Deportations of Illegal Aliens Thread

[kalm]

I remember the opening prayer at J6 too. So much insurrection going on…

[kalm]

It’s a war zone! An insurrection! LA is under siege by a foreign adversary!

[kalm]

The enemy has opened up a new front in Dallas! Reinforcements are needed!

[kalm]

The ugly side of an insurrection and hostile occupying force.

Mature audiences only:

[Caribbean Hen]

Lunatic lib grandpa calling for violence. Bring it on. Our side has more guns + the majority of LEOs and military.

Sounds eerily similar to "We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore" which you and other MAQA yahoos have been telling us for 4+ years was no big deal and incited nothing.

Make up your mind. Is it a big deal or not?

And if the military fires on American citizens, this country might be fvcked and it will have happened on trump's watch. That might be as close to the polar opposite of "making America great again" as you can get.

'

U.S, Citizens

They are fighting the Cartels and the crime organizations that have infected the country, LA is obviously a hotbed

if you are a violent illegal or an illegal with a signed deportation order, sleep lightly

[kalm]

Sounds eerily similar to "We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore" which you and other MAQA yahoos have been telling us for 4+ years was no big deal and incited nothing.

Make up your mind. Is it a big deal or not?

And if the military fires on American citizens, this country might be fvcked and it will have happened on trump's watch. That might be as close to the polar opposite of "making America great again" as you can get.

'

U.S, Citizens

They are fighting the Cartels and the crime organizations that have infected the country, LA is obviously a hotbed

if you are a violent illegal or an illegal with a signed deportation order, sleep lightly

Do you think all of the protestors or abducted are “violent illegals or members of cartels?

[kalm]

I wouldn’t say that no one is covering it, but the extent of the coverage and normalization of what Trump is trying to do is under-reported.

We are a distracted people.

[kalm]

[GannonFan]

I wouldn’t say that no one is covering it, but the extent of the coverage and normalization of what Trump is trying to do is under-reported.

We are a distracted people.

I'm pretty sure this isn't the first time in American history that there are simultaneous protests against a sitting President. I mean, Trump was President just 4 short years ago, so it's not that hard to remember. And pretty much for every Republican President going back to at least Nixon.

As for this weekend's drama, Trump is getting exactly what he wanted - he's got videos galore of protestors setting things on fire, scuffling with police, looting, etc, he's got his political opponents on record saying it's mostly peaceful protests alongside these images of things that aren't peaceful, and he has the drama seemingly subside once he put the National Guard and even Marines in. If the goal is to limit Trump and the things he can do, that goal was largely missed this past weekend. On the plus side, it does further erode the idea that Newsom could be a presidential candidate for the Dems in 2028 so hopefully someone else in the ranks who could actually win steps up.

[kalm]

I wouldn’t say that no one is covering it, but the extent of the coverage and normalization of what Trump is trying to do is under-reported.

We are a distracted people.

I'm pretty sure this isn't the first time in American history that there are simultaneous protests against a sitting President. I mean, Trump was President just 4 short years ago, so it's not that hard to remember. And pretty much for every Republican President going back to at least Nixon.

As for this weekend's drama, Trump is getting exactly what he wanted - he's got videos galore of protestors setting things on fire, scuffling with police, looting, etc, he's got his political opponents on record saying it's mostly peaceful protests alongside these images of things that aren't peaceful, and he has the drama seemingly subside once he put the National Guard and even Marines in. If the goal is to limit Trump and the things he can do, that goal was largely missed this past weekend. On the plus side, it does further erode the idea that Newsom could be a presidential candidate for the Dems in 2028 so hopefully someone else in the ranks who could actually win steps up.

I agree regarding the perception but I think this goes beyond theater and political outcomes. This is a rogue administration pushing the envelope of constitutionality and authoritarian control.

I personalty can’t stand Newsome but I don’t think this hurts him politically. And that’s not the feature here.

[GannonFan]

I'm pretty sure this isn't the first time in American history that there are simultaneous protests against a sitting President. I mean, Trump was President just 4 short years ago, so it's not that hard to remember. And pretty much for every Republican President going back to at least Nixon.

As for this weekend's drama, Trump is getting exactly what he wanted - he's got videos galore of protestors setting things on fire, scuffling with police, looting, etc, he's got his political opponents on record saying it's mostly peaceful protests alongside these images of things that aren't peaceful, and he has the drama seemingly subside once he put the National Guard and even Marines in. If the goal is to limit Trump and the things he can do, that goal was largely missed this past weekend. On the plus side, it does further erode the idea that Newsom could be a presidential candidate for the Dems in 2028 so hopefully someone else in the ranks who could actually win steps up.

I agree regarding the perception but I think this goes beyond theater and political outcomes. This is a rogue administration pushing the envelope of constitutionality and authoritarian control.

I personalty can’t stand Newsome but I don’t think this hurts him politically. And that’s not the feature here.

I agree to disagree. Trump is almost always mostly theater, or at least bluster - he doesn't really have the mental capacity to know how to push the envelope of constitutionality or authoritarianism (assuming he even knows what those things mean) - besides, I think he's too lazy to really be that kind of strong man leader. And what has he really pushed? He authorized 2000 National Guard into a city of almost 4 million people (1 national guardsman per 2000 people ratio) with burning cars and looting. As has been clearly noted, including by you as well with earlier posts, even in Los Angeles there were many other protests going on that didn't have any of this level of violence and were not in any way shape or form impacted or affected by the National Guard presence in the city. On the bright side, we've now started the legal procedures on how to curtail/limit the application of federal law enforcement in future political protests, so the next time something does come up, hopefully we'll have had the limits tested on executive power and in place then.

And of course Newsom is part of the feature here - he's the governor of a state that just had a portion of its National Guard activated, without his approval, activated to address rioting and looting in the biggest city in his state. And he's now leading a lawsuit against the national government. And he's a leading Presidential candidate for his party in the next election. It's hard to contort it to have him not be part of the story.

[kalm]

I agree regarding the perception but I think this goes beyond theater and political outcomes. This is a rogue administration pushing the envelope of constitutionality and authoritarian control.

I personalty can’t stand Newsome but I don’t think this hurts him politically. And that’s not the feature here.

I agree to disagree. Trump is almost always mostly theater, or at least bluster - he doesn't really have the mental capacity to know how to push the envelope of constitutionality or authoritarianism (assuming he even knows what those things mean) - besides, I think he's too lazy to really be that kind of strong man leader. And what has he really pushed? He authorized 2000 National Guard into a city of almost 4 million people (1 national guardsman per 2000 people ratio) with burning cars and looting. As has been clearly noted, including by you as well with earlier posts, even in Los Angeles there were many other protests going on that didn't have any of this level of violence and were not in any way shape or form impacted or affected by the National Guard presence in the city. On the bright side, we've now started the legal procedures on how to curtail/limit the application of federal law enforcement in future political protests, so the next time something does come up, hopefully we'll have had the limits tested on executive power and in place then.

And of course Newsom is part of the feature here - he's the governor of a state that just had a portion of its National Guard activated, without his approval, activated to address rioting and looting in the biggest city in his state. And he's now leading a lawsuit against the national government. And he's a leading Presidential candidate for his party in the next election. It's hard to contort it to have him not be part of the story.

Agree that Trump is incapable of strategizing but people like Stephen Miller and Russ Vought are. Trump is a vehicle for them. He can be manipulated and he wields a tremendous amount of power.

Yeah…we’re just not gonna agree on the normalization of what’s happening. Our right, laws, and cultural identity are stake.

[Caribbean Hen]

'

U.S, Citizens

They are fighting the Cartels and the crime organizations that have infected the country, LA is obviously a hotbed

if you are a violent illegal or an illegal with a signed deportation order, sleep lightly

Do you think all of the protestors or abducted are “violent illegals or members of cartels?

No

But you will stereotype away regardless

[kalm]

Tom Morello. Correct as always. He’s a good dude.

[Caribbean Hen]

Tom Morello. Correct as always. He’s a good dude.

He’s an idiot race baiter

J6 was a protest staged by people that are proud of the USA

Are any of the protesters today proud of the USA ?

[UNI88]

I agree to disagree. Trump is almost always mostly theater, or at least bluster - he doesn't really have the mental capacity to know how to push the envelope of constitutionality or authoritarianism (assuming he even knows what those things mean) - besides, I think he's too lazy to really be that kind of strong man leader. And what has he really pushed? He authorized 2000 National Guard into a city of almost 4 million people (1 national guardsman per 2000 people ratio) with burning cars and looting. As has been clearly noted, including by you as well with earlier posts, even in Los Angeles there were many other protests going on that didn't have any of this level of violence and were not in any way shape or form impacted or affected by the National Guard presence in the city. On the bright side, we've now started the legal procedures on how to curtail/limit the application of federal law enforcement in future political protests, so the next time something does come up, hopefully we'll have had the limits tested on executive power and in place then.

And of course Newsom is part of the feature here - he's the governor of a state that just had a portion of its National Guard activated, without his approval, activated to address rioting and looting in the biggest city in his state. And he's now leading a lawsuit against the national government. And he's a leading Presidential candidate for his party in the next election. It's hard to contort it to have him not be part of the story.

Agree that Trump is incapable of strategizing but people like Stephen Miller and Russ Vought are. Trump is a vehicle for them. He can be manipulated and he wields a tremendous amount of power.

Yeah…we’re just not gonna agree on the normalization of what’s happening. Our right, laws, and cultural identity are stake.

Ganny is right about these protests helping trump and MAQA yahoos:
- it alienates moderates/independents
- trump gets to normalize the use of the military on American soil against Americans
- it won't play well in the 2026 elections and could help Republicans maintain control of Congress

I disagree with Ganny on trump's intelligence and laziness. He's a spoiled toddler who while not a (stable) genius, is intelligent and driven enough to do what it takes to get what he wants which is money, power and the adulation of his qult. Maybe it's a case of a blind squirrel finding a nut but he's doing a pretty good job of pushing "the envelope of constitutionality or authoritarianism".

[UNI88]

Copied from a Facebook post

Zen priest, Peter Coyote, on protest: "I’m watching the Los Angeles reaction to ICE raids with trepidation and regret.

Three years ago I taught a class at Harvard on the “theater of protest”— designed to help people understand why so many protests turn out to be Republican campaign videos working directly against the interests of the original protest.

A protest is an invitation to a better world.

It’s a ceremony.

No one accepts a ceremonial invitation when they’re being screamed at.

More important you have to know who the real audience of the protest is.

The audience is NEVER the police, the politicians, the Board of supervisors, Congress,etc.

The audience is always the American people, who are trying to decide who they can trust; who will not embarrass them.

If you win them, you win power at the box office and power to make positive change.

Everything else is a waste.

There are a few ways to get there:

1. Let women organize the event. They’re more collaborative. They’re more inclusive, and they don’t generally bring the undertones of violence men do.
2. Appoint monitors, give them yellow, vests and whistles. At the first sign of violence, they blow the whistles and the real protester sit down. Let the police take out their aggression on the anarchists and the provocateurs trying to discredit the movement.
3. Dress like you’re going to church. It’s hard to be painted as a hoodlum when you’re dressed in clean, presentable clothes. They don’t have to be fancy they just signal the respect for the occasion that you want to transmit to the audience.
4. Make your protest silent. Demonstrate your discipline to the American people. Let signs do the talking.
5. Go home at night. In the dark, you can’t tell the cops from the killers. Come back at dawn fresh and rested.

I have great fear that Trump’s staging with the National Guard and maybe the Marines is designed to clash with anarchists who are playing into his hands and offering him the opportunity to declare an insurrection.

It’s such a waste and it’s only because we haven’t thought things through strategically.

Nothing I thought of is particularly original.

It was all learned by watching the early civil rights protests in the 50s and 60s.

And it was the discipline and courage of African-Americans that drew such a clear line in the American sand that people were forced to take sides and that produced the civil rights act.

The American people are watching and once again if we behave in ways that can be misinterpreted, we’ll see this explained to the public in Republican campaign videos benefiting the very people who started this.

Wake up. Vent at home. In public practice discipline and self control.

It takes much more courage." — Peter Coyote Zen teacher and author/narrator, with Ken Burns

Note: Carry an American flag. As the administration creates a fake emergency to justify a state crackdown, it's important to honor the values and vision of democracy for which we're advocating.

When the Enquirer came for pics back in 2017, I smiled a big toothy grin and held a big flag as it felt so empowering and good to stand with my adult daughter, pastors, Franciscans, nuns, kids, parents, grandparents and some women from our women's groups for the values we tried to pass on.

After the protest, we sang and marched to a church where we heard poignant witness of immigrants trying to build a better life for their families against insurmountable odds.

[kalm]

Copied from a Facebook post

Zen priest, Peter Coyote, on protest: "I’m watching the Los Angeles reaction to ICE raids with trepidation and regret.

Three years ago I taught a class at Harvard on the “theater of protest”— designed to help people understand why so many protests turn out to be Republican campaign videos working directly against the interests of the original protest.

A protest is an invitation to a better world.

It’s a ceremony.

No one accepts a ceremonial invitation when they’re being screamed at.

More important you have to know who the real audience of the protest is.

The audience is NEVER the police, the politicians, the Board of supervisors, Congress,etc.

The audience is always the American people, who are trying to decide who they can trust; who will not embarrass them.

If you win them, you win power at the box office and power to make positive change.

Everything else is a waste.

There are a few ways to get there:

1. Let women organize the event. They’re more collaborative. They’re more inclusive, and they don’t generally bring the undertones of violence men do.
2. Appoint monitors, give them yellow, vests and whistles. At the first sign of violence, they blow the whistles and the real protester sit down. Let the police take out their aggression on the anarchists and the provocateurs trying to discredit the movement.
3. Dress like you’re going to church. It’s hard to be painted as a hoodlum when you’re dressed in clean, presentable clothes. They don’t have to be fancy they just signal the respect for the occasion that you want to transmit to the audience.
4. Make your protest silent. Demonstrate your discipline to the American people. Let signs do the talking.
5. Go home at night. In the dark, you can’t tell the cops from the killers. Come back at dawn fresh and rested.

I have great fear that Trump’s staging with the National Guard and maybe the Marines is designed to clash with anarchists who are playing into his hands and offering him the opportunity to declare an insurrection.

It’s such a waste and it’s only because we haven’t thought things through strategically.

Nothing I thought of is particularly original.

It was all learned by watching the early civil rights protests in the 50s and 60s.

And it was the discipline and courage of African-Americans that drew such a clear line in the American sand that people were forced to take sides and that produced the civil rights act.

The American people are watching and once again if we behave in ways that can be misinterpreted, we’ll see this explained to the public in Republican campaign videos benefiting the very people who started this.

Wake up. Vent at home. In public practice discipline and self control.

It takes much more courage." — Peter Coyote Zen teacher and author/narrator, with Ken Burns

Note: Carry an American flag. As the administration creates a fake emergency to justify a state crackdown, it's important to honor the values and vision of democracy for which we're advocating.

When the Enquirer came for pics back in 2017, I smiled a big toothy grin and held a big flag as it felt so empowering and good to stand with my adult daughter, pastors, Franciscans, nuns, kids, parents, grandparents and some women from our women's groups for the values we tried to pass on.

After the protest, we sang and marched to a church where we heard poignant witness of immigrants trying to build a better life for their families against insurmountable odds.

Great piece! It’s tough to disagree with and sadly much of it is political framing. Most protests are peaceful but if you watch Fox or listen to EndWokeness, it’s complete anarchy.

My question remains how should we expect people to act? Let Unmarked and identified ICE vehicles and agents roll up to schools or nab people on the streets? Wait for the courts? Or the next election to put an authoritarian genie back in the bottle?

[GannonFan]

Copied from a Facebook post

Zen priest, Peter Coyote, on protest: "I’m watching the Los Angeles reaction to ICE raids with trepidation and regret.

Great piece! It’s tough to disagree with and sadly much of it is political framing. Most protests are peaceful but if you watch Fox or listen to EndWokeness, it’s complete anarchy.

My question remains how should we expect people to act? Let Unmarked and identified ICE vehicles and agents roll up to schools or nab people on the streets? Wait for the courts? Or the next election to put an authoritarian genie back in the bottle?

I agree, great piece on how to win protests.

As for the peacefulness, it wasn't just Fox and the like showing violent scenes, every news source was showing violent scenes, even the ones saying it was most peaceful. CNN, ABC, BBC, etc all showed what Fox was showing so it wasn't just some rightwing conspiracy.

As for where to draw the line on how to act - when is it acceptable to attack a police officer, physically, when they are performing their duties? If they arrest someone and you don't agree with it, can you attack the police officer to prevent the arrest? Knock over their car? Set it on fire? In a nation of 300+ million, if we have that as the standard, i.e. just personally disagreeing with the officer of the law, as to when we can attack them, how could we ever have a civil society? Yes, we need to use the courts. Yes, we need to use elections. Yes, we can protest, hopefully without the violence, fires, and looting. Those are the weapons we can use.

[UNI88]

Great piece! It’s tough to disagree with and sadly much of it is political framing. Most protests are peaceful but if you watch Fox or listen to EndWokeness, it’s complete anarchy.

My question remains how should we expect people to act? Let Unmarked and identified ICE vehicles and agents roll up to schools or nab people on the streets? Wait for the courts? Or the next election to put an authoritarian genie back in the bottle?

I agree, great piece on how to win protests.

As for the peacefulness, it wasn't just Fox and the like showing violent scenes, every news source was showing violent scenes, even the ones saying it was most peaceful. CNN, ABC, BBC, etc all showed what Fox was showing so it wasn't just some rightwing conspiracy.

As for where to draw the line on how to act - when is it acceptable to attack a police officer, physically, when they are performing their duties? If they arrest someone and you don't agree with it, can you attack the police officer to prevent the arrest? Knock over their car? Set it on fire? In a nation of 300+ million, if we have that as the standard, i.e. just personally disagreeing with the officer of the law, as to when we can attack them, how could we ever have a civil society? Yes, we need to use the courts. Yes, we need to use elections. Yes, we can protest, hopefully without the violence, fires, and looting. Those are the weapons we can use.

kalm's posting photos/videos of LA protesters singing peacefully is the equivalent of BDK/CH/SG (or tucker) posting photos/videos of Capitol Police letting January 6 rioters into the Capitol building. Yes it happened but it does not erase the violence that also happened.

kalm also seems to believe that these protests are justified where the January 6 "protests" weren't. MAQA yahoos believe the opposite. Both are being self righteous and failing to see/acknowledge/respect the other perspective.

[kalm]

.

[kalm]

Great piece! It’s tough to disagree with and sadly much of it is political framing. Most protests are peaceful but if you watch Fox or listen to EndWokeness, it’s complete anarchy.

My question remains how should we expect people to act? Let Unmarked and identified ICE vehicles and agents roll up to schools or nab people on the streets? Wait for the courts? Or the next election to put an authoritarian genie back in the bottle?

I agree, great piece on how to win protests.

As for the peacefulness, it wasn't just Fox and the like showing violent scenes, every news source was showing violent scenes, even the ones saying it was most peaceful. CNN, ABC, BBC, etc all showed what Fox was showing so it wasn't just some rightwing conspiracy.

As for where to draw the line on how to act - when is it acceptable to attack a police officer, physically, when they are performing their duties? If they arrest someone and you don't agree with it, can you attack the police officer to prevent the arrest? Knock over their car? Set it on fire? In a nation of 300+ million, if we have that as the standard, i.e. just personally disagreeing with the officer of the law, as to when we can attack them, how could we ever have a civil society? Yes, we need to use the courts. Yes, we need to use elections. Yes, we can protest, hopefully without the violence, fires, and looting. Those are the weapons we can use.

Lighting cars on fire and throwing rocks is wrong. These are tactics used around the world against oppression, perceived or real. You are correct in that it can play into the hands of Trump. In fact there are reports of agitators to stir the pot further.

The alternative of course is peaceful civil disobedience.

With Fox et al it’s not just images it’s the entire right wing news ecosystem. A rational person recognizes both the threat and urgency of autocratic force as well as the unneeded violence and vandalism perpetrated by a minority of the protestors. See what BDK has posted on this thread and how OUR government - the Trump administration has portrayed what’s happening and you don’t see a rational balanced view of reality.

[Bobcat]

'

U.S, Citizens

They are fighting the Cartels and the crime organizations that have infected the country, LA is obviously a hotbed

if you are a violent illegal or an illegal with a signed deportation order, sleep lightly

Do you think all of the protestors or abducted are “violent illegals or members of cartels?

Anyone supporting illegals in this country is a member of the cartels

[Baldy]

I'm pretty sure this isn't the first time in American history that there are simultaneous protests against a sitting President. I mean, Trump was President just 4 short years ago, so it's not that hard to remember. And pretty much for every Republican President going back to at least Nixon.

As for this weekend's drama, Trump is getting exactly what he wanted - he's got videos galore of protestors setting things on fire, scuffling with police, looting, etc, he's got his political opponents on record saying it's mostly peaceful protests alongside these images of things that aren't peaceful, and he has the drama seemingly subside once he put the National Guard and even Marines in. If the goal is to limit Trump and the things he can do, that goal was largely missed this past weekend. On the plus side, it does further erode the idea that Newsom could be a presidential candidate for the Dems in 2028 so hopefully someone else in the ranks who could actually win steps up.

I agree regarding the perception but I think this goes beyond theater and political outcomes. This is a rogue administration pushing the envelope of constitutionality and authoritarian control.

I personalty can’t stand Newsome but I don’t think this hurts him politically. And that’s not the feature here.

You can't stand Newsome?

You sound just like him.

[Baldy]

Tom Morello. Correct as always. He’s a good dude.

He's as dumb as they come.

He supports 3+ days of burning and looting in LA, but had an issue with the mostly peaceful three-hour long J6 protest?