Colin Kaepernick

[houndawg]

Underlying all of this is the "patriotism dogma" ethic that leads to things like saying it should be against the law to burn the flag. To me, it's completely inconsistent with the point of this country. When we start saying people are supposed to worship the flag, etc., there is a problem. The NFL has a right to make rules its employees must follow. But this thing of acting like it's just an absolute HORROR if someone kneels during the national anthem is a social pathology.

Fine!

But that "horror" is what drives us to fire all kinds of people who bring negative attention towards us

Wal Mart will fire you if you offend customers
Amazon will too

Hell, Google will fire you for simply disagreeing with their policies - nevermind disobeying them

When I was a cop, there were all kinds of things I could be fired for, including going to titty bars

There are all kinds of things I can be fired for now, as well - and all of them are related to that gold standard of employee policies - bringing negative attention or potential lost revenues on your employer

That is a standard that has stood the test of time in court when employers want to fire people.. and that's with full time employees. Contractors (which is what NFL football players are) have even less employee rights.. they literally serve at the pleasure of their organization

I don't know who is louder or more ridiculous - the people mad at the kneeling

or the people moaning about some middling QB with a bad attitude not being able to find a job

Have a buddy who was a first round pick in '78. He has some very interesting stories and anecdotes. He played with OJ at the end of OJs career. Said most of the black players had a strong dislike for him because he didn't do anything, zero, for his high school or his old 'hood which were right down the street from where he was playing on Sunday.

[kalm]

Underlying all of this is the "patriotism dogma" ethic that leads to things like saying it should be against the law to burn the flag. To me, it's completely inconsistent with the point of this country. When we start saying people are supposed to worship the flag, etc., there is a problem. The NFL has a right to make rules its employees must follow. But this thing of acting like it's just an absolute HORROR if someone kneels during the national anthem is a social pathology.

Fine!

But that "horror" is what drives us to fire all kinds of people who bring negative attention towards us

Wal Mart will fire you if you offend customers
Amazon will too

Hell, Google will fire you for simply disagreeing with their policies - nevermind disobeying them

When I was a cop, there were all kinds of things I could be fired for, including going to titty bars

There are all kinds of things I can be fired for now, as well - and all of them are related to that gold standard of employee policies - bringing negative attention or potential lost revenues on your employer

That is a standard that has stood the test of time in court when employers want to fire people.. and that's with full time employees. Contractors (which is what NFL football players are) have even less employee rights.. they literally serve at the pleasure of their organization

I don't know who is louder or more ridiculous - the people mad at the kneeling

or the people moaning about some middling QB with a bad attitude not being able to find a job

All an employer really should owe you is a paycheck.

[houndawg]

Fine!

But that "horror" is what drives us to fire all kinds of people who bring negative attention towards us

Wal Mart will fire you if you offend customers
Amazon will too

Hell, Google will fire you for simply disagreeing with their policies - nevermind disobeying them

When I was a cop, there were all kinds of things I could be fired for, including going to titty bars

There are all kinds of things I can be fired for now, as well - and all of them are related to that gold standard of employee policies - bringing negative attention or potential lost revenues on your employer

That is a standard that has stood the test of time in court when employers want to fire people.. and that's with full time employees. Contractors (which is what NFL football players are) have even less employee rights.. they literally serve at the pleasure of their organization

I don't know who is louder or more ridiculous - the people mad at the kneeling

or the people moaning about some middling QB with a bad attitude not being able to find a job

All an employer really should owe you is a paycheck.

[Gil Dobie]

Fine!

But that "horror" is what drives us to fire all kinds of people who bring negative attention towards us

Wal Mart will fire you if you offend customers
Amazon will too

Hell, Google will fire you for simply disagreeing with their policies - nevermind disobeying them

When I was a cop, there were all kinds of things I could be fired for, including going to titty bars

There are all kinds of things I can be fired for now, as well - and all of them are related to that gold standard of employee policies - bringing negative attention or potential lost revenues on your employer

That is a standard that has stood the test of time in court when employers want to fire people.. and that's with full time employees. Contractors (which is what NFL football players are) have even less employee rights.. they literally serve at the pleasure of their organization

I don't know who is louder or more ridiculous - the people mad at the kneeling

or the people moaning about some middling QB with a bad attitude not being able to find a job

All an employer really should owe you is a paycheck.

Depends on if person is doing their job or not, and if a company goes under, you don't get squat. I'm grateful a good company is paying me for something I enjoy doing and working a great schedule, and working from remote locations. I saw 2 co-worker's get fired for talking about BLM with a third person that wasn't comfortable with the topic. My goal is to keep my mouth shut, do my job, and hope my product is still valued by customers, at least for a few more years.

[AZGrizFan]

All an employer really should owe you is a paycheck.

[89Hen]

Better? I fixed the grammar error.

So it's bad when Google or Apple give in to hammer & sickle progressive snowflakes but it's ok when the NFL gives in to red velvet neck cupcakes?

They're private organizations and can do what they want but I find the faux outrage, fragility and hypocrisy amusing.

I honestly haven't been reading the other posts and don't know to what you're referring. Seriously.

[89Hen]

On it's own it's not. When done as a protest, it is. Obviously a lot of people agree on that.

The same people that display the flag at halftime in a horizontal position, in explicit violation of the Flag Code.

Just sayin'...

Fail

[houndawg]

The same people that display the flag at halftime in a horizontal position, in explicit violation of the Flag Code.

Just sayin'...

Fail

Read it and weep.

[UNI88]

So it's bad when Google or Apple give in to hammer & sickle progressive snowflakes but it's ok when the NFL gives in to red velvet neck cupcakes?

They're private organizations and can do what they want but I find the faux outrage, fragility and hypocrisy amusing.

I honestly haven't been reading the other posts and don't know to what you're referring. Seriously.

NP - a google engineer was fired for writing an internal memo that asserted that biological causes were behind tech industry gender inequality.
Ex-Google engineer fired over gender memo sues for discrimination

It's not apples to apples but there are definite similarities and the hypocrisy of both sides in defending one action and condemning the other is amusing to say the least.

[JohnStOnge]

Underlying all of this is the "patriotism dogma" ethic that leads to things like saying it should be against the law to burn the flag. To me, it's completely inconsistent with the point of this country. When we start saying people are supposed to worship the flag, etc., there is a problem. The NFL has a right to make rules its employees must follow. But this thing of acting like it's just an absolute HORROR if someone kneels during the national anthem is a social pathology.

Fine!

But that "horror" is what drives us to fire all kinds of people who bring negative attention towards us

Wal Mart will fire you if you offend customers
Amazon will too

Hell, Google will fire you for simply disagreeing with their policies - nevermind disobeying them

When I was a cop, there were all kinds of things I could be fired for, including going to titty bars

There are all kinds of things I can be fired for now, as well - and all of them are related to that gold standard of employee policies - bringing negative attention or potential lost revenues on your employer

That is a standard that has stood the test of time in court when employers want to fire people.. and that's with full time employees. Contractors (which is what NFL football players are) have even less employee rights.. they literally serve at the pleasure of their organization

I don't know who is louder or more ridiculous - the people mad at the kneeling

or the people moaning about some middling QB with a bad attitude not being able to find a job

I agree that employers have the right to make rules governing conduct and fire or otherwise discipline people who offend customers. What disturbs me is that we have a population that would make that an issue in a situation like this. And I don't even agree with the premise behind the kneeling.

It goes beyond this NFL thing. It's this thing where, among other things, one must worship the flag as though it's an idol.

[SeattleGriz]

I liked this guy's counter point. Essentially the NFL showed they were a business by implementing the new policy due to loss of business and the players have all the other time outside of games to advocate for their cause.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ ... /35319221/

[kalm]

I liked this guy's counter point. Essentially the NFL showed they were a business by implementing the new policy due to loss of business and the players have all the other time outside of games to advocate for their cause.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ ... /35319221/

“What the protesting players don’t seem to grasp is if you protest during something, your protest is viewed as being against that thing. If you protest during the national anthem, your protest will be seen as being disrespectful to the anthem. The method overrides the message.”

When will the players ever learn to protest at the scene?

The two Browns fans protesting the players at a game got it right!

[houndawg]

I liked this guy's counter point. Essentially the NFL showed they were a business by implementing the new policy due to loss of business and the players have all the other time outside of games to advocate for their cause.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ ... /35319221/

“What the protesting players don’t seem to grasp is if you protest during something, your protest is viewed as being against that thing. If you protest during the national anthem, your protest will be seen as being disrespectful to the anthem. The method overrides the message.”

When will the players ever learn protest at the scene?

The two Browns fans protesting the players at a game got it right!

The narrative has been successfully shifted from police killing blacks to disrespecting the flag. game over.

[AZGrizFan]

“What the protesting players don’t seem to grasp is if you protest during something, your protest is viewed as being against that thing. If you protest during the national anthem, your protest will be seen as being disrespectful to the anthem. The method overrides the message.”

When will the players ever learn protest at the scene?

The two Browns fans protesting the players at a game got it right!

The narrative has been successfully shifted from police killing blacks to disrespecting the flag. game over.

subtle, yet effective.

[Chizzang]

The narrative has been successfully shifted from police killing blacks to disrespecting the flag. game over.

Agreed ^
and that's how you win any argument when you're short of a legitimate opposing idea

- The debate is about School Safety / not the 2nd amendment and gun ownership rights
- The debate is about enforcing the actual immigration laws that already exist / not jobs
- The debate is about what is actually being spent and how / not the facade of ever changing tax laws

the list goes on forever actually

[Pwns]

By all means let's talk about police killings of black people, but I'm not holding my breath waiting for a rational conversation from people who are still trying to make Mike Brown into a victim of racism, facts be damned. It's even considered "racist" to point out the fact that black men commit significantly more violent crimes per capita and that they likely are more likely to act aggressively towards police.

The NFL field is not the place to have the conversation, though, and kneeling for the national anthem is pouring gasoline on the fire. It's like having a dinner with extended family and bringing up some contentious issue at the table. It doesn't matter even if you've made a good point, because you just look like an azzhole.

And don't try to say the protest is anything other than what it is. CK has said that by not kneeling you're not showing respect for the flag of a country where the police are unjustly killing "men of color".

[Gil Dobie]

“What the protesting players don’t seem to grasp is if you protest during something, your protest is viewed as being against that thing. If you protest during the national anthem, your protest will be seen as being disrespectful to the anthem. The method overrides the message.”

When will the players ever learn protest at the scene?

The two Browns fans protesting the players at a game got it right!

The narrative has been successfully shifted from police killing blacks to disrespecting the flag. game over.

Several people on this messageboard have been saying this since the beginning. And if you listen to the media who initiated the change in view of the protest, the change from police killing blacks to the anthem/flag disrespect, morphed into being blamed on Trump

[Gil Dobie]

[kalm]

The narrative has been successfully shifted from police killing blacks to disrespecting the flag. game over.

Several people on this messageboard have been saying this since the beginning. And if you listen to the media who initiated the change in view of the protest, the change from police killing blacks to the anthem/flag disrespect, morphed into being blamed on Trump

Poor Donald...he doesn’t deserve this...

[JohnStOnge]

The narrative has been successfully shifted from police killing blacks to disrespecting the flag.

I don't think that's the case. And I say that as someone who thinks the "police killing blacks" thing is way overblown. It's a competing narrative. But the other narrative hasn't gone away. The NFL decision to say players can't kneel isn't going to make it go away either.

Also, I don't think it's going to help ratings because I don't think the players kneeling thing was one of the major factors in the ratings decline. See the article at https://www.forbes.com/sites/prishe/201 ... 2702ac4c34 for an argument in that regard.

[Gil Dobie]

Several people on this messageboard have been saying this since the beginning. And if you listen to the media who initiated the change in view of the protest, the change from police killing blacks to the anthem/flag disrespect, morphed into being blamed on Trump

Poor Donald...he doesn’t deserve this...

Pour Donald another one.

[AZGrizFan]

The narrative has been successfully shifted from police killing blacks to disrespecting the flag. game over.

Agreed ^
and that's how you win any argument when you're short of a legitimate opposing idea

- The debate is about School Safety / not the 2nd amendment and gun ownership rights
- The debate is about enforcing the actual immigration laws that already exist / not jobs
- The debate is about what is actually being spent and how / not the facade of ever changing tax laws

the list goes on forever actually

100% agreed. Just like your regular mantra, the debate is about spending not revenue.

[houndawg]

I liked this guy's counter point. Essentially the NFL showed they were a business by implementing the new policy due to loss of business and the players have all the other time outside of games to advocate for their cause.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ ... /35319221/

“What the protesting players don’t seem to grasp is if you protest during something, your protest is viewed as being against that thing. If you protest during the national anthem, your protest will be seen as being disrespectful to the anthem. The method overrides the message.”

When will the players ever learn to protest at the scene?

The two Browns fans protesting the players at a game got it right!

The players were never consulted when the owners began accepting millions from the DoD to stage these "patriotic displays" using the players. Who before about '09 stayed in the tunnel until after the anthem.

[AZGrizFan]

“What the protesting players don’t seem to grasp is if you protest during something, your protest is viewed as being against that thing. If you protest during the national anthem, your protest will be seen as being disrespectful to the anthem. The method overrides the message.”

When will the players ever learn to protest at the scene?

The two Browns fans protesting the players at a game got it right!

The players were never consulted when the owners began accepting millions from the DoD to stage these "patriotic displays" using the players. Who before about '09 stayed in the tunnel until after the anthem.

How many companies have you worked for where you, as a rank and file employee, got a say in the strategic marketing plan for the company?

[Chizzang]

The players were never consulted when the owners began accepting millions from the DoD to stage these "patriotic displays" using the players. Who before about '09 stayed in the tunnel until after the anthem.

How many companies have you worked for where you, as a rank and file employee, got a say in the strategic marketing plan for the company?

I really believe the owners should start firing the employees
and then watch the "other owners" sign them and win games

Is it about winning..? or Marketing ..?
The NFL is in the middle of a hell of a conundrum