christianity it's all about what happened after Jesus came in terms of what you're supposed to do. And if you read the new Testament it's very pacifist. In fact to me the biggest problem with REALLY following it is that you would not resist if someone comes to harm you. The Muslims would've taken over a long time ago because all the Christians would've just turned the other cheek. All the stories are about people doing sacrificial suffering. Getting crucified. Getting stoned to death. Being in prison. So on and so forth.

I would agree that Christians rarely REALLY follow the paradigm. But if they did being violent and aggressive would NOT be the problem.

The only thing I can think of in the New Testament that was kind of "violent" against people who offended God was the thing where the couple lied about how much they contributed and the Holy Spirit struck them both dead. But that was not God directing people to kill people. It was God killing people. As far as what Jesus and his followers actually did they just talked then took their punishment when people got pissed off at them for what they said.

Totally different thing with Muhammed. He was a military leader who went on wars of conquest and directed his followers to do some pretty nasty things.

Like this:

"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Koran (8:12)

You are not going to find the slightest hint of that sort of thing in the New Testament of the Bible. Neither Jesus nor any of the disciples who wrote books of the Testament came anywhere CLOSE to saying anything like that. And there is plenty more of that sort of thing in the Koran.

Dislike Christianity if you wish. But this thing where these eggheads feel compelled to act like the problem we have with Islam right now is comparable to some kind of problem with Christianity or that the underlying basic natures of the two belief systems are similar is ridiculous One, Christianity, really IS a religion of peace if you actually follow it according to the paradigm you're supposed to follow (i.e., follow Jesus). The other is a religion of violence unless and until everybody is converted. Then if someone is converted and they screw up it's violence again. That's Islam's fundamental nature.

1) You failed to answer any of my questions.

2) I don't think the point of the article was to make the two equal in their call to violence. Besides, I made it clear in the OP (with the sarcastic caveat that) that wasn't my intent here.

Disappointing that not one person appears to be interested in countering her statements. 89 came close with his "most Christians are silently great" post (thank you), but that's been it.

[andy7171]

Are Unitarians like the Charasmatics? Because I ca't stand those fuckers.

[kalm]

Are Unitarians like the Charasmatics? Because I ca't stand those fuckers.

*i

*n

And no.

[ASUG8]

Are Unitarians like the Charasmatics? Because I ca't stand those fuckers.

You should try being Episcopal. It's like Diet Catholic - all of the pomp and circumstance with none of the guilt or confession.

[89Hen]

Unitarians are no where near as proficient in

anything. Lazy hippies.

[kalm]

Unitarians are no where near as proficient in

anything. Lazy hippies.

But more Christlike than Catholics.

[andy7171]

Are Unitarians like the Charasmatics? Because I ca't stand those fuckers.

You should try being Episcopal. It's like Diet Catholic - all of the pomp and circumstance with none of the guilt or confession.

I don't get the guilt except when it comes just before confession, and when its over, it's gone.

[89Hen]

anything. Lazy hippies.

But more Christlike than Catholics.

Plums are green. Emoticon

[Chizzang]

Watching this thread has been Hilarious...
Firstly Religions are handed down like table manners or bad teeth
Most people come by their Religion honestly - it was given to them
I was raised Episcopal (Catholics who forgot their Latin and admitted some priests were gay)
I'm lucky because its a kind of Hippie Catholicism
That's easy to walk away from when you start thinking for yourself
Our Pastor encouraged me to "Love and do what I will" straight from St. Augustine hippie teachings
When I asked questions he couldn't answer he said I should look elsewhere

Telling you what God is thinking
Telling you what God is doing
Telling you what God wants
Telling you what God has done
Telling you what God will do

If you're the kind of person that needs somebody else to define what God is and what God wants
Then good luck and choose wisely... But that is essentially what Religion is at its core

Religion is = Defining God in Human Terms
And I'm not interested in that because NOBODY KNOWS MORE ABOUT GOD THAN ME...
and that's just a FACT

[andy7171]

Well that wraps it up Cleets knows all. And also looks down on everyone from his perch on Mt Rainer.