An excellent, probing question, 88!UNI88 wrote:Did they get it wrong? I didn't vote for him but I still think Trump was a better choice than Hillary. Who is responsible for putting forward a worse candidate than Trump?∞∞∞ wrote: I fear Trump opened up the Pandora's Box of hate and stupidity and we'll suffer the social, political, and judicial consequences for decades, even as the nation continuously gets more progressive. Unless structural changes occur, the tyranny of the minority and crazy old uncles like AZ will be felt for a while.
I mean look at css75...Mulvaney publicly announces, "we're corrupt, get over it," and he doesn't give one sh*t. How do you even reach someone like that at this point?
What's really more damaging? Trump's bungling, public corruption or Hillary's more competent, covert corruption?
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The Trump Whistleblower Extravaganza Thread
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Re: RE: Re: The Trump Whistleblower Extravaganza Thread
“I’m tired and done.” — 89Hen 3/27/22.
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Re: The Trump Whistleblower Extravaganza Thread
I would imagine that a "Deep State" goes all the way back to the Founding Fathers, no?SDHornet wrote:So at least you acknowledge there is a "Deep State" at work here. Speaking of which, interested read by kalm's boy, Matt Taibbi last week.houndawg wrote:
I don't think a floor vote matters - just sit back and let the CIA do their thing.
Which agency was among the very first that Trump picked a fight with?
Which agency changes nation's governments for a living?
https://taibbi.substack.com/p/were-in-a-permanent-coup
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Re: The Trump Whistleblower Extravaganza Thread
It's fucking hilarious! These guys make Dubya look like Teslacss75 wrote:∞∞∞ wrote:So Mulvaney straight up admits the administration withheld money in order to investigate Democrats.
This President and his staff are the stupidest in American history.
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Re: The Trump Whistleblower Extravaganza Thread
I didn't vote for her because there was already a Republican in the race.GannonFan wrote:In good conscience. I couldn't vote for Hillary because of her rank corruption. I won't vote for Trump because of his personal abhorrence and his rank corruption. I don't know who his opponent is yet. If I don't like them I'm throwing my vote away again. I'm not going to vote for a bad candidate just because I only have a choice between two bad candidates. Not every Democrat I see so far would fall under the umbrella of The Resistance lunacy. I'll wait to see who makes it out of the nomination process.AZGrizFan wrote:
Question: If the Resistance is "far more dangerous than anything Trump can do" why would you not vote for him, given that his opponent will most decidedly be from said Resistance?
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Re: RE: Re: The Trump Whistleblower Extravaganza Thread
It’s not about the other team, Jeff. It’s about how you play. That’s the one thing you can control. The Dems are 3-8 going back to Obama’s first term. You can thank Pelosi, Schumer, Hillary and the establishment for that.mainejeff2 wrote:It's all the Democrats fault!UNI88 wrote:
Did they get it wrong? I didn't vote for him but I still think Trump was a better choice than Hillary. Who is responsible for putting forward a worse candidate than Trump?
What's really more damaging? Trump's bungling, public corruption or Hillary's more competent, covert corruption?
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No one voted for Trump!![]()
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Get over it!![]()
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Signed,
An actual liberal.
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Re: The Trump Whistleblower Extravaganza Thread
Orange Man fighting (and losing) lawsuit for bedbugs at Dorado.kalm wrote:The administration literally told Zelensky he could only meet face to face with Trump IF he PUBLICLY announced a investigation into Biden. Didn’t he also ask the Chinese to look into Warren and Biden.SeattleGriz wrote:
Zelensky says he felt no quid pro or the fact the transcript speaks differently than your version. Orange man bad though. Lol
Orange Man superhero extraordinaire! Fighting corruption from Kiev to Shanghai!!!
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: The Trump Whistleblower Extravaganza Thread
Can you follow your own advice?mainejeff2 wrote:Get over it!UNI88 wrote:
Did they get it wrong? I didn't vote for him but I still think Trump was a better choice than Hillary. Who is responsible for putting forward a worse candidate than Trump?
What's really more damaging? Trump's bungling, public corruption or Hillary's more competent, covert corruption?
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Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
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Re: RE: Re: The Trump Whistleblower Extravaganza Thread
That’s like blaming the refs.mainejeff2 wrote:You forgot to thank Fox News as well.kalm wrote:
It’s not about the other team, Jeff. It’s about how you play. That’s the one thing you can control. The Dems are 3-8 going back to Obama’s first term. You can thank Pelosi, Schumer, Hillary and the establishment for that.
Signed,
An actual liberal.![]()
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Re: RE: Re: The Trump Whistleblower Extravaganza Thread
Fox and Trump have their cultists who believe everything they say just like the establishment cultists who believe that the Kurds were being wiped out in Kentucky.mainejeff2 wrote:No, it isn't.kalm wrote:
That’s like blaming the refs.
The refs make a mistake.....and it is replayed again and again in real time.
Fox News tells a lie....and there is no one to challenge them. The minions just accept it as truth.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
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Re: RE: Re: The Trump Whistleblower Extravaganza Thread
mainejeff2 wrote:No, it isn't.kalm wrote:
That’s like blaming the refs.
The refs make a mistake.....and it is replayed again and again in real time.
Fox News tells a lie....and there is no one to challenge them. The minions just accept it as truth.
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Re: The Trump Whistleblower Extravaganza Thread
No they won’t. Trump has 5 more years.kalm wrote:Corruption, law enforcement, the constitution, deficits, and free trade will all become important again in about a year.dbackjon wrote:It is really sad and pathetic to see all the GOP on the board (and across the nation) defend this corruption.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
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Re: The Trump Whistleblower Extravaganza Thread
GannonFan wrote:Yikes, I just read that article and I'm in fear of the banana republic coming into play tomorrow or the day after.Ivytalk wrote: “Lunatic spookworld brand of politics” sure seems to be out there.
I think he nails it on the head with this premise early on. Trump is absolutely abhorrent, and I wouldn't vote for him for any elected position. no matter how inconsequential, and certainly not something as consequential as the Presidency. But there's a lot of truth to the idea that the Resistance is far more dangerous than anything Trump can do. We investigated a political campaign of a rival party during an election, we then passed a slew of dubious information about that candidate throughout government on the way out to ensure that it would be there and shared publicly once he takes office, as Taibbi points out the intelligence agencies made sure the President knew this was out there, and we've spent every waking moment of the current Presidency attempting to remove that President from office. I don't see how any of that is good, especially if it sets the precedent of this happening over and over again in future presidencies. The TDS thing and the Resistance are funny to a point, but when they spill over into irrational and maniacal obsession with removing a President at all costs, that's where I think it is more worrisome than a morally and intellectually devoid person being President. We vote on him next November - that's when the voters can impeach and remove him from office, if they so choose. And we don't need to make up stuff or inflate stuff to do it.My discomfort in the last few years, first with Russiagate and now with Ukrainegate and impeachment, stems from the belief that the people pushing hardest for Trump’s early removal are more dangerous than Trump.
Maybe a bit of truth but I don't think as much as you think - Trump has the nuclear codes and Putin has Trump.
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Re: The Trump Whistleblower Extravaganza Thread
I thought Putin had Gabbard.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
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Re: The Trump Whistleblower Extravaganza Thread
Her too, and Stein.AZGrizFan wrote:I thought Putin had Gabbard.
Listen to the three of them - its a real disconnect how the three of them won't say boo to Putin. And I say that from left of center. Draw a Venn diagram of the three of them and there where they all overlap sits Uncle Vladimir. Sometimes you just have to admit you were beaten by a better player and tip your hat.
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Re: The Trump Whistleblower Extravaganza Thread
houndawg wrote:Her too, and Stein.AZGrizFan wrote:I thought Putin had Gabbard.![]()
Listen to the three of them - its a real disconnect how the three of them won't say boo to Putin. And I say that from left of center. Draw a Venn diagram of the three of them and there where they all overlap sits Uncle Vladimir. Sometimes you just have to admit you were beaten by a better player and tip your hat.
Yep. Gabbard. Trump. Stein. Three peas in a pod, for sure...
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Re: The Trump Whistleblower Extravaganza Thread
Ok Nicholas Cage.houndawg wrote:I would imagine that a "Deep State" goes all the way back to the Founding Fathers, no?SDHornet wrote: So at least you acknowledge there is a "Deep State" at work here. Speaking of which, interested read by kalm's boy, Matt Taibbi last week.
https://taibbi.substack.com/p/were-in-a-permanent-coup
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Re: The Trump Whistleblower Extravaganza Thread
Ambassador Taylor's opening statement today is pretty damning. I can pull out highlights later for whomever is too lazy to read.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/context/ ... 45468a3ff/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/context/ ... 45468a3ff/
"The unmasking thing was all created by Devin Nunes"
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Re: The Trump Whistleblower Extravaganza Thread
Nah, you may as well wait for HuffPo to do it for you.Skjellyfetti wrote:Ambassador Taylor's opening statement today is pretty damning. I can pull out highlights later for whomever is too lazy to read.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/context/ ... 45468a3ff/

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Re: The Trump Whistleblower Extravaganza Thread
You read it? Or nah?
"The unmasking thing was all created by Devin Nunes"
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Re: The Trump Whistleblower Extravaganza Thread
15 pages is past my bedtime.Skjellyfetti wrote:You read it? Or nah?

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Re: The Trump Whistleblower Extravaganza Thread
An even better link for Seagriz.Skjellyfetti wrote:Ambassador Taylor's opening statement today is pretty damning. I can pull out highlights later for whomever is too lazy to read.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/context/ ... 45468a3ff/
Damning is right. It appears the Ukraine didn’t even offer. This was Trump’s idea. Yikes!
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Re: The Trump Whistleblower Extravaganza Thread
Me too. Luckily It was within the first few paragraphs of of the WaPo article.89Hen wrote:15 pages is past my bedtime.Skjellyfetti wrote:You read it? Or nah?
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Re: The Trump Whistleblower Extravaganza Thread
Who is this guy. Not even making WAY out there sites?kalm wrote:An even better link for Seagriz.Skjellyfetti wrote:Ambassador Taylor's opening statement today is pretty damning. I can pull out highlights later for whomever is too lazy to read.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/context/ ... 45468a3ff/
![]()
Damning is right. It appears the Ukraine didn’t even offer. This was Trump’s idea. Yikes!
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Re: The Trump Whistleblower Extravaganza Thread
89Hen wrote:15 pages is past my bedtime.Skjellyfetti wrote:You read it? Or nah?
Mine too.
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Re: The Trump Whistleblower Extravaganza Thread
CliffNotes... down to ~500 words.
Let me know if there are any big words you need help with. I can try to translate it into 6th grade reading level if you'd like
Let me know if there are any big words you need help with. I can try to translate it into 6th grade reading level if you'd like
I became increasingly concerned that our relationship with Ukraine was being fundamentally undermined by an irregular, informal channel of U.S. policy-making and by the withholding of vital security assistance for domestic political reasons.
...it was becoming clear to me that the meeting President Zelenskyy wanted was conditioned on the investigations of Burisma and alleged Ukrainian interference in the 2016 U.S. elections. It was also clear that this condition was driven by the irregular policy channel I had come to understand was guided by Mr. Giuliani.
...not to approve any additional spending of security assistance for Ukraine until further notice...the directive had come from the President to the Chief of Staff to OMB.
...NSC-led interagency meetings...At every meeting, the unanimous conclusion was that the security assistance should be resumed...the Secretaries of Defense and State, the CIA Director, and the National Security Advisor sought a joint meeting with the President to convince him to release the hold...
Ambassador Sondland had connected "investigations" with an Oval Office meeting for President Zelenskyy, which so irritated Ambassador Bolton that he abruptly ended the meeting, telling...they should have nothing to do with domestic politics."
...President Zelenskyy did not want to be used as a pawn in a U.S. re-election campaign.
...President Trump and President Zelenskyy had the long-awaited phone conversation. Strangely, even though I was Chief of Mission...I received no readout of the call from the White House.
Ambassador Sondland told Mr. Yermak that the security assistance money would not come until President Zelenskyy committed to pursue the Burisma investigation.
Ambassador Sondland told me that President Trump had told him that he wants President Zelenskyy to state publicly that Ukraine will investigate Burisma and alleged Ukrainian interference in the 2016 U.S. election....in fact, Ambassador Sondland said, "everything" was dependent on such an announcement, including security assistance.
...President Trump told Ambassador Sondland that he was not asking for a "quid pro quo." But President Trump did insist that President Zelenskyy go to a microphone and say he is opening investigations of Biden and 2016 election interference, and that President Zelenskyy should want to do this himself...President Trump was adamant that President Zelenskyy, himself, had to "clear things up and do it in public." President Trump said it was not a "quid pro quo." Ambassador Sondland said that he had talked to President Zelenskyy and Mr. Yermak and told them that, although this was not a quid pro quo, if President Zelenskyy did not "clear things up" in public, we would be at a "stalemate." I understood a "stalemate" to mean that Ukraine would not receive the much-needed military assistance.
...I also said, "I think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign." Ambassador Sondland responded about five hours later that I was "incorrect about President Trump's intentions. The President had been crystal clear no quid pro quo's of any kind." Before these text messages, during our call...Sondland tried to explain to me that President Trump is a businessman. When a businessman is about to sign a check to someone who owes him something, he said, the businessman asks that person to pay up before signing the check. Ambassador Volker used the same terms several days later...
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