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89Hen wrote:Flaggy, let me ask you this... why does Fannie/Freddie, FHA and VA all have different loan limits for different counties? Why not just one limit for everywhere? The housing market will figure it out.

We're talking taxes. Not loans. Taxes.

OL FU wrote:

CAA Flagship wrote: But the increased cost of living INCLUDES the tax implications. You just got used to it and forgot about it.

So when is the next music poll

January
It will help with the post-holiday blues.

CAA Flagship wrote:

89Hen wrote:Flaggy, let me ask you this... why does Fannie/Freddie, FHA and VA all have different loan limits for different counties? Why not just one limit for everywhere? The housing market will figure it out.

We're talking taxes. Not loans. Taxes.

We're talking about mortgages and their deductiblity.

89Hen wrote:

CAA Flagship wrote: We're talking taxes. Not loans. Taxes.

We're talking about mortgages and their deductiblity.

No. I'm not talking about that. I was talking about the state and local tax deductions on fed taxes.
I haven't read enough on the housing related tax changes to comment. But on the surface, yeah, it sounds crazy.

The SALT deductions are an effort to make adjustment to cost of living. I'm saying that cost of living should be left to the wage market. I don't think the fed govt, as they relate to taxes, should try to make considerations for geographic differences. Wage payers are much more nimble to make appropriate adjustments to changes in cost of living, of which, fed, state, and local taxes are a part of.

The mortgage deduction will be the interesting thing. Economists almost generally say it's not money well spent - it inflates the value of homes, it encourages people to park money in homes that could be spent elsewhere, it exposes the economy to significant impacts when the housing market hits a downturn (2008), and it generally favors people with larger homes in higher income areas. And there aren't really that many countries that allow income taxes to be reduced based on housing loans - we're a bit of an outlier there. Of course, the crux of something like this is the suddenness of it - having this deduction go away overnight (well, from one year to the next) with little indication that it was going to happen is surely going to have an instantaneous drop in housing prices and will jack up the taxes on people who are heavily in debt to a house. It could very well be a painful experiment in tax policy as we see how the market reacts and corrects itself in this new reality.

Just looked at my current principal mortgage balance. $454,127.72

I just saw that the GOP is supposed to have a tax calculator out next week so people can calculate the impact on their tax bill.

HI54UNI wrote:I just saw that the GOP is supposed to have a tax calculator out next week so people can calculate the impact on their tax bill.

No offense, but what's so difficult about doing the math now? Taxes for individuals are not terribly complicated, especially if there's no investment income. The real important stuff is in the details - when does the family tax credit for dependents start to phase out and how quickly does it phase out - they haven't been terribly clear with that yet.

HI54UNI wrote:I just saw that the GOP is supposed to have a tax calculator out next week so people can calculate the impact on their tax bill.

There's a few out there (at least for non-complicated ones like mine...aka. single).

Mine goes down about $200 from last year's taxes, but I'm also making more so the difference is a little higher.

Not really worth it though if the GOP cuts other benefits (like the ACA) to struggling Americans. I guess I can put my money where my mouth is and donate the extra savings.

GannonFan wrote:

HI54UNI wrote:I just saw that the GOP is supposed to have a tax calculator out next week so people can calculate the impact on their tax bill.

No offense, but what's so difficult about doing the math now? Taxes for individuals are not terribly complicated, especially if there's no investment income. The real important stuff is in the details - when does the family tax credit for dependents start to phase out and how quickly does it phase out - they haven't been terribly clear with that yet.

My last tax return barely fit into a one-inch binder. No chance in hell I'd be able to figure out my new taxes without the help of my accounting firm. And that costs money....speaking of....will I still be able to deduct my tax preparations with the new tax reform?

GannonFan wrote:The mortgage deduction will be the interesting thing. Economists almost generally say it's not money well spent - it inflates the value of homes, it encourages people to park money in homes that could be spent elsewhere, it exposes the economy to significant impacts when the housing market hits a downturn (2008), and it generally favors people with larger homes in higher income areas. And there aren't really that many countries that allow income taxes to be reduced based on housing loans - we're a bit of an outlier there. Of course, the crux of something like this is the suddenness of it - having this deduction go away overnight (well, from one year to the next) with little indication that it was going to happen is surely going to have an instantaneous drop in housing prices and will jack up the taxes on people who are heavily in debt to a house. It could very well be a painful experiment in tax policy as we see how the market reacts and corrects itself in this new reality.

Doing some quick math on the mortgage deduction reduction:
$500k mortgage = approx $20k in interest per year.
$20k taxable income @ 35% = $7k in taxes per year.
$20k taxable income @ 25% = $4k in taxes per year.

Not sure what to think about that.

bluehenbillk wrote:I strongly encourage EVERYONE to educate themselves on this and calculate how it effects you.

Why? I'm not ever voting Republican again regardless. Whatever they do with taxes is to me like the wind and the rain. It's just something that happens.

As far as the plan itself goes, I'm not surprised that it has issues. You've got Republicans who made a Faustian bargain in refusing to repudiate an atrocity who have a certain philosophy with respect to tax policy. But the atrocity doesn't have any clue and just says crap he thinks sounds good. Now they have to try to find a way to manage that.

I'm down with this new tax code. Any household with dual incomes (not making a career in fast food) is likely already in the 25% bracket, and that won't change with this plan. So the net gain will be with the increased deductible that will net them some savings.

Not really seeing a problem with the home loan interest deductible cap. Sure those bankers and real estate agents that are gaming the system will bitch and moan, but fuck them. Housing has already exceeded the cost of what most middle income folks can afford so if anything maybe this move helps re-correct the housing market...oh and since the tax payers are covering the risks of that market anyways then that's even more of a reason to like this cap. My hope is the cap will cause people to stop buying more house than they should or taking more loan out than they should (probably wishful thinking).

As far as how this new plan impacts me...probably very minimally, if anything I'll see a few more grand in my pocket so yay. I do like how this plan fucks blue states. If this plan passes (doubt it does), I hope it accelerates the collapse of this socialist state I live in.

bandl wrote:

GannonFan wrote:
No offense, but what's so difficult about doing the math now? Taxes for individuals are not terribly complicated, especially if there's no investment income. The real important stuff is in the details - when does the family tax credit for dependents start to phase out and how quickly does it phase out - they haven't been terribly clear with that yet.

My last tax return barely fit into a one-inch binder. No chance in hell I'd be able to figure out my new taxes without the help of my accounting firm. And that costs money....speaking of....will I still be able to deduct my tax preparations with the new tax reform?

I think I saw where tax prep fees are no longer deductible under the plan.

GannonFan wrote:

HI54UNI wrote:I just saw that the GOP is supposed to have a tax calculator out next week so people can calculate the impact on their tax bill.

No offense, but what's so difficult about doing the math now? Taxes for individuals are not terribly complicated, especially if there's no investment income. The real important stuff is in the details - when does the family tax credit for dependents start to phase out and how quickly does it phase out - they haven't been terribly clear with that yet.

Why no offense? It's not my calculator. What do I have to be offended about?

I already figured out my savings. It's going to be a good deal for our household. Having said that do you know most Americans? How many people go to HR Block to have them fill out their 1040EZ form? I know an accounting major that does that.

Do any of you guys care if it increases the annual deficits over what they would otherwise have been?

JohnStOnge wrote:Do any of you guys care if it increases the annual deficits over what they would otherwise have been?

Deficits don't matter.

JohnStOnge wrote:Do any of you guys care if it increases the annual deficits over what they would otherwise have been?

I do. I'd rather have them leave taxes where they are and cut spending. But we all know that isn't going to happen.

$23 Billion in Credits Claimed by Illegal Immigrants Would be Canceled Under GOP Tax Bill

https://www.westernjournalism.com/23-bi ... ingbuttons

JohnStOnge wrote:Do any of you guys care if it increases the annual deficits over what they would otherwise have been?

No. And your gal Hillary don’t, either.

Ivytalk wrote:

JohnStOnge wrote:Do any of you guys care if it increases the annual deficits over what they would otherwise have been?

No. And your gal Hillary don’t, either.

It's not as if JSO is some high integrity voter - he's a party elite kinda guy. The GOP went populist so naturally he shifted to Hillary and her oligarchy setup in the Democratic party. I think JSO would be a Stalin voter if he was still alive. There's a guy who knew how to stamp out uppity populism.

Chizzang wrote:

SDHornet wrote:I'm down with this new tax code. Any household with dual incomes (not making a career in fast food) is likely already in the 25% bracket, and that won't change with this plan. So the net gain will be with the increased deductible that will net them some savings.

Not really seeing a problem with the home loan interest deductible cap. Sure those bankers and real estate agents that are gaming the system will bitch and moan, but fuck them. Housing has already exceeded the cost of what most middle income folks can afford so if anything maybe this move helps re-correct the housing market...oh and since the tax payers are covering the risks of that market anyways then that's even more of a reason to like this cap. My hope is the cap will cause people to stop buying more house than they should or taking more loan out than they should (probably wishful thinking).

As far as how this new plan impacts me...probably very minimally, if anything I'll see a few more grand in my pocket so yay. I do like how this plan fucks blue states. If this plan passes (doubt it does), I hope it accelerates the collapse of this socialist state I live in.

The greater good is not whether wealthy people get less tax breaks, it's weather the tax code can grow the economy. There is no greater economic engine than the construction of a house, especially expensive ones. There's the construction of the house, the manufacturing of flooring, carpeting, and appliances, painting, landscaping, etc. It's important to not stifle the homebuilding industry. I don't know if this tax plan will negatively impact hombuilding, but it seems to be flirting with it.

CAA Flagship wrote:

SDHornet wrote:I'm down with this new tax code. Any household with dual incomes (not making a career in fast food) is likely already in the 25% bracket, and that won't change with this plan. So the net gain will be with the increased deductible that will net them some savings.

Not really seeing a problem with the home loan interest deductible cap. Sure those bankers and real estate agents that are gaming the system will bitch and moan, but fuck them. Housing has already exceeded the cost of what most middle income folks can afford so if anything maybe this move helps re-correct the housing market...oh and since the tax payers are covering the risks of that market anyways then that's even more of a reason to like this cap. My hope is the cap will cause people to stop buying more house than they should or taking more loan out than they should (probably wishful thinking).

As far as how this new plan impacts me...probably very minimally, if anything I'll see a few more grand in my pocket so yay. I do like how this plan fucks blue states. If this plan passes (doubt it does), I hope it accelerates the collapse of this socialist state I live in.

The greater good is not whether wealthy people get less tax breaks, it's weather the tax code can grow the economy. There is no greater economic engine than the construction of a house, especially expensive ones. There's the construction of the house, the manufacturing of flooring, carpeting, and appliances, painting, landscaping, etc. It's important to not stifle the homebuilding industry. I don't know if this tax plan will negatively impact hombuilding, but it seems to be flirting with it.

So you mean housing might actually be affordable for the middle class? Oh darn.