Gary Johnson, your next POTUS

[UNI88]

Which t-shirt did you get?

Black t-shirt, with "Gary Johnson" in white letters and "'16" in red. Basic, but effective!

I was looking at one of the following
- Everybody Sucks16, Vote Johnson
- Hilary Is For Sale, Trump Is Nuts, Vote Johnson

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[Ivytalk]

I have to go to a funeral today. I wanted to wear my Gary Johnson t-shirt under my suit jacket, but Mrs. Ivy vetoed it.

[Ivytalk]

The latest Fox News poll shows that GJ is rising fast among independents. He's taking more independent votes from Trump than from Hildabeast so far.

[CID1990]

Chillin' and breaking in my new Gary Johnson '16 t-shirt.

Also talking to my good friend, Mr. James Beam, and getting ready to grill some steaks!

Which t-shirt did you get?

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[kalm]

The latest Fox News poll shows that GJ is rising fast among independents. He's taking more independent votes from Trump than from Hildabeast so far.

CNN Poll from two days ago has Johnson at 12% now.

[∞∞∞]

I hope the LP/GP will both qualify for federal funds and hopefully they get to debate on the national stage (it's a bit ridiculous they need to"qualify" for debates when the general election field is small to begin with). We need more diversity in the US political arena.

[kalm]

I hope the LP/GP will both qualify for federal funds and hopefully they get to debate on the national stage (it's a bit ridiculous they need to"qualify" for debates when the general election field is small to begin with). We need more diversity in the US political arena.

Yep, and that is 100% on the major parties which is another reason that you should be voting 3rd party (unless you're unprincipled and hate the constitution and democracy like JSO that is).

http://reason.com/blog/2015/09/24/liber ... sue-commis

[Skjellyfetti]

Would it not violate libertarian principles for the Libertarian Party to fund their campaign through federal $$$$ ?

[OL FU]

Would it not violate libertarian principles for the Libertarian Party to fund their campaign through federal $$$$ ?

I was thinking the same thing

[Ivytalk]

Would it not violate libertarian principles for the Libertarian Party to fund their campaign through federal $$$$ ?

Good point. Just get them to the debates, is all I ask.

Gary has a very responsive website/social media effort going. Libertarians may be geeks, but that trait comes in handy at times like this!

[kalm]

Would it not violate libertarian principles for the Libertarian Party to fund their campaign through federal $$$$ ?

Why would it? They aren't anarchists. That would be like saying a Democratic Socialist has to be opposed to capitalism.

[UNI88]

Would it not violate libertarian principles for the Libertarian Party to fund their campaign through federal $$$$ ?

I was thinking the same thing

Good question and from my perspective yes. That's in a black and white world so they could probably justify it in some way but I would prefer that they took the high road and stuck to their principles.

The most important thing for Gary Johnson and Jill Stein's campaigns isn't the funding, it's getting into the debates. There are a whole lot of people who don't want to vote for Hilary or Trump and if they can participate and do well (or just ok) in the debates they will pick up a lot of votes just from familiarity. Both parties should be scared sh!tless about this possibility.

[Skjellyfetti]

Would it not violate libertarian principles for the Libertarian Party to fund their campaign through federal $$$$ ?

Why would it? They aren't anarchists. That would be like saying a Democratic Socialist has to be opposed to capitalism.

Not really.

Pretty sure the Libertarian Party platform calls for the IRS and FEC to be completely dismantled.

I don't think there is a democratic socialist party... but, I don't think any democratic socialist supports a complete dismantling of capitalism.

It would be more akin to saying that the Communist Party is opposed to capitalism... which... isn't wrong.

[kalm]

Why would it? They aren't anarchists. That would be like saying a Democratic Socialist has to be opposed to capitalism.

Not really.

Pretty sure the Libertarian Party platform calls for the IRS and FEC to be completely dismantled.

I don't think there is a democratic socialist party... but, I don't think any democratic socialist supports a complete dismantling of capitalism.

It would be more akin to saying that the Communist Party is opposed to capitalism... which... isn't wrong.

I don't know their stance on the FEC, but listening the Johnson's interview on the Rogan experience he does recognize the need for government on some level. And it's not as if the FEC is doing its job anyway.

As for your second point, I think you agree with me without realizing it.

[Skjellyfetti]

listening the Johnson's interview on the Rogan experience he does recognize the need for government on some level.

I don't disagree here. Yes, Libertarians do see a need for some government and they're not anarchists.

But, the Constitution leaves elections up to states. The Constitution does not mention or specify Federal funding for elections.

Yes, Libertarians are allowed to believe in a role for government.

But, using public funding to pay for elections... is... a pretty radical step away from their principles. No?

[OL FU]

Would it not violate libertarian principles for the Libertarian Party to fund their campaign through federal $$$$ ?

Why would it? They aren't anarchists. That would be like saying a Democratic Socialist has to be opposed to capitalism.

Realizing he may or may not be your choice but have you been listening to Bernie because he is obviously opposed to capitalism

[OL FU]

listening the Johnson's interview on the Rogan experience he does recognize the need for government on some level.

I don't disagree here. Yes, Libertarians do see a need for some government and they're not anarchists.

But, the Constitution leaves elections up to states. The Constitution does not mention or specify Federal funding for elections.

Yes, Libertarians are allowed to believe in a role for government.

But, using public funding to pay for elections... is... a pretty radical step away from their principles. No?

I agree. You can justify it but they shouldn't . The main thrust of their position us for government to leave us alone . They should stick to that principle.

[CID1990]

Why would it? They aren't anarchists. That would be like saying a Democratic Socialist has to be opposed to capitalism.

Realizing he may or may not be your choice but have you been listening to Bernie because he is obviously opposed to capitalism

I was going to say I was thinking Bernie pretty much put that mystery to bed.


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[kalm]

Realizing he may or may not be your choice but have you been listening to Bernie because he is obviously opposed to capitalism

I was going to say I was thinking Bernie pretty much put that mystery to bed.


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Yes of course. Just like when FDR killed capitalism...or all of those northern Europeans without capitalism.

You and OL FU are better than this.

I for one am glad that Republicans have never supported any government spending, social programs, and bankruptcy laws.

...on account of we'd have to call them socialists too.

[OL FU]

I was going to say I was thinking Bernie pretty much put that mystery to bed.


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Yes of course. Just like when FDR killed capitalism...or all of those northern Europeans without capitalism.

You and OL FU are better than this.

I for one am glad that Republicans have never supported any government spending, social programs, and bankruptcy laws.

...on account of we'd have to call them socialists too.

Actually no I am not better than that

and in no way shape or form does Bernie support capitalism.

[kalm]

Yes of course. Just like when FDR killed capitalism...or all of those northern Europeans without capitalism.

You and OL FU are better than this.

I for one am glad that Republicans have never supported any government spending, social programs, and bankruptcy laws.

...on account of we'd have to call them socialists too.

Actually no I am not better than that

and in no way shape or form does Bernie support capitalism.

I hate to break it to ya, but we are a mixed economy. We have socialist schools, socialist fire deparments, a socialist military, and socialist bankruptcy laws and government bailouts that help out capitalists like Trump and Lloyd Blankfein.

Bernie believes that government should play a bigger role than you. That does not make him opposed to capitalism just like being a democratic socialist does not make one a believer in communism and/or totalitarianism. We're not talking about government controlling the means of production here. Labels are funny.

Here's Bernie on being a democratic socialist. Don't let it scare you and I hope it helps.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/07/1 ... ism-120265

EEEEEKKKK!

[OL FU]

Actually no I am not better than that

and in no way shape or form does Bernie support capitalism.

I hate to break it to ya, but we are a mixed economy. We have socialist schools, socialist fire deparments, a socialist military, and socialist bankruptcy laws and government bailouts that help out capitalists like Trump and Lloyd Blankfein.

Bernie believes that government should play a bigger role than you. That does not make him opposed to capitalism just like being a democratic socialist does not make one a believer in communism and/or totalitarianism. We're not talking about government controlling the means of production here. Labels are funny.

Here's Bernie on being a democratic socialist. Don't let it scare you and I hope it helps.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/07/1 ... ism-120265

EEEEEKKKK!

Thanks for explaining it to this poor dumb simpleton

I never knew we had a mixed economy. I may not be able to sleep at night.

My goodness socialist fire departments

The fact that Bernie, like most modern day socialist, understand that pure socialist economies simply don't work, I would say he considers it a necessary evil that he will have to live with and attempt to re-direct the resources toward more civic minded and progressive goals. That doesn't qualify as support.

[kalm]

I hate to break it to ya, but we are a mixed economy. We have socialist schools, socialist fire deparments, a socialist military, and socialist bankruptcy laws and government bailouts that help out capitalists like Trump and Lloyd Blankfein.

Bernie believes that government should play a bigger role than you. That does not make him opposed to capitalism just like being a democratic socialist does not make one a believer in communism and/or totalitarianism. We're not talking about government controlling the means of production here. Labels are funny.

Here's Bernie on being a democratic socialist. Don't let it scare you and I hope it helps.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/07/1 ... ism-120265

EEEEEKKKK!

Thanks for explaining it to this poor dumb simpleton

I never knew we had a mixed economy. I may not be able to sleep at night.

My goodness socialist fire departments

The fact that Bernie, like most modern day socialist, understand that pure socialist economies simply don't work, I would say he considers it a necessary evil that he will have to live with and attempt to re-direct the resources toward more civic minded and progressive goals. That doesn't qualify as support.

There's also no such thing as pure capitalism.

[OL FU]

Thanks for explaining it to this poor dumb simpleton

I never knew we had a mixed economy. I may not be able to sleep at night.

My goodness socialist fire departments

The fact that Bernie, like most modern day socialist, understand that pure socialist economies simply don't work, I would say he considers it a necessary evil that he will have to live with and attempt to re-direct the resources toward more civic minded and progressive goals. That doesn't qualify as support.

There's also no such thing as pure capitalism.

Well obviously but is it much closer to the case than pure socialism. The basic definition of capitalism is industry under private control for private enrichment. (Now I will treat you like you are a simpleton ) We are much closer to that than pure socialism. But as I said, there really aren't any pure socialist any more because the economic system has proven to be a failure.

You may find this hard to believe but to the extent that Democratic socialism is basically maintaining at some level the safety net whether through retirement or job loss etc, them at some level I too am a democratic socialist. If fact most of us are at some level. I am sure that Bernie and I are not in agreement on the level of that safety net. To the extent that democratic socialism wants to direct the resources of business to meet their political objectives, then I oppose. (and I am not talking about reasonable taxation)



But when it comes to capitalism and business, I have been searching for some statement, any statement where Bernie thought business was good. About the least critical remark I have found is that he didn't like Uber but only because it was too unregulated.

[kalm]

There's also no such thing as pure capitalism.

Well obviously but is it much closer to the case than pure socialism. The basic definition of capitalism is industry under private control for private enrichment. (Now I will treat you like you are a simpleton ) We are much closer to that than pure socialism. But as I said, there really aren't any pure socialist any more because the economic system has proven to be a failure.

You may find this hard to believe but to the extent that Democratic socialism is basically maintaining at some level the safety net whether through retirement or job loss etc, them at some level I too am a democratic socialist. If fact most of us are at some level. I am sure that Bernie and I are not in agreement on the level of that safety net. To the extent that democratic socialism wants to direct the resources of business to meet their political objectives, then I oppose. (and I am not talking about reasonable taxation)



But when it comes to capitalism and business, I have been searching for some statement, any statement where Bernie thought business was good. About the least critical remark I have found is that he didn't like Uber but only because it was too unregulated.

Very good. We are pretty damn close on this after all.

Regarding Bernie and business...

A quick Google search shows his own website where he's done some things to support small businesses but as expected he's strongly opposed to large corporate control of the markets. Ironically, shouldn't a conservative be as well? Monopoly stifles competition which is a core principle of capitalism, no?

I'm not suggesting Bernie is pro business. There's much to be concerned with regarding regulation and taxation. That's why I lean Johnson. But I'm not scared of Bernie either as small businesses have thrived in places run by democratic socialists (eg: Burlington Vermont )