Which threatens the republic more?

[UNI88]

Bernie is an extremist - no doubt
But he's just reacting to Trump being an extremist - that's the game now days

However, back on topic
The Green New Deal is nothing to be afraid of if you actually read it

He’s as extremist as FDR...or Ike...I tell ya!

Did FDR give away a lot of free sh!t as part of his New Deal? Or was there an exchange of value? Did people get social security for free or did they have to contribute? If they were unemployed and needed money did the government just give them money? Or did they have to go to where the government had work (TVA, Timberline Lodge, etc.) and bust their ass? We can argue about the value of FDR's New Deal but it was a whole lot different from today's Green New Deal. JFK and "ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country" wouldn't be accepted in today's Democratic Party.

[CID1990]

But, but, but Bernie is an extremist!!!!!!!!!!!

Bernie is an extremist - no doubt
But he's just reacting to Trump being an extremist - that's the game now days

However, back on topic
The Green New Deal is nothing to be afraid of if you actually read it

I read it but I was unable to find the section about us compelling China and India to come along for the ride


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[houndawg]

Yeah we value them so much we'd rather let a psychopath pop into a gun show and get something to gun down your kids with at school than inconvenience some POS loser like Alphajizz.

Nice deflection Houndy. There is truth to the entire idea so you attempt to avoid that truth by focusing on a small part?

Common tactic around here - probably done it yourself. So gunning down kids at school is just a "small part" of individual rights?

[houndawg]

He’s as extremist as FDR...or Ike...I tell ya!

Did FDR give away a lot of free sh!t as part of his New Deal? Or was there an exchange of value? Did people get social security for free or did they have to contribute? If they were unemployed and needed money did the government just give them money? Or did they have to go to where the government had work (TVA, Timberline Lodge, etc.) and bust their ass? We can argue about the value of FDR's New Deal but it was a whole lot different from today's Green New Deal. JFK and "ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country" wouldn't be accepted in today's Democratic Party.

And Dwight Eisenmnower would be lucky to escape lynching in today's Repuublican party - keep going, you're on to something here.

[houndawg]

wonder how much income those .01% lost over the past two days?

Poor bastards. I don't know why they have to pay taxes at all.

(most of them already sold short)

[HI54UNI]

Wow. You left off all the batshit crazy stuff from the GND. Nice fake news, Chizzy.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/docume ... al-FAQ.pdf

A bunch of pie-in-the-sky socialist wet-dreams with absolutely ZERO plan as how they’d actually accomplish these things or what economic impact they’d have.

Um, take a deep breath Chico
that PDF you attached is the "Committee overview"
Kinda like the New Trump Healthcare plan - remember that one..?

It's awaiting a committee

The Senate voted on it. It failed.

And 43 brave Democrats voted "present" instead of voting yes.

[kalm]

He’s as extremist as FDR...or Ike...I tell ya!

Did FDR give away a lot of free sh!t as part of his New Deal? Or was there an exchange of value? Did people get social security for free or did they have to contribute? If they were unemployed and needed money did the government just give them money? Or did they have to go to where the government had work (TVA, Timberline Lodge, etc.) and bust their ass? We can argue about the value of FDR's New Deal but it was a whole lot different from today's Green New Deal. JFK and "ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country" wouldn't be accepted in today's Democratic Party.

Pearl clutching. No more extreme than the extractionary economy of the last 30 years.

[Winterborn]

This is me spitballing but I think it could be argued that not just our republic but our cultural identity is threatened by the attempts by Bernie, Warren, AOC, etc. to shift the US to the left.

The American cultural identity is different than Canada, Europe and other parts of the world. We value the individual and his/her rights more than most societies and Bernie, Warren, AOC, etc. want to shift our priorities to valuing the collective more.

I’ve posted about how America’s greatness comes from the interplay and compromise between compassion (the left) and self-reliance (the right). Giving it some thought, collaboration is a better word than compassion. The interplay between collaboration and self-reliance has been an underlying theme of our identity for 400 years. The first settlers had to be self-reliant but they also had to collaborate in order to survive. This interplay continued throughout our nation’s development and was strengthened by it. The nation’s overall success despite many formidable challenges (Revolution, War of 1812, Civil War, etc.) which would have bested most developing nations contributed to and was a result of our Yin (collaboration) and Yang (self-reliance).

Another important aspect of this is that in the past our collaboration has for the most part been voluntary and community-based. It was not dictated by the government. When the government did step in, it was typically during times of crisis and there was a finite timeline before things would return to normal. Bernie, Warren, AOC, etc. are advocating for a permanent change in our cultural identity

They believe that we can become more European (collaborative and compassionate) with the simple passage of a few extensive bills (Green New Deal, Medicare for All, etc.) and they’re willing to sacrifice our self-reliance to do it. But you don’t change an identity that has been 400 years in the making in one, four or eight years. That shift will be long, divisive and at the risk of tearing the republic apart.

The communities that used to provide collaboration and compassion have broken down with technology, urbanization, etc. and that leaves a gap that should be filled. I support trying to provide a safety net (healthcare, training/education, childcare) for those in need but we should come up with a solution that works for the American people and our relatively unique cultural identity not just copy Canada or Europe.

I have some quibbles about the "safety net" but overall nicely put.

[UNI88]

Did FDR give away a lot of free sh!t as part of his New Deal? Or was there an exchange of value? Did people get social security for free or did they have to contribute? If they were unemployed and needed money did the government just give them money? Or did they have to go to where the government had work (TVA, Timberline Lodge, etc.) and bust their ass? We can argue about the value of FDR's New Deal but it was a whole lot different from today's Green New Deal. JFK and "ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country" wouldn't be accepted in today's Democratic Party.

Pearl clutching. No more extreme than the extractionary economy of the last 30 years.

And should we also discuss the Donk's dependency economy?

[AZGrizFan]

wonder how much income those .01% lost over the past two days?

Poor bastards. I don't know why they have to pay taxes at all.

Most of them don’t.

[AZGrizFan]

Pearl clutching. No more extreme than the extractionary economy of the last 30 years.

And should we also discuss the Donk's dependency economy?

Preach.

[∞∞∞]

Did FDR give away a lot of free sh!t as part of his New Deal? Or was there an exchange of value? Did people get social security for free or did they have to contribute? If they were unemployed and needed money did the government just give them money? Or did they have to go to where the government had work (TVA, Timberline Lodge, etc.) and bust their ass? We can argue about the value of FDR's New Deal but it was a whole lot different from today's Green New Deal. JFK and "ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country" wouldn't be accepted in today's Democratic Party.

Pearl clutching. No more extreme than the extractionary economy of the last 30 years.

The US economy is more productive now per capita than it ever was during the New Deal or WWII, something like 3x as much.

Yet the wage gap is something like 900x higher now.

Basically it's way better for people and society to work for government than capitalists.

[kalm]

Pearl clutching. No more extreme than the extractionary economy of the last 30 years.

And should we also discuss the Donk's dependency economy?

Absolutely! Let’s discuss it!

[AZGrizFan]

Pearl clutching. No more extreme than the extractionary economy of the last 30 years.

The US economy is more productive now per capita than it ever was during the New Deal or WWII, something like 3x as much.

Yet the wage gap is something like 900x higher now.

Basically it's way better for people and society to work for government than capitalists.

Once again, spouting bullshit without any links to back up the bullshit. You have become the absolute KING of that here.

[UNI88]

Pearl clutching. No more extreme than the extractionary economy of the last 30 years.

The US economy is more productive now per capita than it ever was during the New Deal or WWII, something like 3x as much.

Yet the wage gap is something like 900x higher now.

Basically it's way better for people and society to work for government than capitalists.

How much more productive are government workers now? My guess is that their productivity hasn't increased anywhere near 3x as much.

I don't disagree that they average professional should be paid more. I just don't have a lot of faith in the government's ability to make that happen without making other things much worse so that more drastic fixes are needed. Kind of like when they got involved in the student loan business. Great intentions, but they fvcked it up.

When I graduated from college the general consensus was that you could work in the public sector for lower pay but better benefits and that you wouldn't have to work as hard or you could work in the private sector for higher pay and greater opportunities. That has changed, now public sector workers get better pay, better benefits and they still don't have to work as hard. That's what happens when public sector unions can use their funds and manpower to help elect officials who are going to butter their muffins.

[kalm]

The US economy is more productive now per capita than it ever was during the New Deal or WWII, something like 3x as much.

Yet the wage gap is something like 900x higher now.

Basically it's way better for people and society to work for government than capitalists.

How much more productive are government workers now? My guess is that their productivity hasn't increased anywhere near 3x as much.

I don't disagree that they average professional should be paid more. I just don't have a lot of faith in the government's ability to make that happen without making other things much worse so that more drastic fixes are needed. Kind of like when they got involved in the student loan business. Great intentions, but they fvcked it up.

When I graduated from college the general consensus was that you could work in the public sector for lower pay but better benefits and that you wouldn't have to work as hard or you could work in the private sector for higher pay and greater opportunities. That has changed, now public sector workers get better pay, better benefits and they still don't have to work as hard. That's what happens when public sector unions can use their funds and manpower to help elect officials who are going to butter their muffins.

So your saying unions help keep wages commensurate to productivity and inflation?

[UNI88]

How much more productive are government workers now? My guess is that their productivity hasn't increased anywhere near 3x as much.

I don't disagree that they average professional should be paid more. I just don't have a lot of faith in the government's ability to make that happen without making other things much worse so that more drastic fixes are needed. Kind of like when they got involved in the student loan business. Great intentions, but they fvcked it up.

When I graduated from college the general consensus was that you could work in the public sector for lower pay but better benefits and that you wouldn't have to work as hard or you could work in the private sector for higher pay and greater opportunities. That has changed, now public sector workers get better pay, better benefits and they still don't have to work as hard. That's what happens when public sector unions can use their funds and manpower to help elect officials who are going to butter their muffins.

So your saying unions have inflated public sector wages beyond what is justified by productivity and inflation?

Yes.

[kalm]

So your saying unions have inflated public sector wages beyond what is justified by productivity and inflation?

Yes.

Thanks, 89.



So wages should be less? Greedy sumbitches....