I Wonder if Obama Even Cares....

[SDHornet]

I know Gary Johnson personally and thinks he's a great guy and a far better candidate than Trump or the Democrat shithead, but I won't vote for him. A vote for Gary Johnson is a vote for Hillary. No fucking way I will do anything that might benefit that bitch.

This is only true in the 3 states that are going to decide the election...you're also assuming that Johnson is only pulling traditional conk voters from the middle.

[AZGrizFan]

I know Gary Johnson personally and thinks he's a great guy and a far better candidate than Trump or the Democrat shithead, but I won't vote for him. A vote for Gary Johnson is a vote for Hillary. No fucking way I will do anything that might benefit that bitch.

This is only true in the 3 states that are going to decide the election...you're also assuming that Johnson is only pulling traditional conk voters from the middle.

Agreed. It's also very possible he pulls conservative Dems who believe in a semblance of fiscal conservatism with the social freedoms espoused by the libertarian party.

Now, if the "third party" candidate was a Ted Cruz or someone like that then I'd agree it'd be a vote for the Hildabeast.

[Ivytalk]

This is only true in the 3 states that are going to decide the election...you're also assuming that Johnson is only pulling traditional conk voters from the middle.

Agreed. It's also very possible he pulls conservative Dems who believe in a semblance of fiscal conservatism with the social freedoms espoused by the libertarian party.

Now, if the "third party" candidate was a Ted Cruz or someone like that then I'd agree it'd be a vote for the Hildabeast.

That's what, 25 people?

[AZGrizFan]

Agreed. It's also very possible he pulls conservative Dems who believe in a semblance of fiscal conservatism with the social freedoms espoused by the libertarian party.

Now, if the "third party" candidate was a Ted Cruz or someone like that then I'd agree it'd be a vote for the Hildabeast.

That's what, 25 people?

Come on. I believe that describes the middle 25-30% of Americans.

[Ivytalk]

That's what, 25 people?

Come on. I believe that describes the middle 25-30% of Americans.

Conservative Democrats? I doubt it.

[AZGrizFan]

Come on. I believe that describes the middle 25-30% of Americans.

Conservative Democrats? I doubt it.

Fiscally conservative, smaller government proponents who believe the gov't should stay out of social issues? Take out the word "Dem"...

[Ivytalk]

Conservative Democrats? I doubt it.

Fiscally conservative, smaller government proponents who believe the gov't should stay out of social issues? Take out the word "Dem"...

That's an important change. There may be enough like-minded Republicans and independents to reach that threshold.

[kalm]

Fiscally conservative, smaller government proponents who believe the gov't should stay out of social issues? Take out the word "Dem"...

That's an important change. There may be enough like-minded Republicans and independents to reach that threshold.

I think there's quite a few "liberals" fed up with the Democratic Party who might be willing to give Johnson a try.

[89Hen]

Good oped here...

http://ariarmstrong.com/2016/06/should- ... president/

Arguably, this year Johnson is bigger than the Libertarian Party such that he largely escapes its problems. I think a liberty advocate can reasonably argue, “I’m voting for Johnson because of his record and policy positions, not because he’s a Libertarian, and voting for him this year as a protest will send a strong message to the Republican Party that it needs to shape up—or be replaced by a viable liberty party.”

But I think voting for Clinton, voting for another minor-party or independent candidate, or not voting in the presidential race would send a similar message.

The key is for people who cast a protest vote, whatever its form, to clearly and publicly articulate why they are casting a protest vote. It is the public articulation, not the vote itself, that is most important in terms of influencing the future direction of American politics.

[CAA Flagship]

That's an important change. There may be enough like-minded Republicans and independents to reach that threshold.

I think there's quite a few "liberals" fed up with the Democratic Party who might be willing to give Johnson a try.

Mostly the males.

[Ivytalk]

Good oped here...

http://ariarmstrong.com/2016/06/should- ... president/

Arguably, this year Johnson is bigger than the Libertarian Party such that he largely escapes its problems. I think a liberty advocate can reasonably argue, “I’m voting for Johnson because of his record and policy positions, not because he’s a Libertarian, and voting for him this year as a protest will send a strong message to the Republican Party that it needs to shape up—or be replaced by a viable liberty party.”

But I think voting for Clinton, voting for another minor-party or independent candidate, or not voting in the presidential race would send a similar message.

The key is for people who cast a protest vote, whatever its form, to clearly and publicly articulate why they are casting a protest vote. It is the public articulation, not the vote itself, that is most important in terms of influencing the future direction of American politics.

And, lo and behold, 89 finds his niche in a "small-l" libertarian article!

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Fiscally conservative, smaller government proponents who believe the gov't should stay out of social issues? Take out the word "Dem"...

That's an important change. There may be enough like-minded Republicans and independents to reach that threshold.

I think this may be a perspective thing on what a Democrat is from your view as opposed to possibly AZ/Me/other ND, SD, WA posters see as to what a democrat is...for the most part.

Both sets of grandparents for instance were farmers. Hard working mofo's their whole lives along with their sons and daughters and some grandchildren also following in those footsteps. Almost all were Democrats.

I am very sure a ton of the old scholl Democrats would wipe the fucking floor with a lot of the Democrats you refer to. Yes, they are still around btw...the old school type Democrats that is. As you point out though their numbers are probably dwindling but I think AZ is right in that a ton of those sorts of Dems would/will vote for Johnson.

[AZGrizFan]

I am very sure a ton of the old scholl Democrats would wipe the fucking floor with a lot of the Democrats you refer to. Yes, they are still around btw...the old school type Democrats that is. As you point out though their numbers are probably dwindling but I think AZ is right in that a ton of those sorts of Dems would/will vote for Johnson.

Always laugh at my sisters (5 of 7 hardcore dems) when we find common ground on so many social issues.

The REALLY want to paint me as nothing but a younger, better looking Ted Cruz, but I foil them at every turn. I'm neither younger NOR as polarizing as him.

Now, better looking? By a damned sight....

[kalm]

Good oped here...

http://ariarmstrong.com/2016/06/should- ... president/

And, lo and behold, 89 finds his niche in a "small-l" libertarian article!

Voting GJ sends a stronger message than not voting or voting Clinton.

[89Hen]

Voting GJ sends a stronger message than not voting or voting Clinton.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

I am very sure a ton of the old scholl Democrats would wipe the fucking floor with a lot of the Democrats you refer to. Yes, they are still around btw...the old school type Democrats that is. As you point out though their numbers are probably dwindling but I think AZ is right in that a ton of those sorts of Dems would/will vote for Johnson.

Always laugh at my sisters (5 of 7 hardcore dems) when we find common ground on so many social issues.

The REALLY want to paint me as nothing but a younger, better looking Ted Cruz, but I foil them at every turn. I'm neither younger NOR as polarizing as him.

Now, better looking? By a damned sight....

You're a handsome motherfucker, I'll give you that.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

school

[AZGrizFan]

Always laugh at my sisters (5 of 7 hardcore dems) when we find common ground on so many social issues.

The REALLY want to paint me as nothing but a younger, better looking Ted Cruz, but I foil them at every turn. I'm neither younger NOR as polarizing as him.

Now, better looking? By a damned sight....

You're a handsome motherfucker, I'll give you that.

To be fair, Cruz DOES set that bar awful low to start with....

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

I really just wish you would stop typing his name. That fucker just makes my skin crawl.

[Ivytalk]

That's an important change. There may be enough like-minded Republicans and independents to reach that threshold.

I think this may be a perspective thing on what a Democrat is from your view as opposed to possibly AZ/Me/other ND, SD, WA posters see as to what a democrat is...for the most part.

Both sets of grandparents for instance were farmers. Hard working mofo's their whole lives along with their sons and daughters and some grandchildren also following in those footsteps. Almost all were Democrats.

I am very sure a ton of the old scholl Democrats would wipe the **** floor with a lot of the Democrats you refer to. Yes, they are still around btw...the old school type Democrats that is. As you point out though their numbers are probably dwindling but I think AZ is right in that a ton of those sorts of Dems would/will vote for Johnson.

Ursus, many of the old farm families in Slower Lower Delaware were Democrats as well. Most are conservative Protestants; many -- especially the younger generation -- have flipped to GOP or indy. Until 2014, my state senator was the most conservative Democrat in the legislature. That year, he got beat by a younger, equally conservative Republican who matched his religious right street cred but beat him on taxes. That said, my mother-in-law was an active Rockefeller Republican for years -- talk about endangered species -- and now is a Democratic Sanders supporter. Go figure.

[Ibanez]

I am very sure a ton of the old scholl Democrats would wipe the fucking floor with a lot of the Democrats you refer to. Yes, they are still around btw...the old school type Democrats that is. As you point out though their numbers are probably dwindling but I think AZ is right in that a ton of those sorts of Dems would/will vote for Johnson.

Always laugh at my sisters (5 of 7 hardcore dems) when we find common ground on so many social issues.

The REALLY want to paint me as nothing but a younger, better looking Ted Cruz, but I foil them at every turn. I'm neither younger NOR as polarizing as him.

Now, better looking? By a damned sight....

True. You're just as creepy as Cruz.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ibanez]

I really just wish you would stop typing his name. That fucker just makes my skin crawl.

Ted Cruz' skin crawls at the sight/sound if his name as well.

[kalm]

Voting GJ sends a stronger message than not voting or voting Clinton.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion.

Damn straight and in this case I happen to be right.

Maher interviewed GJ last week, describing he and Weld as "classical Republicans" and Trump as "crazy Republican" (the evangelicals like him as proof). That bit about Trump is arguable but the part Maher left out was that Hillary is neo- Republican.

GJ is a fiscal conservative with a record of reigning in government. If he does the same as last time (1%) and Hillary wins, what does that say?

If he gets 10% and Hillary wins that suggests some conservative ideals still have traction.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

God damnit.

[kalm]

God damnit.

Don't worry. I liked your story about your relatives. There used to be some legit, hard working, salt of the earth Democrats out there, but the decline of the family farm and the unions have diminished their numbers.