Are we really going to attack the Norks?

[Ibanez]

Well ****.



http://www.reuters.com/article/us-north ... SKBN17Q1LR

This could be theater

It is. It's a power move (unless there's an intelligence comm that isn't at the Capitol but at the WH.)

A group of 10 people (POTUS, SoS, SoD, etc...) and their aides are easier to move than 100+ people. Make everyone come down the Hill to you is a power move.

[Skjellyfetti]

It isn't directed at Kim. Think. This has McMaster and Mattis written all over it

Yes, but keeping the North Koreans in the news is feeding the firehose of propaganda for Kim Jon un. I don't see what good comes of this.

I liked Tillerson's response a couple of weeks ago.

North Korea launched yet another intermediate range ballistic missile. The United States has spoken enough about North Korea. We have no further comment.

Stop giving them all this fucking attention. If you need to discuss shit, do it in private. Dick waving just helps Kim.

[89Hen]

Dick waving just helps Kim.

In a gross way

[CID1990]

It isn't directed at Kim. Think. This has McMaster and Mattis written all over it

Yes, but keeping the North Koreans in the news is feeding the firehose of propaganda for Kim Jon un. I don't see what good comes of this.

I liked Tillerson's response a couple of weeks ago.

North Korea launched yet another intermediate range ballistic missile. The United States has spoken enough about North Korea. We have no further comment.

Stop giving them all this **** attention. If you need to discuss ****, do it in private. Dick waving just helps Kim.

No- making concessions and sending food aid to Kim helps Kim

What we are doing right now is directed at China- Kim propagandizes against the US regardless of what we do


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[Col Hogan]

President Trump has asked all 100 senators to attend a briefing on North Korea. The entire National Security team will be doing the briefing at the White House. Staffers for the House are working on setting up a similar briefing for Represenatives.

[89Hen]

President Trump has asked all 100 senators to attend a briefing on North Korea. The entire National Security team will be doing the briefing at the White House. Staffers for the House are working on setting up a similar briefing for Represenatives.

Retirement suits you well Hogan.

[Col Hogan]

President Trump has asked all 100 senators to attend a briefing on North Korea. The entire National Security team will be doing the briefing at the White House. Staffers for the House are working on setting up a similar briefing for Represenatives.

Retirement suits you well Hogan.

So far, so good.

[VictorG]

Trump has a lot of words, really, really good words he wants to share.....

[cx500d]

This dude has been specifically converted to sling a shit ton of Tomahawks...Coincidence, or not?


http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/04/24 ... -port.html

[Skjellyfetti]

This has McMaster and Mattis written all over it

McMaster isn't one of the ones listed to be at the meeting.

This has Mattis written all over it. And Mattis is a straight up neo Con.

[CID1990]

This has McMaster and Mattis written all over it

McMaster isn't one of the ones listed to be at the meeting.

This has Mattis written all over it. And Mattis is a straight up neo Con.

Jesus dude - you really have a bad case

He doesn't HAVE to be at the meeting

The NSC is part and parcel to all matters military and otherwise. It is that clearinghouse through which DoD, DoS and DoJ pass. McMaster and Mattis are the ones delivering this plan. That's how it works.

Nice trotting out the old go-to neocon label on maybe the least ideological SecDef in the last 50 years. Makes it sound like you're just being contrarian for lack of something informed to say

[SDHornet]

Yes, but keeping the North Koreans in the news is feeding the firehose of propaganda for Kim Jon un. I don't see what good comes of this.

I liked Tillerson's response a couple of weeks ago.



Stop giving them all this **** attention. If you need to discuss ****, do it in private. Dick waving just helps Kim.

No- making concessions and sending food aid to Kim helps Kim

What we are doing right now is directed at China- Kim propagandizes against the US regardless of what we do


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This would have been my guess. Trump just needs to balk China into handling this problem for us (and the rest of the Pacific Rim folk). They probably have the most to lose if we were to be the ones to forcibly oust Kim. Heard on the radio that China imposed an oil embargo on the Norks. This should get good.

[Skjellyfetti]

Well, this is cryptic...

[Ivytalk]

Well, this is cryptic...

At least I know that currency-manipulating, intellectual-property-stealing, Walmart-stuffing, ping-pong-playing, SOS country tried!

[houndawg]

McMaster isn't one of the ones listed to be at the meeting.

This has Mattis written all over it. And Mattis is a straight up neo Con.

Jesus dude - you really have a bad case

He doesn't HAVE to be at the meeting

The NSC is part and parcel to all matters military and otherwise. It is that clearinghouse through which DoD, DoS and DoJ pass. McMaster and Mattis are the ones delivering this plan. That's how it works.

Nice trotting out the old go-to neocon label on maybe the least ideological SecDef in the last 50 years. Makes it sound like you're just being contrarian for lack of something informed to say

Back in the day I recall an incident on the DMZ where I think it was an mp that was injured or killed. The US crossed the DMZ and cut down a tree on their side of Panmunjom in what was billed as an enormous loss of face for them. Do you see anything like that or breaking windows with sonicbooms?

[CID1990]

Jesus dude - you really have a bad case

He doesn't HAVE to be at the meeting

The NSC is part and parcel to all matters military and otherwise. It is that clearinghouse through which DoD, DoS and DoJ pass. McMaster and Mattis are the ones delivering this plan. That's how it works.

Nice trotting out the old go-to neocon label on maybe the least ideological SecDef in the last 50 years. Makes it sound like you're just being contrarian for lack of something informed to say

Back in the day I recall an incident on the DMZ where I think it was an mp that was injured or killed. The US crossed the DMZ and cut down a tree on their side of Panmunjom in what was billed as an enormous loss of face for them. Do you see anything like that or breaking windows with sonicbooms?

It would have to be something that the commoner could see

The flyovers we did recently are surely maddening for Kim, but if state media says it was their own planes, then technically not a loss of face (the act has to be witnessed by a third party)

Now if we dropped millions of little American flags on them...

TBH I think that if Kim is antagonized to action, his first action is going to be against a target he can actually hit - South Korea. An artillery bombardment most likely.

The bottom line is that the road to Pyongyang runs through China. If Kim is goaded enough then things will get messy for everybody involved. There would be no winners in a war or the Korean Peninsula, and hundreds of thousands of Koreans would die. Factor in that China would likely move into NK and we would likely preemptively strike NK missile sites, and that's a recipe for disaster

Our only real leverage point is in convincing China that we will strike North Korea. If the Chinese think we are getting ready to use some kind of force against Kim, they will act - likely by having Kim "replaced" with a proxy of some kind. Remember that China wants and needs a friendly buffer on their southern border with NK. Losing that is unacceptable to them, so they won't let Kim precipitate the end of his own regime. They'll do it on their own terms first

[houndawg]

Back in the day I recall an incident on the DMZ where I think it was an mp that was injured or killed. The US crossed the DMZ and cut down a tree on their side of Panmunjom in what was billed as an enormous loss of face for them. Do you see anything like that or breaking windows with sonicbooms?

It would have to be something that the commoner could see

The flyovers we did recently are surely maddening for Kim, but if state media says it was their own planes, then technically not a loss of face (the act has to be witnessed by a third party)

Now if we dropped millions of little American flags on them...

TBH I think that if Kim is antagonized to action, his first action is going to be against a target he can actually hit - South Korea. An artillery bombardment most likely.

The bottom line is that the road to Pyongyang runs through China. If Kim is goaded enough then things will get messy for everybody involved. There would be no winners in a war or the Korean Peninsula, and hundreds of thousands of Koreans would die. Factor in that China would likely move into NK and we would likely preemptively strike NK missile sites, and that's a recipe for disaster

Our only real leverage point is in convincing China that we will strike North Korea. If the Chinese think we are getting ready to use some kind of force against Kim, they will act - likely by having Kim "replaced" with a proxy of some kind. Remember that China wants and needs a friendly buffer on their southern border with NK. Losing that is unacceptable to them, so they won't let Kim precipitate the end of his own regime. They'll do it on their own terms first

So you don't forsee any military retaliation? Will Trump listen to his advisors?

[CID1990]

It would have to be something that the commoner could see

The flyovers we did recently are surely maddening for Kim, but if state media says it was their own planes, then technically not a loss of face (the act has to be witnessed by a third party)

Now if we dropped millions of little American flags on them...

TBH I think that if Kim is antagonized to action, his first action is going to be against a target he can actually hit - South Korea. An artillery bombardment most likely.

The bottom line is that the road to Pyongyang runs through China. If Kim is goaded enough then things will get messy for everybody involved. There would be no winners in a war or the Korean Peninsula, and hundreds of thousands of Koreans would die. Factor in that China would likely move into NK and we would likely preemptively strike NK missile sites, and that's a recipe for disaster

Our only real leverage point is in convincing China that we will strike North Korea. If the Chinese think we are getting ready to use some kind of force against Kim, they will act - likely by having Kim "replaced" with a proxy of some kind. Remember that China wants and needs a friendly buffer on their southern border with NK. Losing that is unacceptable to them, so they won't let Kim precipitate the end of his own regime. They'll do it on their own terms first

So you don't forsee any military retaliation? Will Trump listen to his advisors?

I don't, unless NK does some kind of first strike on South Korea. So far Trump has deferred to Mattis so I don't see that changing for now

[Ibanez]

Well, this is cryptic...

At least I know that currency-manipulating, intellectual-property-stealing, Walmart-stuffing, ping-pong-playing, SOS country tried!

It's funny you mention this. I won't say the company, but someone in China has trademarked the name and logo of an American company and is now intercepting (stealing) the shipments. Everyday it's something new...

[GannonFan]

Remember that China wants and needs a friendly buffer on their southern border with NK. Losing that is unacceptable to them, so they won't let Kim precipitate the end of his own regime. They'll do it on their own terms first

I didn't understand this part - why does China really care if North Korea is friendly to them or not? Surely they're not worried about invasion - no one's going to attack China in this day and age. I understand the loss of face if a North Korean regime was anti-China. Are they worried about not being able to secure the border and Chinese would flee to North Korea? It doesn't seem all that hard for them to secure the border and would there really be a mass movement of people if it was possible?

[CID1990]

Remember that China wants and needs a friendly buffer on their southern border with NK. Losing that is unacceptable to them, so they won't let Kim precipitate the end of his own regime. They'll do it on their own terms first

I didn't understand this part - why does China really care if North Korea is friendly to them or not? Surely they're not worried about invasion - no one's going to attack China in this day and age. I understand the loss of face if a North Korean regime was anti-China. Are they worried about not being able to secure the border and Chinese would flee to North Korea? It doesn't seem all that hard for them to secure the border and would there really be a mass movement of people if it was possible?

That's because China's psyche is different from ours.

When the Korean War occurred, China badly needed a secure ally on their southern border, given that US forces were in Korea, and then after the ceasefire elected to stay.

In those years remember that China's relationship with the USSR was very tense, and if NK had been defeated and then reunited with the south, China would have had the USSR to the north and a US proxy to the south.

The calculus has changed somewhat, but old habits die hard. We have done the same thing since the USSR broke up- we have continued to operate around the world as if Russia was still a problem in terms of the NATO perspective.

Consider the hissy fit Beijing has been having over our THAAD deployment... they dont want us having a radar that can peer into China- which is exactly why they dont want a US ally on their border.

China views North Korea as a petulant little brother- one they would rather be without. They aren't really allies in the traditional sense. But China feeds and tolerates the Kims because they believe they need them to keep us off their doorstep. It is classic "sphere of influence" strategy and the Chinese are stuck in that paradigm.

If China thinks we can be provoked into attacking Kim, then they will be VERY nervous- possibly to the point that they either "persuade" Kim to knock it off, or they will take him out themselves, occupy the country, and set up a puppet. They also could find a way to finesse a deal that eliminates our presence in Korea in return for a reunification, but that's far fetched.


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[Skjellyfetti]

Well, that is quite a statement.

North Korea best not make any more threats to the United States. They will be met with the fire and fury like the world has never seen. He has been threatening beyond a normal state, and as I said they will be met with the fire and fury and frankly power, the likes of which this world has never seen before. Thank you.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-h ... ry-n790896


I'm sure bluster to get some coverage during his vacation.

Also, it sounds exactly like something North Korea would say.

But, I don't think the Norks will let up. And, I don't think Trump is going to back that up... but, we'll see...

[89Hen]

If China thinks we can be provoked into attacking Kim, then they will be VERY nervous- possibly to the point that they either "persuade" Kim to knock it off, or they will take him out themselves, occupy the country, and set up a puppet.

That's my odds on favorite.

[Chizzang]

If China thinks we can be provoked into attacking Kim, then they will be VERY nervous- possibly to the point that they either "persuade" Kim to knock it off, or they will take him out themselves, occupy the country, and set up a puppet.

That's my odds on favorite.

We agree...

How often (count on one hand) where CID / HEN / CHIZ all agree simultaneously

[Grizalltheway]

Well, that is quite a statement.

North Korea best not make any more threats to the United States. They will be met with the fire and fury like the world has never seen. He has been threatening beyond a normal state, and as I said they will be met with the fire and fury and frankly power, the likes of which this world has never seen before. Thank you.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-h ... ry-n790896


I'm sure bluster to get some coverage during his vacation.

Also, it sounds exactly like something North Korea would say.

But, I don't think the Norks will let up. And, I don't think Trump is going to back that up... but, we'll see...

Yeah, Drumpf and Kim are basically cut from the same cloth.