Coronavirus COVID-19

[Gil Dobie]

Record number of covid deaths in Minnesota today, still not taking care of the vulnerable.

[Winterborn]

Record number of covid deaths in Minnesota today, still not taking care of the vulnerable.

Same in ND I believe.

686 so far in ND but that includes all causes of death, as long as one tested positive for COVID. That is with 958,841 tests completed with 313,606 unique tests. Almost half the population of ND has been tested (762K).

[SDHornet]

CA 7 day moving avg on daily deaths is at 47. Hasn't been this low since this starting kicking off in April. 7 day avg for daily cases are increasing, as expected since flu season kicks off. Loads of hospital beds available statewide.

[Pwns]

Can we create "sanctuary cities" where lockdowns won't be enforced?

[Gil Dobie]

CA 7 day moving avg on daily deaths is at 47. Hasn't been this low since this starting kicking off in April. 7 day avg for daily cases are increasing, as expected since flu season kicks off. Loads of hospital beds available statewide.

Looks like Cali peaked in August, Upper Midwest is peaking now.

[GannonFan]

Where I live in PA (Montgomery County) they're deciding today to make all schools return to virtual for two weeks starting Nov 23. They say two weeks but they said two weeks in March and for some schools they still haven't gone back. This is the kind of stuff that makes people question people in charge. There are countless studies since this pandemic began that schools are not a significant source of community transmission. Even with places like Germany going back into a type of lockdown, they've made it a point to keep schools open because there's no data saying schools are creating a problem and in school is superior to virtual school (plenty of data on that as well). They'll throw out phrases like "an abundance of caution", but that phrase really just means "we have no scientific data for this decision, but we're going to do it anyway". We haven't learned really anything since March in terms of how to deal with this pandemic, and leaders hurt their own positions of authority when they make decisions supposedly wrapped in science (and they'll tout that they are following the science) when in reality there is no science to back up what they are deciding. Heck, schools that follow all of the requirements of masking, social distancing, and cleaning that get shut down basically sends the message that masking, social distancing, and cleaning really don't work - is that the message we're sending?

Also throwing into this the New Jersey and New York restrictions that say that restaurants and other eating establishments need to close at 10PM for indoor dining every day. And bar seating needs to be closed, even if it meets all the requirements of social distancing. What's so magical about 10PM? Haven't most people already eaten by 10PM anyway? And why is eating indoors before 10PM fine but after 10PM suddenly gets dangerous? As for bar seating, if it meets the requirements of keeping people 6ft apart (or more) then why is that singled out? Again, the requirements (masking, social distancing, cleaning) don't work, then why are we still touting them?

[Gil Dobie]

Where I live in PA (Montgomery County) they're deciding today to make all schools return to virtual for two weeks starting Nov 23. They say two weeks but they said two weeks in March and for some schools they still haven't gone back. This is the kind of stuff that makes people question people in charge. There are countless studies since this pandemic began that schools are not a significant source of community transmission. Even with places like Germany going back into a type of lockdown, they've made it a point to keep schools open because there's no data saying schools are creating a problem and in school is superior to virtual school (plenty of data on that as well). They'll throw out phrases like "an abundance of caution", but that phrase really just means "we have no scientific data for this decision, but we're going to do it anyway". We haven't learned really anything since March in terms of how to deal with this pandemic, and leaders hurt their own positions of authority when they make decisions supposedly wrapped in science (and they'll tout that they are following the science) when in reality there is no science to back up what they are deciding. Heck, schools that follow all of the requirements of masking, social distancing, and cleaning that get shut down basically sends the message that masking, social distancing, and cleaning really don't work - is that the message we're sending?

Also throwing into this the New Jersey and New York restrictions that say that restaurants and other eating establishments need to close at 10PM for indoor dining every day. And bar seating needs to be closed, even if it meets all the requirements of social distancing. What's so magical about 10PM? Haven't most people already eaten by 10PM anyway? And why is eating indoors before 10PM fine but after 10PM suddenly gets dangerous? As for bar seating, if it meets the requirements of keeping people 6ft apart (or more) then why is that singled out? Again, the requirements (masking, social distancing, cleaning) don't work, then why are we still touting them?

My grandson's school went to 14 days online because of a covid positive test in his school. Hopefully he goes back Wednesday of next week. It's the first incident since starting school in September. My brothers grandson is just finishing up his 14 day quarantine, due to a substitute teacher testing positive. Covid is peaking in the upper Midwest, record numbers of active cases, and deaths per day. Heard our entire city is going home, and the hybrid schooling is being cancelled. Grandson is in a private school, so he might go back.

[Pwns]

iT dIdN'T hAVe tO Be LIkE tHis!

iF wE hAD A ReaL lEaDeRsHip LiKE eUrOpE inStEaD oF TruMp!

[kalm]

iT dIdN'T hAVe tO Be LIkE tHis!

iF wE hAD A ReaL lEaDeRsHip LiKE eUrOpE inStEaD oF TruMp!

Let’s revisit this in a couple of weeks.

[GannonFan]

Where I live in PA (Montgomery County) they're deciding today to make all schools return to virtual for two weeks starting Nov 23. They say two weeks but they said two weeks in March and for some schools they still haven't gone back. This is the kind of stuff that makes people question people in charge. There are countless studies since this pandemic began that schools are not a significant source of community transmission. Even with places like Germany going back into a type of lockdown, they've made it a point to keep schools open because there's no data saying schools are creating a problem and in school is superior to virtual school (plenty of data on that as well). They'll throw out phrases like "an abundance of caution", but that phrase really just means "we have no scientific data for this decision, but we're going to do it anyway". We haven't learned really anything since March in terms of how to deal with this pandemic, and leaders hurt their own positions of authority when they make decisions supposedly wrapped in science (and they'll tout that they are following the science) when in reality there is no science to back up what they are deciding. Heck, schools that follow all of the requirements of masking, social distancing, and cleaning that get shut down basically sends the message that masking, social distancing, and cleaning really don't work - is that the message we're sending?

Also throwing into this the New Jersey and New York restrictions that say that restaurants and other eating establishments need to close at 10PM for indoor dining every day. And bar seating needs to be closed, even if it meets all the requirements of social distancing. What's so magical about 10PM? Haven't most people already eaten by 10PM anyway? And why is eating indoors before 10PM fine but after 10PM suddenly gets dangerous? As for bar seating, if it meets the requirements of keeping people 6ft apart (or more) then why is that singled out? Again, the requirements (masking, social distancing, cleaning) don't work, then why are we still touting them?

My grandson's school went to 14 days online because of a covid positive test in his school. Hopefully he goes back Wednesday of next week. It's the first incident since starting school in September. My brothers grandson is just finishing up his 14 day quarantine, due to a substitute teacher testing positive. Covid is peaking in the upper Midwest, record numbers of active cases, and deaths per day. Heard our entire city is going home, and the hybrid schooling is being cancelled. Grandson is in a private school, so he might go back.

We've had individual cases in some schools in the district, and in those cases they did contact tracing and close contacts were asked to quarantine for two weeks. None of my kids have had to do that yet, just the luck of the draw of not being in close contact with those who had it. We haven't shut schools down here because of anyone having COVID, just did the contact tracing to prevent the spread.

The thing that gets me, and it sounds like it's in your area too, is that there is no tie whatsoever between having school and the spread of COVID in the community. But, as a remedy to the community spread, they'll close the schools. It's hollow and it doesn't follow any rational, scientifically-supported position. It's a knee-jerk reaction to say that you're doing something, but it's not science. And the problem then comes, how do you open the schools back up since you shut them down for something unrelated to the schools in the first place. Madness I tell you.

[GannonFan]

iT dIdN'T hAVe tO Be LIkE tHis!

iF wE hAD A ReaL lEaDeRsHip LiKE eUrOpE inStEaD oF TruMp!

Let’s revisit this in a couple of weeks.

Well, his point is valid even now. We like to blame Trump for anything and everything, and heck, I didn't vote for him because I think he's a narcissistic buffoon. But there's lots of evidence in places where Trump has no impact whatsoever (like the EU in his graph), and in places where people supposedly had very high adherence to masking, social distancing, and cleaning, and they still have seen COVID related outbreaks. Even in the US, you're seeing outbreaks in places that pointedly rebuffed Trump and kept their own significant restrictions in place (NY, NJ, CA for instance). It does beg the question as to whether there is a real solution to this outside of a vaccine and that while important and useful, there are significant limitations to the masking/distancing/cleaning mantra despite our adamancy that they be followed.

[kalm]

Let’s revisit this in a couple of weeks.

Well, his point is valid even now. We like to blame Trump for anything and everything, and heck, I didn't vote for him because I think he's a narcissistic buffoon. But there's lots of evidence in places where Trump has no impact whatsoever (like the EU in his graph), and in places where people supposedly had very high adherence to masking, social distancing, and cleaning, and they still have seen COVID related outbreaks. Even in the US, you're seeing outbreaks in places that pointedly rebuffed Trump and kept their own significant restrictions in place (NY, NJ, CA for instance). It does beg the question as to whether there is a real solution to this outside of a vaccine and that while important and useful, there are significant limitations to the masking/distancing/cleaning mantra despite our adamancy that they be followed.

No one said there wouldn’t be outbreaks or a fall resurgence and yes, it appears to still be highly contagious whether you’re Sweden, Germany, or the U.S.

That doesn’t excuse the lives already lost and that we’ll potentially lose over the next two months because we’re tired of it, I hate my kids, but Christmas, or something.

[Gil Dobie]

Minnesota's 7 Daily moving average of deaths is up 9 from the highest point of the first wave.
North Dakota up 15, South Dakota up 13, Montana up 8, Wisconsin up 32, Iowa up 2. Iowa had a bigger impact by the first wave than the other listed states. Will have to wait and see if it's still rising or has peaked.

[89Hen]

Well, his point is valid even now. We like to blame Trump for anything and everything, and heck, I didn't vote for him because I think he's a narcissistic buffoon. But there's lots of evidence in places where Trump has no impact whatsoever (like the EU in his graph), and in places where people supposedly had very high adherence to masking, social distancing, and cleaning, and they still have seen COVID related outbreaks. Even in the US, you're seeing outbreaks in places that pointedly rebuffed Trump and kept their own significant restrictions in place (NY, NJ, CA for instance). It does beg the question as to whether there is a real solution to this outside of a vaccine and that while important and useful, there are significant limitations to the masking/distancing/cleaning mantra despite our adamancy that they be followed.

No one said there wouldn’t be outbreaks or a fall resurgence and yes, it appears to still be highly contagious whether you’re Sweden, Germany, or the U.S.

That doesn’t excuse the lives already lost and that we’ll potentially lose over the next two months because we’re tired of it, I hate my kids, but Christmas, or something.

[Pwns]

No one said there wouldn’t be outbreaks or a fall resurgence and yes, it appears to still be highly contagious whether you’re Sweden, Germany, or the U.S.

That doesn’t excuse the lives already lost and that we’ll potentially lose over the next two months because we’re tired of it, I hate my kids, but Christmas, or something.

But is there any reason to believe more stringent lockdowns in the US would've done anything except push the time tables of infections backwards? It's hard for me to envision a scenario where they don't ultimately prove to be mistakes.

[CAA Flagship]

No one said there wouldn’t be outbreaks or a fall resurgence and yes, it appears to still be highly contagious whether you’re Sweden, Germany, or the U.S.

That doesn’t excuse the lives already lost and that we’ll potentially lose over the next two months because we’re tired of it, I hate my kids, but Christmas, or something.

But is there any reason to believe more stringent lockdowns in the US would've done anything except push the time tables of infections backwards? It's hard for me to envision a scenario where they don't ultimately prove to be mistakes.

Does that mean delaying the inevitable? If so, then that is a bit of a big deal. As time goes on, effective treatments become clearer and therapeutic drugs and vaccines are closer to realization. The critical point in the process is hospital capacity. That should be the focus for governing. If people can't be treated because of staff capacity or occupancy then something needs to be done because people, regardless of their behavior, expect to be treated.

[Pwns]

But is there any reason to believe more stringent lockdowns in the US would've done anything except push the time tables of infections backwards? It's hard for me to envision a scenario where they don't ultimately prove to be mistakes.

Does that mean delaying the inevitable? If so, then that is a bit of a big deal. As time goes on, effective treatments become clearer and therapeutic drugs and vaccines are closer to realization. The critical point in the process is hospital capacity. That should be the focus for governing. If people can't be treated because of staff capacity or occupancy then something needs to be done because people, regardless of their behavior, expect to be treated.

Sure, but that graph is deaths and not cases.

[CAA Flagship]

Does that mean delaying the inevitable? If so, then that is a bit of a big deal. As time goes on, effective treatments become clearer and therapeutic drugs and vaccines are closer to realization. The critical point in the process is hospital capacity. That should be the focus for governing. If people can't be treated because of staff capacity or occupancy then something needs to be done because people, regardless of their behavior, expect to be treated.

Sure, but that graph is deaths and not cases.

Sure but most deaths come from hospitalizations. And hospitalizations come from cases. And cases have been proven to be curtailed through good behavior. Bad behavior can be controlled with shut downs.

Trust me, I'm not a shut down guy. And I don't think shut downs are warranted by cases alone. But I think shut downs are warranted if hospital occupancy or staffing gets squeezed.

[HI54UNI]

My grandson's school went to 14 days online because of a covid positive test in his school. Hopefully he goes back Wednesday of next week. It's the first incident since starting school in September. My brothers grandson is just finishing up his 14 day quarantine, due to a substitute teacher testing positive. Covid is peaking in the upper Midwest, record numbers of active cases, and deaths per day. Heard our entire city is going home, and the hybrid schooling is being cancelled. Grandson is in a private school, so he might go back.

We've had individual cases in some schools in the district, and in those cases they did contact tracing and close contacts were asked to quarantine for two weeks. None of my kids have had to do that yet, just the luck of the draw of not being in close contact with those who had it. We haven't shut schools down here because of anyone having COVID, just did the contact tracing to prevent the spread.

The thing that gets me, and it sounds like it's in your area too, is that there is no tie whatsoever between having school and the spread of COVID in the community. But, as a remedy to the community spread, they'll close the schools. It's hollow and it doesn't follow any rational, scientifically-supported position. It's a knee-jerk reaction to say that you're doing something, but it's not science. And the problem then comes, how do you open the schools back up since you shut them down for something unrelated to the schools in the first place. Madness I tell you.

Sounds very similar to what we are seeing. We've been back in school since August 17th. We've only had 12 people with Covid to date. 6 students and 6 staff. And none of them are believed to have contracted it at school. We are doing everything we can to keep the schools open. Kids need to be in school.

[BDKJMU]

Out today:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/324146/ame ... kdown.aspx

[SDHornet]

CA 7 day moving avg on daily deaths is at 47. Hasn't been this low since this starting kicking off in April. 7 day avg for daily cases are increasing, as expected since flu season kicks off. Loads of hospital beds available statewide.

Looks like Cali peaked in August, Upper Midwest is peaking now.

I suspect this thing was in CA long before it hit the msm.

[HI54UNI]

Why am I required to wear a mask in the post office but the postal employee waiting on me isn't?

[SDHornet]

Why am I required to wear a mask in the post office but the postal employee waiting on me isn't?

The same reason why you can take your mask off to eat in a restaurant but have to wear one while waiting in line to be seated.

[GannonFan]

Why am I required to wear a mask in the post office but the postal employee waiting on me isn't?

The same reason why you can take your mask off to eat in a restaurant but have to wear one while waiting in line to be seated.

Not sure you read his question correctly.

[kalm]

Sure, but that graph is deaths and not cases.

Sure but most deaths come from hospitalizations. And hospitalizations come from cases. And cases have been proven to be curtailed through good behavior. Bad behavior can be controlled with shut downs.

Trust me, I'm not a shut down guy. And I don't think shut downs are warranted by cases alone. But I think shut downs are warranted if hospital occupancy or staffing gets squeezed.