How Long Will The Shutdown Last? (Dec 2018)

[JohnStOnge]

Yeah, adding a couple thousand Hondurans and Guats might actually improve the gene pool of southeast LA.

I’ve discovered your problem.

So do you think Trump's concept of having a continuous wall along the entire US border is a practical concept?

And the stuff about the majority of the US population and/or the population of US voters being opposed to the idea is not what I think. It's a fact. It was that way on election day 11/8/2016, it's that way now, and it's been that way every day in the interim. He's making a big stink over something the People don't want.

[JohnStOnge]

Maybe some of you disagree but I think Trump's thought was a continuous wall along the entire US/Mexico border. I do not think that is a practical thought. I don't think it's a thought that a rational adult would've conceived. I don't think most of the people in the immediate vicinity of the border want anything like that. And I KNOW most people in the United States don't want it. When Trump pushes for this wall thing he is pushing against the will of a clear majority of the People.

Yeah, adding a couple thousand Hondurans and Guats might actually improve the gene pool of southeast LA.

You know, I've written in this forum before in another topic area that if one is objective about it one would expect the average mental acuity of the United States relative to the rest of the world to decline as the proportion of Blacks + Hispanics in the population increases. It's an unpopular view but it's just math.

That doesn't change the fact that a wall as conceived by Trump during the 2015-2016 election season is not practical nor does it change the fact that the majority of the general population as well as the majority of voters oppose it and have opposed it for a long time. Also it would not significantly change the trend if it changes it at all. The proportion of Blacks + Hispanics in the population is going to continue to increase and non Hispanic Whites will be less than 50% of the population within a short time in historical terms. Also, while Asians represent a positive influence on average mental acuity they are similar to Hispanics in their voting patterns and they are also increasing as a proportion of the population.

[Ibanez]

They worked well at Jericho, Rome, Carthage, England/Scotland border. The Maginot Line, kinda of like a wall if you think about it, worked out great.

Let me guess- you’ll bring up the Great Wall. Or the Berlin Wall?


Why don’t we help these people from having to leave their homes. It’s the 21st Century, surely we don’t need to rely on a low tech wall that can be compromised by explosives, tunneling, ladders, etc....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah. Those countries get NO support from us.

what’s your idea if a way to keep people from illegally immigrating? A wall isn’t going to work. We have a wall and a river now that don’t keep people Out. I agree that our foreign policy isn’t working well but I’m not sure a wall is going to do it. The point of my posts was that walls aren’t the answer. The Great Wall Of China even had it its limitations.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Chizzang]

Yeah. Those countries get NO support from us.

what’s your idea if a way to keep people from illegally immigrating? A wall isn’t going to work. We have a wall and a river now that don’t keep people Out. I agree that our foreign policy isn’t working well but I’m not sure a wall is going to do it. The point of my posts was that walls aren’t the answer. The Great Wall Of China even had it its limitations.

The guy trying hardest to build the wall (our President) hires illegals
and he won't do anything about his buddies that hire illegals
and congress won't do anything about their rich constituents that hire illegals

"The Wall" has become like a game to mesmerize retarded children



Look over here...

[∞∞∞]

You'd think with the technology we have, a virtual wall with sensors, cameras, hell even motion-activated drone squadrons would make more sense and be more cost effective than a physical barrier. Instead of giving money to developers, we should be hiring our top tech firms to come up with a reasonable solution.

[CAA Flagship]

You'd think with the technology we have, a virtual wall with sensors, cameras, hell even motion-activated drone squadrons would make more sense and be more cost effective than a physical barrier. Instead of giving money to developers, we should be hiring our top tech firms to come up with a reasonable solution.

Technology is detection, not a deterrent.
So people can still stroll across the border. Then it takes manpower to apprehend them. What if a caravan of people crossed at once? A majority of the group would get through.
Bottom line, we need deterrent AND detection.

[dbackjon]

So all you naysayers are saying we should have open borders? I would prefer to keep sex traffickers, drug dealers (we have a huge opiate addiction problem with heroin from S America), MS 13 members and other criminals out of the country.

Dems just want illegals here for votes, build the wall. The shutdown is not going to impact any vital devices, I went thru a fairly long one in the 90s.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Dude - no one is saying open borders. You have fallen for Chump's Border Security = Wall. Stop it.

[∞∞∞]

You'd think with the technology we have, a virtual wall with sensors, cameras, hell even motion-activated drone squadrons would make more sense and be more cost effective than a physical barrier. Instead of giving money to developers, we should be hiring our top tech firms to come up with a reasonable solution.

Technology is detection, not a deterrent.
So people can still stroll across the border. Then it takes manpower to apprehend them. What if a caravan of people crossed at once? A majority of the group would get through.
Bottom line, we need deterrent AND detection.

You still have the manpower. The tech just makes them more precise and efficient when deployed. Imagine this:

-Sensors detect movement crossing the border.
-A network of thermal cameras in that area trigger and identify they're human in nature.
-Border Patrol is alerted that a possible incursion is occurring.
-Nearest drone is launched overhead and scans the area; it gives a count of 100 people. Program believes the likelihood of migrants scattering is high, so the network launches other strategically located drones to track a certain amount of people (per drone) based on an algorithm. All the while a live feed is being sent to patrol HQ and the network of sensors and drones is telling them exactly how many officers need to be deployed and at which locations.
-A precise number of Border Patrol agents is sent to the locations.
-Drones, cameras, and sensors continue to track anyone who gets away from agents until they're apprehended.

No more than needed is wasted during the process.

A wall is just a wall; in a secluded area in the middle of the desert, people will find a way around it and once they're over, it's hard to track them. Even if no one is around, a well built and programmed virtual wall would be able to track illegal immigrants throughout their crossing. And I'd guess it's cheaper to build, maintain, upgrade, while saving us money over time and giving agents real-time data analytics so they can adjust where to deploy and focus their resources.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

I hope it lasts 2 years

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

You'd think with the technology we have, a virtual wall with sensors, cameras, hell even motion-activated drone squadrons would make more sense and be more cost effective than a physical barrier. Instead of giving money to developers, we should be hiring our top tech firms to come up with a reasonable solution.

We can do that after we have a physical wall

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Ibanez]

You'd think with the technology we have, a virtual wall with sensors, cameras, hell even motion-activated drone squadrons would make more sense and be more cost effective than a physical barrier. Instead of giving money to developers, we should be hiring our top tech firms to come up with a reasonable solution.

Detection does not solve the problem of why they’re coming here.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ibanez]

Technology is detection, not a deterrent.
So people can still stroll across the border. Then it takes manpower to apprehend them. What if a caravan of people crossed at once? A majority of the group would get through.
Bottom line, we need deterrent AND detection.

You still have the manpower. The tech just makes them more precise and efficient when deployed. Imagine this:

-Sensors detect movement crossing the border.
-A network of thermal cameras in that area trigger and identify they're human in nature.
-Border Patrol is alerted that a possible incursion is occurring.
-Nearest drone is launched overhead and scans the area; it gives a count of 100 people. Program believes the likelihood of migrants scattering is high, so the network launches other strategically located drones to track a certain amount of people (per drone) based on an algorithm. All the while a live feed is being sent to patrol HQ and the network of sensors and drones is telling them exactly how many officers need to be deployed and at which locations.
-A precise number of Border Patrol agents is sent to the locations.
-Drones, cameras, and sensors continue to track anyone who gets away from agents until they're apprehended.

No more than needed is wasted during the process.

A wall is just a wall; in a secluded area in the middle of the desert, people will find a way around it and once they're over, it's hard to track them. Even if no one is around, a well built and programmed virtual wall would be able to track illegal immigrants throughout their crossing. And I'd guess it's cheaper to build, maintain, upgrade, while saving us money over time and giving agents real-time data analytics so they can adjust where to deploy and focus their resources.

Holy shit that’s a lot of resources that can be prone to failure, theft, damage, etc... I’m all for using tech but that seems as asinine as the wall


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JohnStOnge]

I hope it lasts 2 years

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

So, like you're hoping that the people who were trying to figure out what was going on with the recent toxigenic E. coli outbreak from Romaine lettuce wouldn't be around to figure such things out for 2 years.

[JohnStOnge]

Frankly if I had my way there would be no such thing as illegal drugs. If people want to do drugs they should be able to. But since Trump is big on the idea that his wall would have a significant impact on the illegal drug trade:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/29/tr ... port-says/

A 24-page report prepared by the DEA in May found that drugs coming from Mexico do often enter through the southwestern border, but they do so concealed in vehicles, like tractor-trailers. Moreover, drugs coming from Colombia are more often transported by plane and boat, the reports notes.

That's from one article I got a hit on when I Googled "How would border wall impact illegal drug trade?" You could do that and look at various hits. The answer is that it wouldn't have much impact.

[kalm]

You'd think with the technology we have, a virtual wall with sensors, cameras, hell even motion-activated drone squadrons would make more sense and be more cost effective than a physical barrier. Instead of giving money to developers, we should be hiring our top tech firms to come up with a reasonable solution.

Detection does not solve the problem of why they’re coming here.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Chizzy and JSO already hit on it.

Jail a few illegal employers in a very public manner and legalize all drugs.

[Chizzang]

I don't really care about the shut down... or rather I don't have an opinion on that part
But Trumps wall was sold to America as something that somebody else was going to pay for

Now he wants me and you to pay for it

[∞∞∞]

Detection does not solve the problem of why they’re coming here.

Chizzy and JSO already hit on it.

Jail a few illegal employers in a very public manner and legalize all drugs.

I disagree about jailing employers; it seems extreme. However there obviously needs to be reform.

That said, America clearly has more jobs available than citizens which are willing to do them. So if we're going to clamp down on illegals, we need to bring in more legal immigrants and/or naturalize more people. What we can't do - which is the current policy - is clamping down on both illegals and legal immigration. That throws the economy off (and it's why I think bringing in only educated immigrants is ridiculous, because there's a legitimate need for all types of people.)

Of course the other option is to clamp down on immigration and sacrifice production/GDP. But let's be real about Americans: most cons wouldn't go for that because they worship the dollar, and most libs won't go for that because they worship the dollar and sometimes care about the human aspect of immigration.

ps. I agree about legalizing all drugs.

[CID1990]

Chizzy and JSO already hit on it.

Jail a few illegal employers in a very public manner and legalize all drugs.

I disagree about jailing employers; it seems extreme. However there obviously needs to be reform.

I don’t see why you’d disagree with that

Some of the biggest employers of illegal labor are large construction and service corporations.. the decision makers are shielded from all kinds of criminal and civil liability by the corporations they direct

So if they get caught using illegal Mexican roofers, it’s the corporation that is liable and not the CEO... so they would pay their fines as an operating cost and move on

Locking up a CEO or two is Page One of the playbook, Treep... right before the page that says lock up the landlord class...

[93henfan]

Today is orderly shutdown day. I'm sitting here waiting for inept excepted service people in DC to email me my furlough notice so I can e-sign it and send back.

[93henfan]

The only negative to the shutdown for me is that I usually have a few days of use or lose annual leave that I donate to a worthy employee with some sort of legit illness (usually cancer) who has exhausted their sick leave.

I enjoy reading the year-end pleas for donated annual leave. There are always a few from women named Laquisha (or similar) who are having their third kid out of wedlock with third different dad. Or some lazy 50 year old fat white woman with "fibromyalgia", the biggest made-up bullshit disease in history.

Here I am reading those last two:

[∞∞∞]

I disagree about jailing employers; it seems extreme. However there obviously needs to be reform.

I don’t see why you’d disagree with that

Some of the biggest employers of illegal labor are large construction and service corporations.. the decision makers are shielded from all kinds of criminal and civil liability by the corporations they direct

So if they get caught using illegal Mexican roofers, it’s the corporation that is liable and not the CEO... so they would pay their fines as an operating cost and move on

Locking up a CEO or two is Page One of the playbook, Treep... right before the page that says lock up the landlord class...

I just don't see employing illegal immigrants to be something extreme enough to take someone's freedom away, unless they violated human right laws in the process.

[kalm]

I don’t see why you’d disagree with that

Some of the biggest employers of illegal labor are large construction and service corporations.. the decision makers are shielded from all kinds of criminal and civil liability by the corporations they direct

So if they get caught using illegal Mexican roofers, it’s the corporation that is liable and not the CEO... so they would pay their fines as an operating cost and move on

Locking up a CEO or two is Page One of the playbook, Treep... right before the page that says lock up the landlord class...

I just don't see employing illegal immigrants to be something extreme enough to take someone's freedom away, unless they violated human right laws in the process.

It depends on the scale of the crime but as CID mentioned fines aren't enough to keep them from breaking the law. It's the same with big banks and financial institutions. Fines in the billions of dollars have been levied and it's just considered a cost of doing business. Take a CEO's freedom away for at least a short while and you'd change the behavior.

[∞∞∞]

I just don't see employing illegal immigrants to be something extreme enough to take someone's freedom away, unless they violated human right laws in the process.

It depends on the scale of the crime but as CID mentioned fines aren't enough to keep them from breaking the law. It's the same with big banks and financial institutions. Fines in the billions of dollars have been levied and it's just considered a cost of doing business. Take a CEO's freedom away for at least a short while and you'd change the behavior.

Again, I don't think the punishment fits the crime. Fines seem more reasonable, or just make it easier for immigrants to come into the country and stay here en masse.

In the end, the work still needs to be done somehow.

[93henfan]

Just e-signed my furlough letter. I'm officially unemployed.

[kalm]

It depends on the scale of the crime but as CID mentioned fines aren't enough to keep them from breaking the law. It's the same with big banks and financial institutions. Fines in the billions of dollars have been levied and it's just considered a cost of doing business. Take a CEO's freedom away for at least a short while and you'd change the behavior.

Again, I don't think the punishment fits the crime. Fines seem more reasonable, or just make it easier for immigrants to come into the country and stay here en masse.

In the end, the work still needs to be done somehow.

Immigrant labor also undercuts wages. There are what, 12 million illegal immigrants? How many of those are working? I'd like to think we could absorb the demand domestically if wages were better.