How Long Will The Shutdown Last? (Dec 2018)

[∞∞∞]

So you advocate murder. Noted.

I advocate defense of our borders. Just like every other country on earth.

Yeah those women and children, they're all terrorists. Damn them tunneling under the border and peacefully waiting for CBP to show up and detain them; we should've blown them up instead. #notmurder

Here we have people who believe in the American Dream so much they're willing to walk thousands of dangerous miles for a chance at it. It's a shame so many Americans view this as un-American.

Maybe if embassies, consulates, or ports of entry actually allowed asylum seekers to turn themselves in, people wouldn't have to resort to desperate acts.

[JohnStOnge]

"Give me what I want and I will release the hostages."

Isn’t that also exactly what the donks are doing?

No, it's not because the Democrats want to fund all of the agencies not related to this issue then negotiate. Trump is saying no funding for those agencies until he gets what he wants. He's the hostage taker. No doubt about it.

As I've written before: The Democrats do or should reasonably think that if they give in to this extortion tactic once they will see it again and again.

[93henfan]

Why must Pelosi and Trump play this game? The solution is obvious:

Trump gives: permanent (not 3-year) DACA and TSP protection
Pelosi gives: $3.5B for border security (halfway between her $1.3B and Trump's $5.7B)

This is not hard.

[JohnStOnge]

Why must Pelosi and Trump play this game? The solution is obvious:

Trump gives: permanent (not 3-year) DACA and TSP protection
Pelosi gives: $3.5B for border security (halfway between her $1.3B and Trump's $5.7B)

This is not hard.

What SHOULD happen is McConnell should support passing an appropriations bill then over riding a presidential veto if necessary. If he decided to do that and told Trump he's going to do it Trump would probably fold. And if Trump didn't fold McConnell could almost certainly develop enough support in the Senate to over ride. What we need is for the Congress to slap Trump down so he understands that this extortion tactic is not going to work. If that happened things would go a lot more smoothly in the future.

[∞∞∞]

Why must Pelosi and Trump play this game? The solution is obvious:

Trump gives: permanent (not 3-year) DACA and TSP protection
Pelosi gives: $3.5B for border security (halfway between her $1.3B and Trump's $5.7B)

This is not hard.

I think it's fine as long as the money doesn't go to the wall. Doubt Trump would agree to that.

[BDKJMU]

Why must Pelosi and Trump play this game? The solution is obvious:

Trump gives: permanent (not 3-year) DACA and TSP protection
Pelosi gives: $3.5B for border security (halfway between her $1.3B and Trump's $5.7B)

This is not hard.

I think it's fine, as long as the money doesn't go to the wall. Doubt Trump takes it.

Ok, it goes to a “fence”.

[mainejeff]

Republicans want to destroy Democrats and Trump wants to destroy government/America. This is vengeful theater at its best....too bad so many real people are being hurt.

[∞∞∞]

I think it's fine, as long as the money doesn't go to the wall. Doubt Trump takes it.

Ok, it goes to a “fence”.

It goes to no new physical barrier other than maintaining ones already built. Most Americans don't want your stupid wall, or fence, or whatever the hell you want to call it.

[AZGrizFan]

Isn’t that also exactly what the donks are doing?

No, it's not because the Democrats want to fund all of the agencies not related to this issue then negotiate. Trump is saying no funding for those agencies until he gets what he wants. He's the hostage taker. No doubt about it.

As I've written before: The Democrats do or should reasonably think that if they give in to this extortion tactic once they will see it again and again.

Except the donks do not want to negotiate. He funds those angencies, they laugh and walk away. Guaranteed.

[AZGrizFan]

I advocate defense of our borders. Just like every other country on earth.

Yeah those women and children, they're all terrorists. Damn them tunneling under the border and peacefully waiting for CBP to show up and detain them; we should've blown them up instead. #notmurder

Here we have people who believe in the American Dream so much they're willing to walk thousands of dangerous miles for a chance at it. It's a shame so many Americans view this as un-American.

Maybe if embassies, consulates, or ports of entry actually allowed asylum seekers to turn themselves in, people wouldn't have to resort to desperate acts.

They do.

[∞∞∞]

No they don't:

Asylum

The United States does not grant asylum in its diplomatic premises abroad. Under U.S. law, the United States grants asylum only to aliens who are physically present in the United States.

https://it.usembassy.gov/embassy-consul ... eesasylum/

[AZGrizFan]

No they don't:

Asylum

The United States does not grant asylum in its diplomatic premises abroad. Under U.S. law, the United States grants asylum only to aliens who are physically present in the United States.

https://it.usembassy.gov/embassy-consul ... eesasylum/

As in....ports of entry. Several hundred a day were being given asylum at the San Diego Port of Entry.

[Ibanez]

Why can't Trump admit that the vast majority of drugs coming across the border are coming through legal ports of entry? You have to be honest before you can be negotiated with in good faith.

Right? Even Fox News states they come through legal PoE and that even in places where there are double walls, the immigrants come in through tunnels.

Really, we need Rush or Hannity to tell Trump what to do. That’s who he, sadly, listens to.


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[Ibanez]

Republicans want to destroy Democrats and Trump wants to destroy government/America. This is vengeful theater at its best....too bad so many real people are being hurt.

And the Democrats won’t compromise or meet the GOP.


Both sides are at fault...though Trump surely has the lions share


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[JohnStOnge]

No, it's not because the Democrats want to fund all of the agencies not related to this issue then negotiate. Trump is saying no funding for those agencies until he gets what he wants. He's the hostage taker. No doubt about it.

As I've written before: The Democrats do or should reasonably think that if they give in to this extortion tactic once they will see it again and again.

Except the donks do not want to negotiate. He funds those angencies, they laugh and walk away. Guaranteed.

That may be true; though I doubt it. They still want things and the Republicans still hold the Senate and the Presidency. Bottom line is that Trump is the one saying he's going to keep ANYTHING from getting funded if he doesn't get this one thing he wants. Everybody involved was ready to fund everything agreed upon then all of a sudden at the last minute Trump threw a wrench into the works and said "what I want or nothing." He's the one that stopped the process. He even publicly declared on national TV that he would shut down the government if he didn't get what he wanted. He's the extortionist and I think most Americans, thankfully, can see that.

[Ibanez]

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[93henfan]

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[93henfan]

If anyone didn't already see through Trump's strategy today, McConnell made it clear. He's going to pass the proposal through the Senate with 53 votes on Tuesday, and it will of course promptly die in the House...

But now they can try to tranfer the blame to Pelosi.

That's all today was.

McConnell's quote today:

This bill takes a bipartisan approach to re-opening the closed portions of the federal government.

Obviously a lie. There was nothing bipartisan about Trump's pitch today.

[93henfan]

So what does the base think?

[93henfan]

I decided against Uber. Them bitches aren't getting minimum wage some days.

Looking into how to be a kingpin for blow.

[JohnStOnge]

Republicans want to destroy Democrats and Trump wants to destroy government/America. This is vengeful theater at its best....too bad so many real people are being hurt.

And the Democrats won’t compromise or meet the GOP.


Both sides are at fault...though Trump surely has the lions share


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I think the Democrats might compromise once government is funded. That's the thing. The Democrat position is that they're not going to submit to extortion and I can understand them saying that. The Democrats are going to have to compromise on some things to get what THEY want at some point. But I think they're reasonable in saying they're not going to negotiate until all the things both already agree on are funded.

I mean, we all know the principle with respect to extortion. If you submit to it you encourage future instances of it. And we have a situation in which we know that what he's asking for now is just the first installment.

For Pete's sake if he really believes in the wall let him continue to make the case for it so that the People will want it. If the People want it the Democrats will see that. It'll impact their behavior. Right now they can see that most people DON'T want it. It's not the time to push them on it.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

We don't need the TSA and this shutdown needs to last until March..... 2024

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[93henfan]

We don't need the TSA and this shutdown needs to last until March..... 2024

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[ALPHAGRIZ1]

I don’t know about that.

I think way too many people - Dems, Republicans, independents, everybody - are working from the assumption that Trump gives a flying fvck...

Either the GOP in the Senate has a rebellion, or Pelosi caves on the wall, but Trump isn’t going to cave. He can do this straight on until 2020.

Agree. Trump is in IDGAF mode. GOP Senate will cave. GOP have shown themselves to be pussies time and time again.

GOP is a bunch of spineless pussies its why they won't help Trump do the people's work

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[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Trump might have to settle for less than 5.7 billion and offer something like DACA.

Everyone knows this except Trump.

Edit: Trump just saw the light. Reports are that he has moved his PR stunt until 4pm and will offer some DACA and TSP concessions. If I'm Pelosi, I tell him to open the Government immediately and we'll come to the table. It's time to stop punishing federal employees and contractors over Trump's pipe dream. Also, no way he gets $5.7B. Meet halfway at $3.5B. Dems have all the leverage. Use it.

Trump should say fuck you to that deal, he doesn't need to compromise he holds all the cards.

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