Election 2016: Trump vs Clinton

[Ibanez]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0GFRcFm-aY[/youtube]

[Wedgebuster]

Hillary could beat Trump from jail.

Billy Carter could beat Trump in the general.

Here is a link to the current betting odds:

http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/ ... ids=791149

Check out the odds of "Trump's Manhood"

[YoUDeeMan]

To be clear I really don't like Hillary. I would much prefer Bernie to get the nomination.

And I agree, the 90s were pretty sweet. If Trump only wants to roll America back that far I wont complain.

Excellent...then I won't put you into Mr. Infinity's column (and even he might have a shot at seeing the light).

But, you sure sounded like a Clinton barking dog with your trumped up questions.

[GannonFan]

Sure, and if you rewind to when Trump announced his candidacy back at the start you would have the same comments said then about him - he's an amateur, he'll choke on his own foot, he's boorish and the other candidates will wipe the floor with him because they are shrewd politicians. Of course, living in the present, we can see that Trump, somehow, overcame all of that and is the presumptive nominee for a party that the ruling elites of that party did everything to try to stop him. So yeah, sure, we can all see how this will play out, just like everyone of knew that Trump didn't have a prayer to last longer than a month or so in the Republican nomination race.

You cannot tell me that winning a general election isn't much different than winning the nomination in the Republican party. Winning the two are different animals especially considering how divisive the immigration issue has become.

Honestly, when Trump first entered the race I didn't take him all that seriously. He seemed like a Tom Tancredo with more personality. But since the early days he has pushed the envelope more than any candidate has before. You cannot tell me that Trump hasn't raised the bar and said things that will eat him alive in this time of identity politics. The Hispanic vote absolutely hurt the Republicans in 2008 and 2012, and it's going to be worse with Trump.

Yes, in this case, the general election is not going to be all that fundamentally different than the Republican primary. Trump isn't the normal Republican candidate - he didn't cater to the far-right of the Republican party and he didn't cater to the whacky socially right side of the party either. Heck, he pretty much turned his back on the Tea Party element as well. If a GOP candidate came out of the primaries playing just to that small minority of the GOP then I'd agree with you, it would be vastly different getting into the general election where those GOP power brokers have little power on a national scale. Trump, however, basically ran as a social moderate so he has far less baggage than a religious zealot like Cruz would've carried. And he might even be to the left of Hillary when it comes to trade as Sanders has made his biggest inroads on her on that front. Trump's biggest wins came in places where the tea party doesn't have a lot of strength and he also won big in places with open primaries - he was most appealing to the non-core GOP voter. In a normal election with a normal candidate, I'd agree with you, he would need to pivot significantly as he goes into the general election. But Trump isn't that normal candidate.

Oh, and lastly, although there is certainly identity politics going around today, the Presidency is still always about what it's always been about - the personality of the people running. It's simply that, who do they like more. The more Trump is on the scene, the more people talk about him, the better he seems to come off. Heck, Anderson Cooper of all people could be on his campaign staff before this is all over, so if Trump can win over him why not a lot of other people too?

[Ibanez]

Hillary could beat Trump from jail.

Billy Carter could beat Trump in the general.

Here is a link to the current betting odds:

http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/ ... ids=791149

Check out the odds of "Trump's Manhood"

3/1 Odds that is' 9.01" or larger.

[Pwns]

Yes, in this case, the general election is not going to be all that fundamentally different than the Republican primary. Trump isn't the normal Republican candidate - he didn't cater to the far-right of the Republican party and he didn't cater to the whacky socially right side of the party either. Heck, he pretty much turned his back on the Tea Party element as well. If a GOP candidate came out of the primaries playing just to that small minority of the GOP then I'd agree with you, it would be vastly different getting into the general election where those GOP power brokers have little power on a national scale. Trump, however, basically ran as a social moderate so he has far less baggage than a religious zealot like Cruz would've carried. And he might even be to the left of Hillary when it comes to trade as Sanders has made his biggest inroads on her on that front. Trump's biggest wins came in places where the tea party doesn't have a lot of strength and he also won big in places with open primaries - he was most appealing to the non-core GOP voter. In a normal election with a normal candidate, I'd agree with you, he would need to pivot significantly as he goes into the general election. But Trump isn't that normal candidate.

Oh, and lastly, although there is certainly identity politics going around today, the Presidency is still always about what it's always been about - the personality of the people running. It's simply that, who do they like more. The more Trump is on the scene, the more people talk about him, the better he seems to come off. Heck, Anderson Cooper of all people could be on his campaign staff before this is all over, so if Trump can win over him why not a lot of other people too?

Trump has suggested banning Muslims and has been the most anti-immigration candidate the GOP has had probably going back at least a long way. I disagree completely that he uses moderate rhetoric to win the election. I'm not a big multiculturalism enthusiast and am probably center-right on immigration, but the crap he says makes me cringe. And there's the thing about punishing women for having abortions. Can you honestly tell me you'd ever imagine a candidate for the GOP nomination saying something like that? Again, I'm hardly a pro-abortion zealot but that's just not smart on any level to say that.

[DSUrocks07]

You cannot tell me that winning a general election isn't much different than winning the nomination in the Republican party. Winning the two are different animals especially considering how divisive the immigration issue has become.

Honestly, when Trump first entered the race I didn't take him all that seriously. He seemed like a Tom Tancredo with more personality. But since the early days he has pushed the envelope more than any candidate has before. You cannot tell me that Trump hasn't raised the bar and said things that will eat him alive in this time of identity politics. The Hispanic vote absolutely hurt the Republicans in 2008 and 2012, and it's going to be worse with Trump.

Yes, in this case, the general election is not going to be all that fundamentally different than the Republican primary. Trump isn't the normal Republican candidate - he didn't cater to the far-right of the Republican party and he didn't cater to the whacky socially right side of the party either. Heck, he pretty much turned his back on the Tea Party element as well. If a GOP candidate came out of the primaries playing just to that small minority of the GOP then I'd agree with you, it would be vastly different getting into the general election where those GOP power brokers have little power on a national scale. Trump, however, basically ran as a social moderate so he has far less baggage than a religious zealot like Cruz would've carried. And he might even be to the left of Hillary when it comes to trade as Sanders has made his biggest inroads on her on that front. Trump's biggest wins came in places where the tea party doesn't have a lot of strength and he also won big in places with open primaries - he was most appealing to the non-core GOP voter. In a normal election with a normal candidate, I'd agree with you, he would need to pivot significantly as he goes into the general election. But Trump isn't that normal candidate.

Oh, and lastly, although there is certainly identity politics going around today, the Presidency is still always about what it's always been about - the personality of the people running. It's simply that, who do they like more. The more Trump is on the scene, the more people talk about him, the better he seems to come off. Heck, Anderson Cooper of all people could be on his campaign staff before this is all over, so if Trump can win over him why not a lot of other people too?

Anderson Cooper for Trump's press secretary

(I'm gonna spend the next couple weeks just throwing names out there guys, be forewarned)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[GannonFan]

Yes, in this case, the general election is not going to be all that fundamentally different than the Republican primary. Trump isn't the normal Republican candidate - he didn't cater to the far-right of the Republican party and he didn't cater to the whacky socially right side of the party either. Heck, he pretty much turned his back on the Tea Party element as well. If a GOP candidate came out of the primaries playing just to that small minority of the GOP then I'd agree with you, it would be vastly different getting into the general election where those GOP power brokers have little power on a national scale. Trump, however, basically ran as a social moderate so he has far less baggage than a religious zealot like Cruz would've carried. And he might even be to the left of Hillary when it comes to trade as Sanders has made his biggest inroads on her on that front. Trump's biggest wins came in places where the tea party doesn't have a lot of strength and he also won big in places with open primaries - he was most appealing to the non-core GOP voter. In a normal election with a normal candidate, I'd agree with you, he would need to pivot significantly as he goes into the general election. But Trump isn't that normal candidate.

Oh, and lastly, although there is certainly identity politics going around today, the Presidency is still always about what it's always been about - the personality of the people running. It's simply that, who do they like more. The more Trump is on the scene, the more people talk about him, the better he seems to come off. Heck, Anderson Cooper of all people could be on his campaign staff before this is all over, so if Trump can win over him why not a lot of other people too?

Trump has suggested banning Muslims and has been the most anti-immigration candidate the GOP has had probably going back at least a long way. I disagree completely that he uses moderate rhetoric to win the election. I'm not a big multiculturalism enthusiast and am probably center-right on immigration, but the crap he says makes me cringe. And there's the thing about punishing women for having abortions. Can you honestly tell me you'd ever imagine a candidate for the GOP nomination saying something like that? Again, I'm hardly a pro-abortion zealot but that's just not smart on any level to say that.

Geez, the Cruz-hurt is real. I think he's been the most anti-illegal immigration candidate in a long time, but I don't think he's necessarily no immigration whatsoever. His anti-Muslim stance on immigration probably wouldn't happen anyway, but you see other countries doing similar things so who knows. And he's not for punishing women for having abortions - I think the question asked to him was if abortions were illegal, would a woman then have to be punished for having one. But see, that's the thing about Trump, he said that, and really you don't hear much about it anymore. Nothing bad really sticks with him and the more elites criticize him the stronger his appeal gets to the electorate. As for his moderate stance, I think he came across pretty moderate with the whole trans bathroom thing. He's an East Coast, big city Republican - you can't get much more moderate in the GOP than that.

[BDKJMU]

Why does Hillary and the Democrats not want a secure border?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

We do. Just smart enough know that a wall is a huge waste of money, and will be ineffective anyways.

And, we know that immigration is a net benefit to the country.



Why do Republicans not want a secure environment? Why do they ignore climate change?

LEGAL

[BDKJMU]

Yes, in this case, the general election is not going to be all that fundamentally different than the Republican primary. Trump isn't the normal Republican candidate - he didn't cater to the far-right of the Republican party and he didn't cater to the whacky socially right side of the party either. Heck, he pretty much turned his back on the Tea Party element as well. If a GOP candidate came out of the primaries playing just to that small minority of the GOP then I'd agree with you, it would be vastly different getting into the general election where those GOP power brokers have little power on a national scale. Trump, however, basically ran as a social moderate so he has far less baggage than a religious zealot like Cruz would've carried. And he might even be to the left of Hillary when it comes to trade as Sanders has made his biggest inroads on her on that front. Trump's biggest wins came in places where the tea party doesn't have a lot of strength and he also won big in places with open primaries - he was most appealing to the non-core GOP voter. In a normal election with a normal candidate, I'd agree with you, he would need to pivot significantly as he goes into the general election. But Trump isn't that normal candidate.

Oh, and lastly, although there is certainly identity politics going around today, the Presidency is still always about what it's always been about - the personality of the people running. It's simply that, who do they like more. The more Trump is on the scene, the more people talk about him, the better he seems to come off. Heck, Anderson Cooper of all people could be on his campaign staff before this is all over, so if Trump can win over him why not a lot of other people too?

Trump has suggested banning Muslims and has been the most anti-immigration candidate the GOP has had probably going back at least a long way. I disagree completely that he uses moderate rhetoric to win the election. I'm not a big multiculturalism enthusiast and am probably center-right on immigration, but the crap he says makes me cringe. And there's the thing about punishing women for having abortions. Can you honestly tell me you'd ever imagine a candidate for the GOP nomination saying something like that? Again, I'm hardly a pro-abortion zealot but that's just not smart on any level to say that.

The only time he came out against any legal immigration was in the wake of the Paris terrorist attacks he suggested temporarily banning immigrants from certain muslim counties until the proper vetting procedures were in place (those procedures aren't).

He has been the most anti ILLEGAL candidate the GOP has had probably going back at least a long way.

[BDKJMU]

The thing is, Trump in so many ways is no conservative, but the libtards have been attacking him worse than any other republican POTUS candidate ever (along with some on the right).

[BDKJMU]

Remember 2 months ago- they all pledged to support the eventual nominee:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anj2C_WggyE[/youtube]

[hitchinaride]

The debates ALONE are worth this election year! LOL!

[∞∞∞]

I guess it's official then...again.

[youtube]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bVwh8PW6r88[/youtube]

My favorite:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01A6-qQjqI8[/youtube]

[JohnStOnge]

I guess this is the place to post this. Erick Erickson puts it well:

http://theresurgent.com/where-should-the-line-be-drawn/

If Republicans in 2016 are unwilling to draw a line and refuse to support Trump with what we know about him, I do not find it plausible that the GOP would reject another David Duke should he ever advance to Trump’s position. The Republicans of 2016 are not the Republicans of 1990 who put their integrity ahead of their party.

Some Republicans may decide it is time to be a team player, but I will put my country before my party and decline to help the voters in this country commit national suicide. For those who lament the loss of the Supreme Court with Hillary Clinton’s now inevitable re-election, I would counter that it is obvious the United States now has far bigger problems than judges.

[JohnStOnge]

And hopefully the Obama Administration will see to it that the Democrats don't run into issues because of Hillary's e mail account problems. I think the chances are good we can count on that since they can see that a friggin' complete nut case has just gotten the Republican nomination. But it's not done until it's done.

[JohnStOnge]

Here's one that I think probably over estimates the effect but I hope it proves true:

http://www.politicususa.com/2016/04/25/ ... -wins.html

The poll contained some numbers that should terrify Republicans. 40% of Republicans polled said that they would not support the party’s nominee if Donald Trump wins. 25% of the anti-Trump Republican vote would consider voting for a third party candidate. 19% of the never Trump Republicans would vote for Hillary Clinton, and 18% would stay home and not vote at all. By gender, 10% of men, and 9% of Republican women would vote for Clinton over Trump. 18% of very likely Republican general election voters would support Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump.

I might end up in the 18%. Well, technically not because I'm not a Republican. But If Louisiana is in play I'm voting for the Democratic candidate. Otherwise I will try to find a third party candidate to vote for to make some kind of statement. Either way it'll be the first time in my eligible-to-vote life that I will not vote for the Republican candidate in a Presidential election.

[JohnStOnge]

Did I mention that that's a really tacky looking hat?

[YoUDeeMan]

Either way it'll be the first time in my eligible-to-vote life that I will not vote for the Republican candidate in a Presidential election.

And you say you aren't a Republican.

Since you like facts...can you name, without looking it up, the last 5 statement making third party candidates? How'd they, and their supporters, work out?



Just for the record...a TON of Hillary supporters, you know that ones who started the Birther and Muslin thing...said they wouldn't vote for Obama. Turns out...they held their noses and did just that.

And they won!

Hilarity a better choice than Trump...you've lost your reasoning abilities.

[UNI88]

Hillary by at least 10 points...she will win every state Obama won in 2008 and then one or two more. It's going to be the biggest shellacking of a presidential election since Reagan and Mondale. Thanks, Trump voters.

Hold on a second ... you're blaming Trump voters for Trump? If establishment Republicans want to know who to blame for Trump they should look in a mirror. The Republican establishment has taken for granted many conservative and moderate voters and these voters have gotten angrier and angrier. They've finally had enough of being ignored and it's their fault they voted for Trump? We wouldn't be in this situation if the establishment would have stopped paying lip service and listened earlier.

And based on Sanders' campaign, the Democratic Party isn't that far behind the Republicans.

[dbackjon]

We do. Just smart enough know that a wall is a huge waste of money, and will be ineffective anyways.

And, we know that immigration is a net benefit to the country.



Why do Republicans not want a secure environment? Why do they ignore climate change?

LEGAL

Wrong again.

[dbackjon]

Did I mention that that's a really tacky looking hat?

And made in China!!

[houndawg]

Hillary by at least 10 points...she will win every state Obama won in 2008 and then one or two more. It's going to be the biggest shellacking of a presidential election since Reagan and Mondale. Thanks, Trump voters.

Hold on a second ... you're blaming Trump voters for Trump? If establishment Republicans want to know who to blame for Trump they should look in a mirror. The Republican establishment has taken for granted many conservative and moderate voters and these voters have gotten angrier and angrier. They've finally had enough of being ignored and it's their fault they voted for Trump? We wouldn't be in this situation if the establishment would have stopped paying lip service and listened earlier.

And based on Sanders' campaign, the Democratic Party isn't that far behind the Republicans.

Why shouldn't they be taken for granted; we're talking about a hand-picked base of those dumb enough to believe that what is good for billionaires is good for them. I think its freaking hilarious.

[UNI88]

Hold on a second ... you're blaming Trump voters for Trump? If establishment Republicans want to know who to blame for Trump they should look in a mirror. The Republican establishment has taken for granted many conservative and moderate voters and these voters have gotten angrier and angrier. They've finally had enough of being ignored and it's their fault they voted for Trump? We wouldn't be in this situation if the establishment would have stopped paying lip service and listened earlier.

And based on Sanders' campaign, the Democratic Party isn't that far behind the Republicans.

Why shouldn't they be taken for granted; we're talking about a hand-picked base of those dumb enough to believe that what is good for billionaires is good for them. I think its freaking hilarious.

That's a pretty harsh but accurate description of Hillary's supporters.

[JohnStOnge]

CNN report today provides reason for some optimism. FBI Clinton e mail investigation reportedly nearing its end and US officials reportedly saying no evidence so far that Clinton knowingly violated the law.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/05/politics/ ... index.html

Sounds like there's a good chance that she won't be charged. If that happens Trump can rail all he wants on that subject and she can just do the typical Clinton political Jujutsu. There they go again. Making a big deal out things and lo and behold when all is said and done there's nothing there. So on and so forth.

And if it goes the other way and they DO charge her the Democrats will have plenty of time to adjust and just about anybody they field should be able to beat Trump in the general election. Sanders is up on Trump by 13.4 percentage points in the real clear politics average right now and the latest one has him up 16.

There's a little more reason to be hopeful now that the admittedly evil Democrats will be able to put this even more evil Trump monster to bed.

More potentially good news: Just heard a talking head say that the Republicans have only lost among White women once since the 1970s (the one time was Clinton, BTW, and Obama lost among White women both times) but Trump is behind among White women.