Coronavirus COVID-19

[AZGrizFan]

You mean just print and give away trillions more in funny money?

We’re you bitching when we bailed private equity firms and the Fed bought up junk bonds at the start of this?

Actually, he, I and CAA all were, to name a few. So yeah.

[kalm]

We’re you bitching when we bailed private equity firms and the Fed bought up junk bonds at the start of this?

Actually, he, I and CAA all were, to name a few. So yeah.

Oh well then I apologize. Where would we be right now without those bailouts?

[Gil Dobie]

If everyone had followed protocol this would have been over by now and the country would have been open a month ago. Too may Bunker Boy worshipers out there that wanted to make it political.

The country has never closed there isn't o e thing I do regularly that I didn't do throughout the media fraud virus. In fact most things were way fucking easier to do.


Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

Had everyone done as you claim, you would not be calling this a media fraud.

[AZGrizFan]

Actually, he, I and CAA all were, to name a few. So yeah.

Oh well then I apologize. Where would we be right now without those bailouts?

Well it’s two separate questions. Bailouts. And Junk bond purchases (and rate reductions).

I’ve NEVER been a fan of bailouts....in ‘08 or now. And I railed against the Fed dropping rates and adding another QE to the QE-infinity that keeps happening. I dont’ know where we’d be, but at least our Fed would have integrity. It has nothing now.

[kalm]

Oh well then I apologize. Where would we be right now without those bailouts?

Well it’s two separate questions. Bailouts. And Junk bond purchases (and rate reductions).

I’ve NEVER been a fan of bailouts....in ‘08 or now. And I railed against the Fed dropping rates and adding another QE to the QE-infinity that keeps happening. I dont’ know where we’d be, but at least our Fed would have integrity. It has nothing now.

Congress is going to be forced to step up. It ain’t getting better for states and local governments anytime soon. They’re going to print money like a mofo to float the states. Like it or not.

[UNI88]

I would argue that over-reaction will lead to greater longer-term economic hardships than inaction (or more honestly, under reaction). The damage done by overreaction is a snowball that develops into an avalanche of economic damage.

One of the many mistakes that was made early in this crisis was to rely on epidemiologists and not get the opinions of psychologists and other experts on how to structure the response from a people perspective to improve the likelihood of compliance. I don't think they gave enough consideration to how people would react, what words should be used (social distancing was a stupid choice), etc.

You can make that argument. Historical evidence and how it’s playing out so far and what’s predicted to occur in the short term aren’t leaning your direction.

Part of the problem is the Fed is still sitting on asset reserves designed EXACTLY for this situation. Those will eventually have be used to avoid a recession by floating states and the working class.

How do you know that psychologists haven’t been consulted?

Links/proof of the bolded?

So you support bailing out poorly run states but decry bailing out poorly run private enterprises (like airlines)?

[kalm]

You can make that argument. Historical evidence and how it’s playing out so far and what’s predicted to occur in the short term aren’t leaning your direction.

Part of the problem is the Fed is still sitting on asset reserves designed EXACTLY for this situation. Those will eventually have be used to avoid a recession by floating states and the working class.

How do you know that psychologists haven’t been consulted?

Links/proof of the bolded?

So you support bailing out poorly run states but decry bailing out poorly run private enterprises (like airlines)?

Economic history: http://news.mit.edu/2020/pandemic-healt ... overy-0401

Houston is requesting a 14-day quarantine for the county and testing for anyone coming into town. E WA now has the same per capita case counts as King County at its peak and I’d be surprised if we don’t go back to phase 1. Miami’s mayor is considering a new stay at home order.

This is happening in numerous locations. Once the R number goes above one, you have exponential spread which is what they’re trying to avoid.

The death rates and numbers are still thankfully low but I just read somewhere that average recovery time is 28 days. 88% of US business have 20 workers or less. Losing even one can be a problem. Not to mention if you are service industry and the case is tracked back to you, even if brought by a customer, you’re likely facing a shutdown by the Dep of Health or at least diminished traffic.

Sweden (again) is another example. Their economy is faring worse than their neighbors. Even if shit is open a good chunk of people simply don’t want to get sick.

Until we improve TTTQ or have a viable vaccine, this will continue to be a rollercoaster that effects the economy.

I support bailing out everyone. That’s why the Fed was invented and it’s why tax rates and spending should have been managed better.

[CID1990]

Links/proof of the bolded?

So you support bailing out poorly run states but decry bailing out poorly run private enterprises (like airlines)?

Economic history: http://news.mit.edu/2020/pandemic-healt ... overy-0401

Houston is requesting a 14-day quarantine for the county and testing for anyone coming into town. E WA now has the same per capita case counts as King County at its peak and I’d be surprised if we don’t go back to phase 1. Miami’s mayor is considering a new stay at home order.

This is happening in numerous locations. Once the R number goes above one, you have exponential spread which is what they’re trying to avoid.

The death rates and numbers are still thankfully low but I just read somewhere that average recovery time is 28 days. 88% of US business have 20 workers or less. Losing even one can be a problem. Not to mention if you are service industry and the case is tracked back to you, even if brought by a customer, you’re likely facing a shutdown by the Dep of Health or at least diminished traffic.

Sweden (again) is another example. Their economy is faring worse than their neighbors. Even if shit is open a good chunk of people simply don’t want to get sick.

Until we improve TTTQ or have a viable vaccine, this will continue to be a rollercoaster that effects the economy.

I support bailing out everyone. That’s why the Fed was invented and it’s why tax rates and spending should have been managed better.

Sweden will be just fine

2 years from now klam will be adding “survived the Wu Flu” to why Scandinavian socialism is superior


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kalm]

Economic history: http://news.mit.edu/2020/pandemic-healt ... overy-0401

Houston is requesting a 14-day quarantine for the county and testing for anyone coming into town. E WA now has the same per capita case counts as King County at its peak and I’d be surprised if we don’t go back to phase 1. Miami’s mayor is considering a new stay at home order.

This is happening in numerous locations. Once the R number goes above one, you have exponential spread which is what they’re trying to avoid.

The death rates and numbers are still thankfully low but I just read somewhere that average recovery time is 28 days. 88% of US business have 20 workers or less. Losing even one can be a problem. Not to mention if you are service industry and the case is tracked back to you, even if brought by a customer, you’re likely facing a shutdown by the Dep of Health or at least diminished traffic.

Sweden (again) is another example. Their economy is faring worse than their neighbors. Even if shit is open a good chunk of people simply don’t want to get sick.

Until we improve TTTQ or have a viable vaccine, this will continue to be a rollercoaster that effects the economy.

I support bailing out everyone. That’s why the Fed was invented and it’s why tax rates and spending should have been managed better.

Sweden will be just fine

2 years from now klam will be adding “survived the Wu Flu” to why Scandinavian socialism is superior


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’m sure they will be fine. Just not as fine as my Norway.

[UNI88]

Links/proof of the bolded?

So you support bailing out poorly run states but decry bailing out poorly run private enterprises (like airlines)?

Economic history: http://news.mit.edu/2020/pandemic-healt ... overy-0401

Houston is requesting a 14-day quarantine for the county and testing for anyone coming into town. E WA now has the same per capita case counts as King County at its peak and I’d be surprised if we don’t go back to phase 1. Miami’s mayor is considering a new stay at home order.

This is happening in numerous locations. Once the R number goes above one, you have exponential spread which is what they’re trying to avoid.

The death rates and numbers are still thankfully low but I just read somewhere that average recovery time is 28 days. 88% of US business have 20 workers or less. Losing even one can be a problem. Not to mention if you are service industry and the case is tracked back to you, even if brought by a customer, you’re likely facing a shutdown by the Dep of Health or at least diminished traffic.

Sweden (again) is another example. Their economy is faring worse than their neighbors. Even if shit is open a good chunk of people simply don’t want to get sick.

Until we improve TTTQ or have a viable vaccine, this will continue to be a rollercoaster that effects the economy.

I support bailing out everyone. That’s why the Fed was invented and it’s why tax rates and spending should have been managed better.

That article also states ...

• The composition of the U.S. economy has evolved since 1918-1919, with relatively less manufacturing today and relatively more activity in services.
• The 1918-1919 pandemic was also especially deadly for prime working-age adults, making its economic impact particularly severe.
• “While one shouldn’t extrapolate too directly from history, we can learn some of the lessons that may be relevant to us today.”
• First among those lessons, he emphasizes: “Pandemic economics are different than normal economics.”

How many times has the US Government printed the amount of money it will take to bail-out individuals, businesses and governments (state and local) for an extended period of time? If it's never happened then you need to look at what has happened in other countries that printed money like crazy such as the Weimar Republic.

You cannot state with certainty that sheltering-in-place will be better for the economy than a careful and phased reopening.

[kalm]

Economic history: http://news.mit.edu/2020/pandemic-healt ... overy-0401

Houston is requesting a 14-day quarantine for the county and testing for anyone coming into town. E WA now has the same per capita case counts as King County at its peak and I’d be surprised if we don’t go back to phase 1. Miami’s mayor is considering a new stay at home order.

This is happening in numerous locations. Once the R number goes above one, you have exponential spread which is what they’re trying to avoid.

The death rates and numbers are still thankfully low but I just read somewhere that average recovery time is 28 days. 88% of US business have 20 workers or less. Losing even one can be a problem. Not to mention if you are service industry and the case is tracked back to you, even if brought by a customer, you’re likely facing a shutdown by the Dep of Health or at least diminished traffic.

Sweden (again) is another example. Their economy is faring worse than their neighbors. Even if shit is open a good chunk of people simply don’t want to get sick.

Until we improve TTTQ or have a viable vaccine, this will continue to be a rollercoaster that effects the economy.

I support bailing out everyone. That’s why the Fed was invented and it’s why tax rates and spending should have been managed better.

That article also states ...

• The composition of the U.S. economy has evolved since 1918-1919, with relatively less manufacturing today and relatively more activity in services.
• The 1918-1919 pandemic was also especially deadly for prime working-age adults, making its economic impact particularly severe.
• “While one shouldn’t extrapolate too directly from history, we can learn some of the lessons that may be relevant to us today.”
• First among those lessons, he emphasizes: “Pandemic economics are different than normal economics.”

How many times has the US Government printed the amount of money it will take to bail-out individuals, businesses and governments (state and local) for an extended period of time? If it's never happened then you need to look at what has happened in other countries that printed money like crazy such as the Weimar Republic.

You cannot state with certainty that sheltering-in-place will be better for the economy than a careful and phased reopening.

There are many firsts. There always is.

When I posted that article in April I acknowledged all of this. It’s all uncertain. History doesn’t repeat but it does echo and sometimes strongly.

[AZGrizFan]

Links/proof of the bolded?

So you support bailing out poorly run states but decry bailing out poorly run private enterprises (like airlines)?

Economic history: http://news.mit.edu/2020/pandemic-healt ... overy-0401

Houston is requesting a 14-day quarantine for the county and testing for anyone coming into town. E WA now has the same per capita case counts as King County at its peak and I’d be surprised if we don’t go back to phase 1. Miami’s mayor is considering a new stay at home order.

This is happening in numerous locations. Once the R number goes above one, you have exponential spread which is what they’re trying to avoid.

The death rates and numbers are still thankfully low but I just read somewhere that average recovery time is 28 days. 88% of US business have 20 workers or less. Losing even one can be a problem. Not to mention if you are service industry and the case is tracked back to you, even if brought by a customer, you’re likely facing a shutdown by the Dep of Health or at least diminished traffic.

Sweden (again) is another example. Their economy is faring worse than their neighbors. Even if shit is open a good chunk of people simply don’t want to get sick.

Until we improve TTTQ or have a viable vaccine, this will continue to be a rollercoaster that effects the economy.

I support bailing out everyone. That’s why the Fed was invented and it’s why tax rates and spending should have been managed better.

so the Fed was invented to bail out poorly run companies and governments? Mmmmmkay......

[Gil Dobie]

If we had known, masks could have prevented the spread, with social distancing and hand washing, might never have needed the lock down. Thing is, would the government trust it's citizens to follow that protocol? Probably not, with all the expert citizens out there that know more than the Mayo Clinic.



Can face masks help prevent the spread of the coronavirus that causes COVID-19? Yes, face masks combined with other preventive measures, such as frequent hand-washing and social distancing, help slow the spread of the virus.

So why weren't face masks recommended at the start of the pandemic? At that time, experts didn't yet know the extent to which people with COVID-19 could spread the virus before symptoms appeared. Nor was it known that some people have COVID-19 but don't have any symptoms. Both groups can unknowingly spread the virus to others.

These discoveries led the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) to do an about-face on face masks. The CDC updated its guidance to recommend widespread use of simple cloth face coverings to help prevent transmission of the virus by people who have COVID-19 but don't know it.

Some public health groups argue that masks should be reserved for health care providers and point to the critical shortage of surgical masks and N95 masks. The CDC acknowledged this concern when it recommended cloth masks for the public and not the surgical and N95 masks needed by health care providers.

[kalm]

Economic history: http://news.mit.edu/2020/pandemic-healt ... overy-0401

Houston is requesting a 14-day quarantine for the county and testing for anyone coming into town. E WA now has the same per capita case counts as King County at its peak and I’d be surprised if we don’t go back to phase 1. Miami’s mayor is considering a new stay at home order.

This is happening in numerous locations. Once the R number goes above one, you have exponential spread which is what they’re trying to avoid.

The death rates and numbers are still thankfully low but I just read somewhere that average recovery time is 28 days. 88% of US business have 20 workers or less. Losing even one can be a problem. Not to mention if you are service industry and the case is tracked back to you, even if brought by a customer, you’re likely facing a shutdown by the Dep of Health or at least diminished traffic.

Sweden (again) is another example. Their economy is faring worse than their neighbors. Even if shit is open a good chunk of people simply don’t want to get sick.

Until we improve TTTQ or have a viable vaccine, this will continue to be a rollercoaster that effects the economy.

I support bailing out everyone. That’s why the Fed was invented and it’s why tax rates and spending should have been managed better.

so the Fed was invented to bail out poorly run companies and governments? Mmmmmkay......

I already made that point.

It was invented to provide liquidity to markets during crisis periods.

If you want true capitalism, then half of the corporations in the US would be bankrupt right now.

[Ibanez]

Oh well then I apologize. Where would we be right now without those bailouts?

Well it’s two separate questions. Bailouts. And Junk bond purchases (and rate reductions).

I’ve NEVER been a fan of bailouts....in ‘08 or now. And I railed against the Fed dropping rates and adding another QE to the QE-infinity that keeps happening. I dont’ know where we’d be, but at least our Fed would have integrity. It has nothing now.

Good point but since when has integrity mattered?

[SDHornet]

And NC is considering reinstating stay at home.

There’s no fucking palatable reason for ANY person to stay home now that the rioters have been allowed to go unchecked for weeks now.

I’d tell any governor/mayor to go pound sand and open my business.

Exactly. I'm going to laugh when the local and state gubmints try to tell everyone they need to stay home again. Good luck with that.

[UNI88]

That article also states ...

How many times has the US Government printed the amount of money it will take to bail-out individuals, businesses and governments (state and local) for an extended period of time? If it's never happened then you need to look at what has happened in other countries that printed money like crazy such as the Weimar Republic.

You cannot state with certainty that sheltering-in-place will be better for the economy than a careful and phased reopening.

There are many firsts. There always is.

When I posted that article in April I acknowledged all of this. It’s all uncertain. History doesn’t repeat but it does echo and sometimes strongly.

You seem pretty certain that the economic impact of the virus will be greater than the economic impact of the response.

I agree history does echo. The old adage that "those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" holds true (and is one of the reasons I disagree with taking down old monuments). But we can't just focus on the echo of the Spanish Flu and ignore the echo of the Weimar Republic and other instances of hyperinflation. We're in uncharted territory and if we screw it up the snowball could turn into an avalanche that will take a decade plus to dig out from under. The knee-jerk response that we have to focus on controlling the virus and the federal government has to pay for it is potentially just as reckless as saying the virus is a hoax and we need to open everything back up.

[SDHornet]

Economic history: http://news.mit.edu/2020/pandemic-healt ... overy-0401

Houston is requesting a 14-day quarantine for the county and testing for anyone coming into town. E WA now has the same per capita case counts as King County at its peak and I’d be surprised if we don’t go back to phase 1. Miami’s mayor is considering a new stay at home order.

This is happening in numerous locations. Once the R number goes above one, you have exponential spread which is what they’re trying to avoid.

The death rates and numbers are still thankfully low but I just read somewhere that average recovery time is 28 days. 88% of US business have 20 workers or less. Losing even one can be a problem. Not to mention if you are service industry and the case is tracked back to you, even if brought by a customer, you’re likely facing a shutdown by the Dep of Health or at least diminished traffic.

Sweden (again) is another example. Their economy is faring worse than their neighbors. Even if shit is open a good chunk of people simply don’t want to get sick.

Until we improve TTTQ or have a viable vaccine, this will continue to be a rollercoaster that effects the economy.

I support bailing out everyone. That’s why the Fed was invented and it’s why tax rates and spending should have been managed better.

Sweden will be just fine

2 years from now klam will be adding “survived the Wu Flu” to why Scandinavian socialism is superior


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kalm]

There are many firsts. There always is.

When I posted that article in April I acknowledged all of this. It’s all uncertain. History doesn’t repeat but it does echo and sometimes strongly.

You seem pretty certain that the economic impact of the virus will be greater than the economic impact of the response.

I agree history does echo. The old adage that "those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" holds true (and is one of the reasons I disagree with taking down old monuments). But we can't just focus on the echo of the Spanish Flu and ignore the echo of the Weimar Republic and other instances of hyperinflation. We're in uncharted territory and if we screw it up the snowball could turn into an avalanche that will take a decade plus to dig out from under. The knee-jerk response that we have to focus on controlling the virus and the federal government has to pay for it is potentially just as reckless as saying the virus is a hoax and we need to open everything back up.

I’m not certain. It’s just a hunch.

To throw your own logic back at ya, the Weimar Republic was not the same as the current US either...natural resources, global currency, markets etc.

[SDHornet]

Why I will laugh at anyone that will advocate for another shutdown.

[kalm]

Why I will laugh at anyone that will advocate for another shutdown.

The virus doesn’t care.

[SDHornet]

Why I will laugh at anyone that will advocate for another shutdown.

The virus doesn’t care.

Agreed. We're living with this thing from here on out. Does no good to try and hide from it.

[GannonFan]

You seem pretty certain that the economic impact of the virus will be greater than the economic impact of the response.

I agree history does echo. The old adage that "those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" holds true (and is one of the reasons I disagree with taking down old monuments). But we can't just focus on the echo of the Spanish Flu and ignore the echo of the Weimar Republic and other instances of hyperinflation. We're in uncharted territory and if we screw it up the snowball could turn into an avalanche that will take a decade plus to dig out from under. The knee-jerk response that we have to focus on controlling the virus and the federal government has to pay for it is potentially just as reckless as saying the virus is a hoax and we need to open everything back up.

I’m not certain. It’s just a hunch.

To throw your own logic back at ya, the Weimar Republic was not the same as the current US either...natural resources, global currency, markets etc.

Well, according to that logic, taken out to it's conclusion, you can never compare anything now to something in the past because there's almost always bound to be some differences. Sophistry at its finest.

[kalm]

I’m not certain. It’s just a hunch.

To throw your own logic back at ya, the Weimar Republic was not the same as the current US either...natural resources, global currency, markets etc.

Well, according to that logic, taken out to it's conclusion, you can never compare anything now to something in the past because there's almost always bound to be some differences. Sophistry at its finest.

You should really try reading the other posts for context before you post.

[Col Hogan]