Hanoi Trump Fails Bigly

[Ivytalk]

Dback ripping the tits off this thread.

[dbackjon]

[JohnStOnge]

Un offered a bad deal. Trump declined. We don't need another Iran or Paris.

Yep. This.

Jeff - please lay out for the board what either Bush, Clinton or Obama did to prevent the mess in North Korea that exists today, we'll wait.

The big difference is that Trump is a flim flam man so he spent a lot of time bullshitting about how much he was accomplishing with respect to North Korea.

[UNI88]

Yep. This.

Jeff - please lay out for the board what either Bush, Clinton or Obama did to prevent the mess in North Korea that exists today, we'll wait.

The big difference is that Trump is a flim flam man so he spent a lot of time bullshitting about how much he was accomplishing with respect to North Korea.

Well, I lost you at the border,
When you crossed it
Had your number, baby,
But I lost it
I know your love,
Was just a flim flam

[JoltinJoe]

[Ivytalk]

There goes the other tit!

[SDHornet]

Un offered a bad deal. Trump declined. We don't need another Iran or Paris.

[SDHornet]

Another thing the Republicans will give him a pass on.

That’s true. He came away with nothing.

But I actually give him a pass on this one as well. He walked away without trying concessions to save political face. That’s a relief and a bit if a surprise, actually. As long as we have our people in South Korea I’m ok with engaging Kim. And I’m open to any strategy that involves us telling Kim, “You go first” and then walking away without giving him food aid or sanctions relief when he doesn’t act in good faith

But I think dealing with Kim is just making the best of a bad situation - we should be pulling out if South Korea entirely and then never acknowledging or dealing with Kim again. South Korea gets a lot of benefits from us being there and I’d like to see them deal with the Norks without us standing behind them.

We might find that they could actually make some headway with the right “motivation”




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Good points. SK and the Japs have the most to lose with a reckless NK on the lose.

BTW when was the last time the Norks fired a missile into the Pacific?

[SDHornet]

Dback ripping the tits off this thread.

The Peanuts comic is a good one.

[Ibanez]

That’s true. He came away with nothing.

But I actually give him a pass on this one as well. He walked away without trying concessions to save political face. That’s a relief and a bit if a surprise, actually. As long as we have our people in South Korea I’m ok with engaging Kim. And I’m open to any strategy that involves us telling Kim, “You go first” and then walking away without giving him food aid or sanctions relief when he doesn’t act in good faith

But I think dealing with Kim is just making the best of a bad situation - we should be pulling out if South Korea entirely and then never acknowledging or dealing with Kim again. South Korea gets a lot of benefits from us being there and I’d like to see them deal with the Norks without us standing behind them.

We might find that they could actually make some headway with the right “motivation”




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Good points. SK and the Japs have the most to lose with a reckless NK on the lose.

BTW when was the last time the Norks fired a missile into the Pacific?

During Obama's admin?

But what does that mean? Perhaps that they no longer need to test missiles? Perhaps they have given up (unlikely).

[∞∞∞]

Good points. SK and the Japs have the most to lose with a reckless NK on the lose.

BTW when was the last time the Norks fired a missile into the Pacific?

During Obama's admin?

But what does that mean? Perhaps that they no longer need to test missiles? Perhaps they have given up (unlikely).

Two of the three missiles that reached the Pacific were during Trump's term.

Did we already forget the sabre rattling between the fat boys in Trump's first year?

[dbackjon]

During Obama's admin?

But what does that mean? Perhaps that they no longer need to test missiles? Perhaps they have given up (unlikely).

Two of the three missiles that reached the Pacific were during Trump's term.

Did we already forget the sabre rattling between the fat boys in Trump's first year?

Shhh...no facts allowed for Trumpcakes

[Ibanez]

During Obama's admin?

But what does that mean? Perhaps that they no longer need to test missiles? Perhaps they have given up (unlikely).

Two of the three missiles that reached the Pacific were during Trump's term.

Did we already forget the sabre rattling between the fat boys in Trump's first year?

That's right.

16 missile launches in 2017.

But they've been able to launch over Japan since the late 90s.

[css75]

Too bad Curtis LeMay was never President. He'd have bombed NK to glass before they ever got their commie fingers on the button.

McArthur wanted to but Truman put the brakes on and fired him.

General Jack D. Ripper would have done it anyway.


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[SDHornet]

Two of the three missiles that reached the Pacific were during Trump's term.

Did we already forget the sabre rattling between the fat boys in Trump's first year?

That's right.

16 missile launches in 2017.

But they've been able to launch over Japan since the late 90s.

And how many since the first meeting?

[Ibanez]

That's right.

16 missile launches in 2017.

But they've been able to launch over Japan since the late 90s.

And how many since the first meeting?

None since last year.

But maybe soon. They are rebuilding test sites.

[SDHornet]

And how many since the first meeting?

None since last year.

But maybe soon. They are rebuilding test sites.

Actually none since Nov '17. And none over the Japs since Sept '17.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N ... sile_tests

I still don't understand why people think a diplomatic solution to a wildcard nuke state like NK is a bad thing, and why they are hoping for failure. Trump is trying something different, not willing to sign up for a shitty deal (so far), and de-escalating the situation. If anything this devolves back to status quo, and worst case if NK decides to go rogue we glass them...but I guess that thinking gets in the way of "Orange Man Bad". Meh.

[Ibanez]

None since last year.

But maybe soon. They are rebuilding test sites.

Actually none since Nov '17. And none over the Japs since Sept '17.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N ... sile_tests

I still don't understand why people think a diplomatic solution to a wildcard nuke state like NK is a bad thing, and why they are hoping for failure. Trump is trying something different, not willing to sign up for a shitty deal (so far), and de-escalating the situation. If anything this devolves back to status quo, and worst case if NK decides to go rogue we glass them...but I guess that thinking gets in the way of "Orange Man Bad". Meh.

I don't think any attempt to bring peace is a bad idea. If Trump succeeds, then that'll be a major achievement.

[CID1990]

And how many since the first meeting?

None since last year.

But maybe soon. They are rebuilding test sites.

There is activity at one site - and it is part of their “space” program. The site has never been an actual ICBM site, but that’s a minor distinction since putting satellites in orbit or putting nukes on a city are basically two guidance commands away from each other-

I think Kim is testing Trump to see what he’ll do - maybe he thinks we’ll go back to the one-time payments strategy. Get ready for more little fatman dick insults on twitter in lieu of sanctions relief

At this point, Kim has come closer to the table with South Korea than he or his predecessors ever have before. I think a good strategy here could be to point to Seoul and suggest that sanctions relief will only come at South Korea’s request. I think we have a window where an actual peace treaty is possible -

We’ve been trying for denuclearization first for decades. I think that it might be time to re-think that policy and instead look for Korean reconciliation first. I’m sure Trump would like to crow about Kim getting rid of his nukes, but a peace treaty on the peninsula would be a tolerable first, huge step

I don’t think Trump had any vision of what he was trying to achieve with North Korea.. much less a plan outside of making a “deal” - but I do think the act of engaging with Kim has opened a door that hasn’t been available before. It might not be the door Trump wanted but it is still worth pursuing


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[css75]

None since last year.

But maybe soon. They are rebuilding test sites.

There is activity at one site - and it is part of their “space” program. The site has never been an actual ICBM site, but that’s a minor distinction since putting satellites in orbit or putting nukes on a city are basically two guidance commands away from each other-

I think Kim is testing Trump to see what he’ll do - maybe he thinks we’ll go back to the one-time payments strategy. Get ready for more little fatman dick insults on twitter in lieu of sanctions relief

At this point, Kim has come closer to the table with South Korea than he or his predecessors ever have before. I think a good strategy here could be to point to Seoul and suggest that sanctions relief will only come at South Korea’s request. I think we have a window where an actual peace treaty is possible -

We’ve been trying for denuclearization first for decades. I think that it might be time to re-think that policy and instead look for Korean reconciliation first. I’m sure Trump would like to crow about Kim getting rid of his nukes, but a peace treaty on the peninsula would be a tolerable first, huge step

I don’t think Trump had any vision of what he was trying to achieve with North Korea.. much less a plan outside of making a “deal” - but I do think the act of engaging with Kim has opened a door that hasn’t been available before. It might not be the door Trump wanted but it is still worth pursuing


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I concur, he has done more than any previous administration. These things take time. It took Reagan multiple summits to come to an agreement with Gorbachev.


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[CID1990]

There is activity at one site - and it is part of their “space” program. The site has never been an actual ICBM site, but that’s a minor distinction since putting satellites in orbit or putting nukes on a city are basically two guidance commands away from each other-

I think Kim is testing Trump to see what he’ll do - maybe he thinks we’ll go back to the one-time payments strategy. Get ready for more little fatman dick insults on twitter in lieu of sanctions relief

At this point, Kim has come closer to the table with South Korea than he or his predecessors ever have before. I think a good strategy here could be to point to Seoul and suggest that sanctions relief will only come at South Korea’s request. I think we have a window where an actual peace treaty is possible -

We’ve been trying for denuclearization first for decades. I think that it might be time to re-think that policy and instead look for Korean reconciliation first. I’m sure Trump would like to crow about Kim getting rid of his nukes, but a peace treaty on the peninsula would be a tolerable first, huge step

I don’t think Trump had any vision of what he was trying to achieve with North Korea.. much less a plan outside of making a “deal” - but I do think the act of engaging with Kim has opened a door that hasn’t been available before. It might not be the door Trump wanted but it is still worth pursuing


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I concur, he has done more than any previous administration. These things take time. It took Reagan multiple summits to come to an agreement with Gorbachev.


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Speaking of Reagan and Gorbachev, anyone who is interested should Google the media coverage on Reagan during and just after Reykjavik - he was ridiculed as having been played and manhandled by Gorbachev

[SDHornet]

I concur, he has done more than any previous administration. These things take time. It took Reagan multiple summits to come to an agreement with Gorbachev.


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Speaking of Reagan and Gorbachev, anyone who is interested should Google the media coverage on Reagan during and just after Reykjavik - he was ridiculed as having been played and manhandled by Gorbachev

Sometimes history repeats itself.

[Ivytalk]

I concur, he has done more than any previous administration. These things take time. It took Reagan multiple summits to come to an agreement with Gorbachev.


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Speaking of Reagan and Gorbachev, anyone who is interested should Google the media coverage on Reagan during and just after Reykjavik - he was ridiculed as having been played and manhandled by Gorbachev

I remember that!