I Wonder if Obama Even Cares....

[Ivytalk]

That the country HE has presided over for 8 years is disintegrating before his eyes.

And that his divisive words and actions have accelerated that disintegration.

It's not just Obama. The media are at fault too. About twice as many Whites die from police gunfire as Blacks and when you look at the crime data including perceptions of victims with respect to races of their attackers it's clear that the somewhat disproportionate incidence of police shootings of Blacks could be due to the fact that Blacks are disproportionately involved in crime.

The media as well as politicians create the impression that it only happens to Blacks. At the very least they create the impression that it happens to Blacks more than anyone else and that there's this big thing with Police targeting Blacks more than anybody else just because they're Black.

The data simply do not support that outlook. I'm not saying it never happens but if it does it doesn't happen enough to be detectable in the overall data. The media and politicians have created a false impression that police are out there hunting Blacks and it's causing all sorts of problems.

Elect Trump, and that problem is solved!

[YoUDeeMan]

That the country HE has presided over for 8 years is disintegrating before his eyes.

And that his divisive words and actions have accelerated that disintegration.

It's not just Obama. The media are at fault too. About twice as many Whites die from police gunfire as Blacks and when you look at the crime data including perceptions of victims with respect to races of their attackers it's clear that the somewhat disproportionate incidence of police shootings of Blacks could be due to the fact that Blacks are disproportionately involved in crime.

The media as well as politicians create the impression that it only happens to Blacks. At the very least they create the impression that it happens to Blacks more than anyone else and that there's this big thing with Police targeting Blacks more than anybody else just because they're Black.

The data simply do not support that outlook. I'm not saying it never happens but if it does it doesn't happen enough to be detectable in the overall data. The media and politicians have created a false impression that police are out there hunting Blacks and it's causing all sorts of problems.

The media has also created a false impression that Hillary is the better candidate...and you fell for it.

[CitadelGrad]

I know Gary Johnson personally and thinks he's a great guy and a far better candidate than Trump or the Democrat shithead, but I won't vote for him. A vote for Gary Johnson is a vote for Hillary. No fucking way I will do anything that might benefit that bitch.

[89Hen]

You guys crack me up. I guarantee I'm more in the middle than 75% of you.

[kalm]

You guys crack me up. I guarantee I'm more in the middle than 75% of you.

Sure!

[89Hen]

You guys crack me up. I guarantee I'm more in the middle than 75% of you.

Sure!

You're one of the 75.

[CAA Flagship]

I know Gary Johnson personally and thinks he's a great guy and a far better candidate than Trump or the Democrat shithead, but I won't vote for him. A vote for Gary Johnson is a vote for Hillary. No fucking way I will do anything that might benefit that bitch.

This X1000

[OL FU]

Well I have a different take than a vote for Johnson is a vote for Hillary. I live in South Carolina which unless the world falls totally apart, is going to vote for Trump so I am freed up not to vote for him. (not that I would vote for him if that wasn't the case)

I have known for a long time that my politics aligns with libertarians. I have always been shy of voting that way because of the "waste my vote" concept. Additionally, many times the libertarian candidates do seem a little crazy and certainly a lot of their devotees seem a lot crazy. I voted for Ron Paul in the republican primaries each time he ran, but honestly might have had a difficult time voting for him for president because of that kinda crazy image that libertarians seem to give off.

So now I am sitting squarely in 2016. On the "who do you side with survey" (after taking the more extensive version) I am high 80% with Johnson, low 80% with Trump and about 50% with Clinton. So just taking that view point, I could easily justify voting for Trump. But the truth is if I was at 100% with Trump, I wouldn't vote for Trump. I have read all the stories from people that know him socially and say he is a reasonable, rational, calm, well meaning disciplined individual. Well unfortunately, I don't know that Trump and am not sure I believe a word of it. All I see is a mean spirited, temperamentally unsound, knowledge challenged individual with a childish attitude spending more time attacking those who criticize him that promoting rational reasons to vote for him. (ok, how was my JOS impression). On the other hand, even if I was 100% with Clinton, I wouldn't vote for her either. Whether you think she is a crook, or negligent or stupid, the email server shows she has an extreme lack of good judgment and is a liar ( and that isn't even the biggest issue with Hillary).

So, for the first time in a long time I will get to vote for the candidate that lines up with my political view. Other than the fact that I fear the next four years will be horrible under Trump or Clinton, I at least take comfort that I am not voting for either of the two parties that got us in the shape we are in today, nor am I voting for a billionaire (or wannabe billionaire depending on who you ask) that acts more like a two year old than my three year old granddaughter does.

[kalm]

Sure!

You're one of the 75.

I know that's what you think but as discussed before the majority of Americans poll substantially more progressive than they vote or what you think.

[DSUrocks07]

Well I have a different take than a vote for Johnson is a vote for Hillary. I live in South Carolina which unless the world falls totally apart, is going to vote for Trump so I am freed up not to vote for him. (not that I would vote for him if that wasn't the case)

I have known for a long time that my politics aligns with libertarians. I have always been shy of voting that way because of the "waste my vote" concept. Additionally, many times the libertarian candidates do seem a little crazy and certainly a lot of their devotees seem a lot crazy. I voted for Ron Paul in the republican primaries each time he ran, but honestly might have had a difficult time voting for him for president because of that kinda crazy image that libertarians seem to give off.

So now I am sitting squarely in 2016. On the "who do you side with survey" (after taking the more extensive version) I am high 80% with Johnson, low 80% with Trump and about 50% with Clinton. So just taking that view point, I could easily justify voting for Trump. But the truth is if I was at 100% with Trump, I wouldn't vote for Trump. I have read all the stories from people that know him socially and say he is a reasonable, rational, calm, well meaning disciplined individual. Well unfortunately, I don't know that Trump and am not sure I believe a word of it. All I see is a mean spirited, temperamentally unsound, knowledge challenged individual with a childish attitude spending more time attacking those who criticize him that promoting rational reasons to vote for him. (ok, how was my JOS impression). On the other hand, even if I was 100% with Clinton, I wouldn't vote for her either. Whether you think she is a crook, or negligent or stupid, the email server shows she has an extreme lack of good judgment and is a liar ( and that isn't even the biggest issue with Hillary).

So, for the first time in a long time I will get to vote for the candidate that lines up with my political view. Other than the fact that I fear the next four years will be horrible under Trump or Clinton, I at least take comfort that I am not voting for either of the two parties that got us in the shape we are in today, nor am I voting for a billionaire (or wannabe billionaire depending on who you ask) that acts more like a two year old than my three year old granddaughter does.

I'll probably end up voting for Johnson because Delaware is almost certainly in the Clinton column.

It's ironic, the Electoral College that people say prevents outsider parties from participating may actually help in garnering the numbers they need to qualify for federal funding.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[UNI88]

You guys crack me up. I guarantee I'm more in the middle than 75% of you.

88 vs. 89, who is more in the middle? What do you propose for a wager?

[UNI88]

Well I have a different take than a vote for Johnson is a vote for Hillary. I live in South Carolina which unless the world falls totally apart, is going to vote for Trump so I am freed up not to vote for him. (not that I would vote for him if that wasn't the case)

I have known for a long time that my politics aligns with libertarians. I have always been shy of voting that way because of the "waste my vote" concept. Additionally, many times the libertarian candidates do seem a little crazy and certainly a lot of their devotees seem a lot crazy. I voted for Ron Paul in the republican primaries each time he ran, but honestly might have had a difficult time voting for him for president because of that kinda crazy image that libertarians seem to give off.

So now I am sitting squarely in 2016. On the "who do you side with survey" (after taking the more extensive version) I am high 80% with Johnson, low 80% with Trump and about 50% with Clinton. So just taking that view point, I could easily justify voting for Trump. But the truth is if I was at 100% with Trump, I wouldn't vote for Trump. I have read all the stories from people that know him socially and say he is a reasonable, rational, calm, well meaning disciplined individual. Well unfortunately, I don't know that Trump and am not sure I believe a word of it. All I see is a mean spirited, temperamentally unsound, knowledge challenged individual with a childish attitude spending more time attacking those who criticize him that promoting rational reasons to vote for him. (ok, how was my JOS impression). On the other hand, even if I was 100% with Clinton, I wouldn't vote for her either. Whether you think she is a crook, or negligent or stupid, the email server shows she has an extreme lack of good judgment and is a liar ( and that isn't even the biggest issue with Hillary).

So, for the first time in a long time I will get to vote for the candidate that lines up with my political view. Other than the fact that I fear the next four years will be horrible under Trump or Clinton, I at least take comfort that I am not voting for either of the two parties that got us in the shape we are in today, nor am I voting for a billionaire (or wannabe billionaire depending on who you ask) that acts more like a two year old than my three year old granddaughter does.

I'll probably end up voting for Johnson because Delaware is almost certainly in the Clinton column.

It's ironic, the Electoral College that people say prevents outsider parties from participating may actually help in garnering the numbers they need to qualify for federal funding.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

This is a key part of the message that needs to get out - unless you live in a potential battle ground state, your vote will not impact the outcome of the election. I live in Illinois which despite Trump's claims (he's ripping Senator Kirk for not supporting him) is going to go to Hilary. My vote will not impact the outcome of the election but a vote for Johnson will help the Libertarian Party. Vote Johnson or vote Stein depending on your ideology and send a message while helping those parties gain traction that will help force the major parties to actually listen to people more and insiders and lobbyists less.

And to OLFU's point about Trump's public persona vs. those who say he is "a reasonable, rational, calm, well meaning disciplined individual," I also have to factor in his reputation has a businessman - the bankruptcies and stories of him screwing over his partners and contractors. I know that development can be a cutthroat business but his reputation shows a near complete lack of character and integrity. Is that the kind of person I want running this country? He and Hilary are cut from a similar cloth and I don't want either one to be President.

[Ivytalk]

You guys crack me up. I guarantee I'm more in the middle than 75% of you.

88 vs. 89, who is more in the middle? What do you propose for a wager?

It all depends on who posts last! Seriously, I made a bet with a Democrat friend (yes, I do have a few) that I was more conservative than he was. We went down a list of about 15 issues, and I made the mistake of going first -- making it relatively easy for him to stake out a position to my right on enough of those issues to "win" the bet. He's a world class BS merchant -- New York trial lawyer.

[JohnStOnge]

The media has also created a false impression that Hillary is the better candidate...and you fell for it.

We all ultimately get our information on the world beyond our immediate experience through media in some form or fashion. Also, as I've written many times, I don't think the media can be relied upon to provide accurate perspectives. However, I don't think my opinion on Trump is the result of media interpretation or distortion. It's based on observation of his behavior.

As I've written before, I told my wife shortly after Trump started his campaign effort that there was no way I could vote for that guy if he got the nomination because he acted like a middle school kid. Right off the bat I had concerns about his emotional maturity and stability. Then if there was any remaining question on the matter his "I like people who don't get captured" comment during discussion of John McCain's prisoner of war experience eliminated it. That comment was completely unacceptable and unforgivable. Also, in my opinion, it was yet another expression of extremely immature behavior.

He said what he said. He behaved like he behaved. The media didn't make him look emotionally unstable and immature. His behavior did.

There are media stories that re-inforce the impression. Like the one about how he stalked British reporter Selina Scott for 20 years because he didn't like the documentary she did on him. If it's true that was very sick, obsessive, immature behavior. And I believe it's true; partially because I think I saw behavior consistent with what Scott said she experienced in Trump's response to Meghan Kelly asking him questions he didn't like.

And I do assess Politifact's conclusions. That's using media opinion on a large number of statements instead of assessing each one myself. But at the same time it's real easy to see that the guy lies all the time. All you have to do is pay attention.

Yes, one always has to be aware of the fact that there is media distortion. That's a given. But even with that it's pretty clear that the idea of Donald Trump as President of the United States is just totally unacceptable.

[kalm]

You guys crack me up. I guarantee I'm more in the middle than 75% of you.

88 vs. 89, who is more in the middle? What do you propose for a wager?

You are closer to the middle.

[Grizalltheway]

I know Gary Johnson personally and thinks he's a great guy and a far better candidate than Trump or the Democrat shithead, but I won't vote for him. A vote for Gary Johnson is a vote for Hillary. No fucking way I will do anything that might benefit that bitch.

Only if you live in a swing state or a potential swing state. If your state is deep red or deep blue you may as well vote for Mickey Mouse.

[OL FU]

I know Gary Johnson personally and thinks he's a great guy and a far better candidate than Trump or the Democrat shithead, but I won't vote for him. A vote for Gary Johnson is a vote for Hillary. No **** way I will do anything that might benefit that bitch.

Only if you live in a swing state or a potential swing state. If your state is deep red or deep blue you may as well vote for Mickey Mouse.

I think CidGrad just moved to North Carolina, so he is swinging

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

WARSAW — President Obama condemned the sniper-style shootings of Dallas police officers Friday, calling the assault a "vicious, calculated and despicable attack on law enforcement.

"I believe I speak for every single American when I say we are horrified over these events, and we stand united with the people and the police department in Dallas," he said.

Obama said he spoke with Dallas Mayor Mike Rawlings, and offered him condolences and federal assistance.

Dallas police said at least five officers were killed and seven more injured by gunfire in downtown Dallas during what had been a peaceful protest over police-involved shootings Thursday night.

After almost an hour of negotiations, the heavily armed gunman — who was holed up in a building that overlooked the protest route — was killed by police using a robot-controlled explosive device. Three other people have been arrested.

"We will learn more, undoubtedly, about their twisted motivations, but let’s be clear: There is no possible justification for these types of attacks," Obama said. "Anyone involved in the senseless murders will be held fully accountable. Justice will be done."

How incredibly divisive.

That dumb POS thinking he speaks for anyone in this country shows you how fu*king stupid and disconnected he is. He is a race arsonist and should be jailed.

[OL FU]

Well I took the who do I side with test one more time slowly and this time picking the importance of the issue. Johnson high 80s. Trump high 60s sanders and Jill Ben stein low 60s. Clinton high 50s . I am feeling pretty comfortable with my decision .

[89Hen]

You're one of the 75.

I know that's what you think but as discussed before the majority of Americans poll substantially more progressive than they vote or what you think.

A majority of Americans don't post on this board Kalm.

[89Hen]

88 vs. 89, who is more in the middle? What do you propose for a wager?

You are closer to the middle.

Could be, but that just means he's one of the 25.

[kalm]

I know that's what you think but as discussed before the majority of Americans poll substantially more progressive than they vote or what you think.

A majority of Americans don't post on this board Kalm.

Touche.

But take AZGriz as an example. He's conk to the bone but if you drill down a bit you find he's really quite soft on social issues like gay marriage.

I think many conservatives talk a good game, but end up having a friend or loved one who is gay, someone they know with a drug problem who is forgivable and better helped from a disease standpoint than incarceration, or who's profession directly benefits from big government spending. They rail against the EPA while enjoying their clean air and water.

At the very least, they begrudgingly cash their social security checks.

[89Hen]

A majority of Americans don't post on this board Kalm.

Touche.

But take AZGriz as an example. He's conk to the bone but if you drill down a bit you find he's really quite soft on social issues like gay marriage.

I think many conservatives talk a good game, but end up having a friend or loved one who is gay, someone they know with a drug problem who is forgivable and better helped from a disease standpoint than incarceration, or who's profession directly benefits from big government spending. They rail against the EPA while enjoying their clean air and water.

At the very least, they begrudgingly cash their social security checks.

And I'm not a conk to the bone and I voted for gay marriage in Maryland when it came up. Z is also one of the 75.

[CAA Flagship]

88 vs. 89, who is more in the middle? What do you propose for a wager?

It all depends on who posts last! Seriously, I made a bet with a Democrat friend (yes, I do have a few) that I was more conservative than he was. We went down a list of about 15 issues, and I made the mistake of going first -- making it relatively easy for him to stake out a position to my right on enough of those issues to "win" the bet. He's a world class BS merchant -- New York trial lawyer.

[Gil Dobie]

The middle is relative to the person making the statement.