The Ukraine Crisis

[SeattleGriz]

There's nothing indicating they were air ambulances except Lord Bebo's hunch

Why don't you quit being lazy like UNI and look up what all those planes have in common...medical transport.



If NATO wasn't involved, why were all the transports arriving at the same time? To take all the injured Ukrainians to other countries for treatment?

[houndawg]

Oh. You want a deep discussion about this one? Do you think a stern talking to amounts to a deep discussion?

I think the entire international community has an obligation to intercede here. I do not like my country being complicit to what amounts to a genocide. Israel was created due to religious history and to provide safe haven from persecution and…ironically, genocide. Not to subjugate the other people who already lived there.

Israel has a right to exist and we should support that right. But we do so without any strings attached due mostly to AIPAC.

By not using at least temporary suspension of weapons and financials as a carrot why would anything change?

We are supporting one of the world’s current leading terrorists and his cabinet who are killing kids with our bombs and support.

We are better than this.

What is it that we actually want? Why would anyone listen to us when we don't appear to have any thoughts or ideas on what a peaceful solution would look like? Of course we want a cessation of hostilities - an election is coming up and this issue certainly causes divisions in at least one of our political parties. Shockingly, that hasn't moved the needle on Israel's or Hamas's side to change anything.

We spent the past 4 years castigating Netanyahu and telling everyone what a bad person he is, we spent the past 4 years still trying to reinvent an agreement with Iran from 10 years ago that wasn't a good idea then and surely isn't now, we spent the past 4 years trying to ostracize Saudia Arabia until we figured out that we needed some help in the region and friends, or at least not-enemies, were hard to come by. And of course it's not just this administration, while Trump had success with his Abraham Accords, he didn't do much on the Palestinian side for them, especially when it came to the infringements of Israel's settlements into more and more Palestinian land.

But then again, if the Palestinians were really about peace, they probably should've chosen peace on the multiple times that we stepped into the morass and brought both sides to the table and peace was an option, but Palestine walked away every time. School books in Palestine, if any are left after this, described Jews as non-human and advocated the complete annihilation of Israel. Let's be honest, given the amount of antisemitism that exists in most of the world, I'm sure plenty of countries are good with this. It makes our discussions here of posting the Ten Commandments in rooms and having books celebrate transgenderism as tame by comparison. And this recent explosion of violence was brought on by Hamas, the popularly elected government in Palestine, viscously attacking, raping, ripping bodies apart in the streets while raping them, and then taking hundreds hostage back into tunnels and amongst the population of human shields to further their cause, and occasionally executing these poor souls. There's rarely any mention of this in protests against Israel to stop trying to wipe out Hamas, almost as if Hamas hasn't been doing anything to criticize for the past year, if not the past two decades.

We should be able to work with Israel and we should be able to step to the forefront and bring about a peaceful cessation of current violence. And we should be able to bring both sides to the table and hammer out a long term solution that at least keeps events like Hamas's Oct 7 massacre from happening. But we've failed too many times in the current administration (and others before it, sure, but like with place kickers, you're only as good as your last kick) in too many foreign policy venues that we're impotent right now to do anything, especially considering that we can't turn our focus from a super tight election. It's fine, and it's right, to demand the killing stop immediately. But it's doomed for failure without the follow through to find a more stable future.

yeah we otracized the fuck out them for chainsawing that journalist - hurt them so badly that they had to give Jared Kushner a couple billion and a business partnership



everybody but Netanyahu is cool with wiping out Hamas- except Bibi who needs them around to help him stay out of prison - and that the heartburn is about the bombing of civilians. 40,000 dead civilians, at least half of them women and children, is plenty of revenge for the 1200 Israelis lost - and their surviors will grow up dreaming of a world where they'll have an opportunity to kill them some Israelis. The remaining hostages are already dead as far as the government is concerned, barring some fluke, and many of the already dead ones were killed by Israeli bombs.

[kalm]

What is it that we actually want? Why would anyone listen to us when we don't appear to have any thoughts or ideas on what a peaceful solution would look like? Of course we want a cessation of hostilities - an election is coming up and this issue certainly causes divisions in at least one of our political parties. Shockingly, that hasn't moved the needle on Israel's or Hamas's side to change anything.

We spent the past 4 years castigating Netanyahu and telling everyone what a bad person he is, we spent the past 4 years still trying to reinvent an agreement with Iran from 10 years ago that wasn't a good idea then and surely isn't now, we spent the past 4 years trying to ostracize Saudia Arabia until we figured out that we needed some help in the region and friends, or at least not-enemies, were hard to come by. And of course it's not just this administration, while Trump had success with his Abraham Accords, he didn't do much on the Palestinian side for them, especially when it came to the infringements of Israel's settlements into more and more Palestinian land.

But then again, if the Palestinians were really about peace, they probably should've chosen peace on the multiple times that we stepped into the morass and brought both sides to the table and peace was an option, but Palestine walked away every time. School books in Palestine, if any are left after this, described Jews as non-human and advocated the complete annihilation of Israel. Let's be honest, given the amount of antisemitism that exists in most of the world, I'm sure plenty of countries are good with this. It makes our discussions here of posting the Ten Commandments in rooms and having books celebrate transgenderism as tame by comparison. And this recent explosion of violence was brought on by Hamas, the popularly elected government in Palestine, viscously attacking, raping, ripping bodies apart in the streets while raping them, and then taking hundreds hostage back into tunnels and amongst the population of human shields to further their cause, and occasionally executing these poor souls. There's rarely any mention of this in protests against Israel to stop trying to wipe out Hamas, almost as if Hamas hasn't been doing anything to criticize for the past year, if not the past two decades.

We should be able to work with Israel and we should be able to step to the forefront and bring about a peaceful cessation of current violence. And we should be able to bring both sides to the table and hammer out a long term solution that at least keeps events like Hamas's Oct 7 massacre from happening. But we've failed too many times in the current administration (and others before it, sure, but like with place kickers, you're only as good as your last kick) in too many foreign policy venues that we're impotent right now to do anything, especially considering that we can't turn our focus from a super tight election. It's fine, and it's right, to demand the killing stop immediately. But it's doomed for failure without the follow through to find a more stable future.

yeah we otracized the fuck out them for chainsawing that journalist - hurt them so badly that they had to give Jared Kushner a couple billion and a business partnership



everybody but Netanyahu is cool with wiping out Hamas- except Bibi who needs them around to help him stay out of prison - and that the heartburn is about the bombing of civilians. 40,000 dead civilians, at least half of them women and children, is plenty of revenge for the 1200 Israelis lost - and their surviors will grow up dreaming of a world where they'll have an opportunity to kill them some Israelis. The remaining hostages are already dead as far as the government is concerned, barring some fluke, and many of the already dead ones were killed by Israeli bombs.

[UNI88]

What is it that we actually want? Why would anyone listen to us when we don't appear to have any thoughts or ideas on what a peaceful solution would look like? Of course we want a cessation of hostilities - an election is coming up and this issue certainly causes divisions in at least one of our political parties. Shockingly, that hasn't moved the needle on Israel's or Hamas's side to change anything.

We spent the past 4 years castigating Netanyahu and telling everyone what a bad person he is, we spent the past 4 years still trying to reinvent an agreement with Iran from 10 years ago that wasn't a good idea then and surely isn't now, we spent the past 4 years trying to ostracize Saudia Arabia until we figured out that we needed some help in the region and friends, or at least not-enemies, were hard to come by. And of course it's not just this administration, while Trump had success with his Abraham Accords, he didn't do much on the Palestinian side for them, especially when it came to the infringements of Israel's settlements into more and more Palestinian land.

But then again, if the Palestinians were really about peace, they probably should've chosen peace on the multiple times that we stepped into the morass and brought both sides to the table and peace was an option, but Palestine walked away every time. School books in Palestine, if any are left after this, described Jews as non-human and advocated the complete annihilation of Israel. Let's be honest, given the amount of antisemitism that exists in most of the world, I'm sure plenty of countries are good with this. It makes our discussions here of posting the Ten Commandments in rooms and having books celebrate transgenderism as tame by comparison. And this recent explosion of violence was brought on by Hamas, the popularly elected government in Palestine, viscously attacking, raping, ripping bodies apart in the streets while raping them, and then taking hundreds hostage back into tunnels and amongst the population of human shields to further their cause, and occasionally executing these poor souls. There's rarely any mention of this in protests against Israel to stop trying to wipe out Hamas, almost as if Hamas hasn't been doing anything to criticize for the past year, if not the past two decades.

We should be able to work with Israel and we should be able to step to the forefront and bring about a peaceful cessation of current violence. And we should be able to bring both sides to the table and hammer out a long term solution that at least keeps events like Hamas's Oct 7 massacre from happening. But we've failed too many times in the current administration (and others before it, sure, but like with place kickers, you're only as good as your last kick) in too many foreign policy venues that we're impotent right now to do anything, especially considering that we can't turn our focus from a super tight election. It's fine, and it's right, to demand the killing stop immediately. But it's doomed for failure without the follow through to find a more stable future.

yeah we otracized the fuck out them for chainsawing that journalist - hurt them so badly that they had to give Jared Kushner a couple billion and a business partnership

everybody but Netanyahu is cool with wiping out Hamas- except Bibi who needs them around to help him stay out of prison - and that the heartburn is about the bombing of civilians. 40,000 dead civilians, at least half of them women and children, is plenty of revenge for the 1200 Israelis lost - and their surviors will grow up dreaming of a world where they'll have an opportunity to kill them some Israelis. The remaining hostages are already dead as far as the government is concerned, barring some fluke, and many of the already dead ones were killed by Israeli bombs.

* ostracized

I don't think this is just about the 1,200 Israelis lost. It's about the thousands killed by hamas prior to October 2023 and the thousands that will be killed in the future if hamas is allowed to continue to operate.

[kalm]

yeah we otracized the fuck out them for chainsawing that journalist - hurt them so badly that they had to give Jared Kushner a couple billion and a business partnership

everybody but Netanyahu is cool with wiping out Hamas- except Bibi who needs them around to help him stay out of prison - and that the heartburn is about the bombing of civilians. 40,000 dead civilians, at least half of them women and children, is plenty of revenge for the 1200 Israelis lost - and their surviors will grow up dreaming of a world where they'll have an opportunity to kill them some Israelis. The remaining hostages are already dead as far as the government is concerned, barring some fluke, and many of the already dead ones were killed by Israeli bombs.

* ostracized

I don't think this is just about the 1,200 Israelis lost. It's about the thousands killed by hamas prior to October 2023 and the thousands that will be killed in the future if hamas is allowed to continue to operate.

No question there’s a security angle to it. It’s not simply revenge. However, the most efficient fighting force in the world (their claim) killing innocent Palestinians at these levels also jeopardizes Israel’s future security.

Not to mention operating an open air prison for decades. The inmates eventually become restless.

[Bobcat]

Israel will be just fine in the future.

They understand how to protect their people and are doing it the way it should be done. When you get attacked you hit back so fucking hard and evil that no other country ever wants to fuck with you again. Thats how you win a war. There are no rules in a fight. NONE

Its definitely not surprising Americans cannot grasp that.

[kalm]

Israel will be just fine in the future.

They understand how to protect their people and are doing it the way it should be done. When you get attacked you hit back so fucking hard and evil that no other country ever wants to fuck with you again. Thats how you win a war. There are no rules in a fight. NONE

Its definitely not surprising Americans cannot grasp that.

So attacking innocent non-combatants kids and women in a fist fight is ok?

Punch the guys girlfriend too?

[Bobcat]

yep

If you start something its on you what happens after that. If Hamas didnt want their kids killed they wouldnt have attacked Israel AGAIN!

[UNI88]

yep

If you start something its on you what happens after that. If Hamas didnt want their kids killed they wouldnt have attacked Israel AGAIN!

I don't disagree but the irony of a trump supporter posting this is rich indeed.

[Bobcat]

yep

If you start something its on you what happens after that. If Hamas didnt want their kids killed they wouldnt have attacked Israel AGAIN!

I don't disagree but the irony of a trump supporter posting this is rich indeed.

Im not a Trump supporter, I was wrong and voted for Biden. I could have saved millions of lives if I had voted for Trump and I am going to vote for Trump this time. The world needs a leader like DJT

[SeattleGriz]

Looks like Olaf knows better.

[SeattleGriz]

Israel will be just fine in the future.

They understand how to protect their people and are doing it the way it should be done. When you get attacked you hit back so fucking hard and evil that no other country ever wants to fuck with you again. Thats how you win a war. There are no rules in a fight. NONE

Its definitely not surprising Americans cannot grasp that.

So attacking innocent non-combatants kids and women in a fist fight is ok?

Punch the guys girlfriend too?

Terrorist simp.

You support the big mouthed girlfriend who gets her boyfriend's ass kicked and then whines.

Same thing with Ukraine. They were terrorizing their own citizens and then when Russia finally stepped in, you all of a sudden gave a shit.

[SeattleGriz]

What is it that we actually want? Why would anyone listen to us when we don't appear to have any thoughts or ideas on what a peaceful solution would look like? Of course we want a cessation of hostilities - an election is coming up and this issue certainly causes divisions in at least one of our political parties. Shockingly, that hasn't moved the needle on Israel's or Hamas's side to change anything.

We spent the past 4 years castigating Netanyahu and telling everyone what a bad person he is, we spent the past 4 years still trying to reinvent an agreement with Iran from 10 years ago that wasn't a good idea then and surely isn't now, we spent the past 4 years trying to ostracize Saudia Arabia until we figured out that we needed some help in the region and friends, or at least not-enemies, were hard to come by. And of course it's not just this administration, while Trump had success with his Abraham Accords, he didn't do much on the Palestinian side for them, especially when it came to the infringements of Israel's settlements into more and more Palestinian land.

But then again, if the Palestinians were really about peace, they probably should've chosen peace on the multiple times that we stepped into the morass and brought both sides to the table and peace was an option, but Palestine walked away every time. School books in Palestine, if any are left after this, described Jews as non-human and advocated the complete annihilation of Israel. Let's be honest, given the amount of antisemitism that exists in most of the world, I'm sure plenty of countries are good with this. It makes our discussions here of posting the Ten Commandments in rooms and having books celebrate transgenderism as tame by comparison. And this recent explosion of violence was brought on by Hamas, the popularly elected government in Palestine, viscously attacking, raping, ripping bodies apart in the streets while raping them, and then taking hundreds hostage back into tunnels and amongst the population of human shields to further their cause, and occasionally executing these poor souls. There's rarely any mention of this in protests against Israel to stop trying to wipe out Hamas, almost as if Hamas hasn't been doing anything to criticize for the past year, if not the past two decades.

We should be able to work with Israel and we should be able to step to the forefront and bring about a peaceful cessation of current violence. And we should be able to bring both sides to the table and hammer out a long term solution that at least keeps events like Hamas's Oct 7 massacre from happening. But we've failed too many times in the current administration (and others before it, sure, but like with place kickers, you're only as good as your last kick) in too many foreign policy venues that we're impotent right now to do anything, especially considering that we can't turn our focus from a super tight election. It's fine, and it's right, to demand the killing stop immediately. But it's doomed for failure without the follow through to find a more stable future.

yeah we otracized the fuck out them for chainsawing that journalist - hurt them so badly that they had to give Jared Kushner a couple billion and a business partnership



everybody but Netanyahu is cool with wiping out Hamas- except Bibi who needs them around to help him stay out of prison - and that the heartburn is about the bombing of civilians. 40,000 dead civilians, at least half of them women and children, is plenty of revenge for the 1200 Israelis lost - and their surviors will grow up dreaming of a world where they'll have an opportunity to kill them some Israelis. The remaining hostages are already dead as far as the government is concerned, barring some fluke, and many of the already dead ones were killed by Israeli bombs.

Oh Sweetpea, looks like you got the vapors.

Terrorist simp #2

If only Israel had a pipeline of their own they could blow up, you'd be more happy.

[kalm]

So attacking innocent non-combatants kids and women in a fist fight is ok?

Punch the guys girlfriend too?

Terrorist simp.

You support the big mouthed girlfriend who gets her boyfriend's ass kicked and then whines.

Same thing with Ukraine. They were terrorizing their own citizens and then when Russia finally stepped in, you all of a sudden gave a shit.

Which is why Team Trump is promising Ukraine more weapons if they enter peace talks.

Good god you’re getting worse at this if that’s even possible.

[SeattleGriz]

Say it ain't so! Remember when Putin had cancer, fell and pooped his pants? I do. Awesome job fake media.

[kalm]

Say it ain't so! Remember when Putin had cancer, fell and pooped his pants? I do. Awesome job fake media.

Yep. Admittedly lots of fog of war type stuff as well as propaganda. But to not mention RUS’s own use of propaganda (they’re the champions of the world) or how well the SMO is going makes this tweet one-sided.

[SeattleGriz]

Say it ain't so! Remember when Putin had cancer, fell and pooped his pants? I do. Awesome job fake media.

Yep. Admittedly lots of fog of war type stuff as well as propaganda. But to not mention RUS’s own use of propaganda (they’re the champions of the world) or how well the SMO is going makes this tweet one-sided.

Sorry, no.

It was obvious from the start that Russia would grind Ukraine down to anyone with a clue. All one had to do was realize Ukraine was not given equivalent equipment and the SMO was right on Russia's border.

Remember the stupid Russians and the washing machine narrative? Or the Russia is running out of missiles and artillery narrative?

[Skjellyfetti]

It was obvious from the start that Russia would grind Ukraine down to anyone with a clue.

Russia tried to bum rush Kyiv at the outset. They captured Hostomel airport and if they were able to hold it and fly in troops and heavy equipment they would have taken Kyiv. They weren't able to hold it and it was the most pivotal battle of the war. Once they lost that and abandoned any hope of taking Kyiv, it turned into a grind.

[houndawg]

Yep. Admittedly lots of fog of war type stuff as well as propaganda. But to not mention RUS’s own use of propaganda (they’re the champions of the world) or how well the SMO is going makes this tweet one-sided.

Sorry, no.

It was obvious from the start that Russia would grind Ukraine down to anyone with a clue. All one had to do was realize Ukraine was not given equivalent equipment and the SMO was right on Russia's border.

Remember the stupid Russians and the washing machine narrative? Or the Russia is running out of missiles and artillery narrative?

It was very obvious - we all agreed that Ukraine had no chance against the Russian Army and that this SMO would be over in a weekend and too bad for Ukraine. That was back when we all thought the Russians were tough and capable.

This thing is going to end the same way the Soviet Union ended unless trump is able to come to Vladimir's rescue.

[SeattleGriz]

Sorry, no.

It was obvious from the start that Russia would grind Ukraine down to anyone with a clue. All one had to do was realize Ukraine was not given equivalent equipment and the SMO was right on Russia's border.

Remember the stupid Russians and the washing machine narrative? Or the Russia is running out of missiles and artillery narrative?

It was very obvious - we all agreed that Ukraine had no chance against the Russian Army and that this SMO would be over in a weekend and too bad for Ukraine. That was back when we all thought the Russians were tough and capable.

This thing is going to end the same way the Soviet Union ended unless trump is able to come to Vladimir's rescue.

Who's we? Got a turd in your pocket?

[kalm]

It was very obvious - we all agreed that Ukraine had no chance against the Russian Army and that this SMO would be over in a weekend and too bad for Ukraine. That was back when we all thought the Russians were tough and capable.

This thing is going to end the same way the Soviet Union ended unless trump is able to come to Vladimir's rescue.

Who's we? Got a turd in your pocket?

So you thought Ukraine had a chance?

[houndawg]

It was very obvious - we all agreed that Ukraine had no chance against the Russian Army and that this SMO would be over in a weekend and too bad for Ukraine. That was back when we all thought the Russians were tough and capable.

This thing is going to end the same way the Soviet Union ended unless trump is able to come to Vladimir's rescue.

Who's we? Got a turd in your pocket?

nobody foresaw this outcome.

[SeattleGriz]

Who's we? Got a turd in your pocket?

nobody foresaw this outcome.

The over the weekend part. Nobody thought that.

[SeattleGriz]

Who's we? Got a turd in your pocket?

So you thought Ukraine had a chance?

If you didn't think they had a chance, which I didn't, then why are you continuously against its quick end?

[houndawg]

So you thought Ukraine had a chance?

If you didn't think they had a chance, which I didn't, then why are you continuously against its quick end?

Nobody is against a quick end except the guy that could make one happen tomorrow by withdrawing his invading force....