The Ukraine Crisis

[SDHornet]

The invasion doesn't happen without a foreign policy that is set on getting Ukraine into NATO. Biden and his foreign policy advisors, who are the same ones with the same policy that resulted in Crimea getting eaten, completely own this.

Can you tell me what moves were made to get Ukraine into NATO?

Ukraine was under a Putin stooge until 2014. Afterwards, NATO wasn't touching Ukraine with a 1000km pole with a proxy war raging with Russia in Donbass and Lukhansk. What steps were being made to get Ukraine into NATO?




And, why would Ukraine ever want NATO? Could it be the threat of invasion by Russia? Get them in NATO. And Finland and Sweden ASAP.

Fill us in on how was that democratically elected Putin stooge removed?

Putin rolled tanks on Crimea in 2014 after the insurrection removed that democratically elected Putin stooge that was threatening trade deals with the EU (hint hint NATO countries) in favor of Russia.

Now correlate those actions with who was in the POTUS admin then and who is in it now. Not hard to connect the dots on this one.

Edit: Here is a Zelensky speech where he states he wants Ukraine in NATO.

Editor’s Note: The following is the full translated transcript of the speech delivered by President Volodymyr Zelensky at the 58th Munich Security Conference on Feb. 19. It was published by the President’s Office and is republished here without changes. Zelensky delivered the speech in Ukrainian. Find the highlights here.

Tomorrow in Ukraine is the Day of the Heroes of the Heavenly Hundred. Eight years ago, Ukrainians made their choice, and many gave their lives for that choice. Eight years later, should Ukraine constantly call for recognition of the European perspective? Since 2014, Russia has been convincing that we have chosen the wrong path, that no one is waiting for us in Europe. Shouldn’t Europe constantly say and prove by action that this is not true? Shouldn’t the EU say today that its citizens are positive about Ukraine’s accession to the Union? Why do we avoid this question? Doesn’t Ukraine deserve direct and honest answers?

This also applies to NATO. We are told: the door is open. But so far authorized access only. If not all members of the Alliance want to see us or all members of the Alliance do not want to see us, be honest. Open doors are good, but we need open answers, not open questions for years. Isn’t the right to the truth one of our enhanced opportunities? The best time for it is the next summit in Madrid.

https://kyivindependent.com/national/ze ... onference/

[SDHornet]

Apple has prohibited sales of their product in Russia. What are they going to do when China invades Taiwan? Close all their factories and prohibit sales in China?

Guarantee that the same sanctions and isolation rhetoric we are seeing with Russia will not be seen when China eats Taiwan. In fact the same loud voices screaming for Russian sanction's/isolation will be just as loud as to why the world shouldn't do the same to China.

[SDHornet]

Interesting read on the Russian invasion strategy. I never bought into the propaganda of Ukrainians with molotov's and AKs stopping the Russian tanks from rolling, or the Ukranians having some kind of major wins aside from holding off the initial thrust on Kyiv.

Allegedly, Putin believed that the Ukrainian government would collapse once Russian troops crossed the frontier and pushed to Kyiv, and that the operation has failed because the Ukrainian government remains in place.

Putin certainly hoped for a swift victory, but he clearly was not relying on his opening salvo as the only plan for success.

Rather, the Russian military was prepared to take the country by force if a swift decapitation strike fell short.

This kind of plan should be familiar to Americans who remember the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

In the first hours of the war, the U.S. Air Force launched its 'shock and awe' campaign in an attempt to kill Saddam Hussein and other key leaders and bring down the government. Saddam survived, but the U.S. military was fully prepared to follow up with a ground assault.

A look at the Russian military offensive demonstrates there was a plan for a full-scale invasion, which Russia is now executing.

Conventional, mechanized warfare is a time and resource consuming enterprise, and an operation of this scope isn't cobbled together in days.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... 0&ito=1490

[SDHornet]

[SDHornet]

"I am Mr. McAdams and I haven't said a word!!!"

[SDHornet]

[UNI88]

Moldova needs to put those Transdniesterens in their place.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

[houndawg]

I am beginning to wonder if the Russian army will obey orders to shell the city - that would pretty much stick a fork in the whole “we are one people”thing.

It feels like the army and the oligarchs are just looking for an off ramp at this point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And why they had so many conscripts leading the assault?


I don't see how Putin can do anything but continue on the path he chose, he's pretty well fucked in any other direction. Doesn't look like he's going to fall for the old bomb-in-a-briefcase trick either - the oligarchs may have to get their own hands dirty as with Rasputin..... et tu, Oleg.....

[HI54UNI]

Apple has prohibited sales of their product in Russia. What are they going to do when China invades Taiwan? Close all their factories and prohibit sales in China?

Guarantee that the same sanctions and isolation rhetoric we are seeing with Russia will not be seen when China eats Taiwan. In fact the same loud voices screaming for Russian sanction's/isolation will be just as loud as to why the world shouldn't do the same to China.

Agreed. Watching the justification for China will be comical. First one will be, "well China has never accepted that Taiwan was an independent country."

[AZGrizFan]

Guarantee that the same sanctions and isolation rhetoric we are seeing with Russia will not be seen when China eats Taiwan. In fact the same loud voices screaming for Russian sanction's/isolation will be just as loud as to why the world shouldn't do the same to China.

Agreed. Watching the justification for China will be comical. First one will be, "well China has never accepted that Taiwan was an independent country."

And the NBA players will be lining up behind Xi to sing his praises.

[GannonFan]

Guarantee that the same sanctions and isolation rhetoric we are seeing with Russia will not be seen when China eats Taiwan. In fact the same loud voices screaming for Russian sanction's/isolation will be just as loud as to why the world shouldn't do the same to China.

Agreed. Watching the justification for China will be comical. First one will be, "well China has never accepted that Taiwan was an independent country."

I wonder how many Nazi's are hiding out in Taiwan?

[houndawg]

Guarantee that the same sanctions and isolation rhetoric we are seeing with Russia will not be seen when China eats Taiwan. In fact the same loud voices screaming for Russian sanction's/isolation will be just as loud as to why the world shouldn't do the same to China.

Agreed. Watching the justification for China will be comical. First one will be, "well China has never accepted that Taiwan was an independent country."

I think we should use Taiwan as an excuse for war with China. Its going to happen anyway

[GannonFan]

Just paid $4.19 per gallon yesterday at the pump when I was paying $3.60 something at the same gas station a month ago. And that's with us still buying 600,000 barrels of Russian oil. Considering the vast majority of Russia's economy is their energy exports, and given that we haven't cut that off yet, exactly how are these sanctions supposed to be convincing Russia to stop their invasion of Ukraine? Heck, if anything, we're encouraging them to continue - we aren't going to get involved militarily, we're not making any indications that we're supplying the Ukrainians any military material they could be using, and we keep paying Russia a fortune because we don't want to cut off their energy exports. So Russia is behaving as bad as a country could behave, and everything we're doing is just enough to not piss them off too much? Seriously, Ukraine is screwed, we've already given the Russians all the space they need to do whatever they want to in that country.

[CAA Flagship]

Just paid $4.19 per gallon yesterday at the pump when I was paying $3.60 something at the same gas station a month ago. And that's with us still buying 600,000 barrels of Russian oil. Considering the vast majority of Russia's economy is their energy exports, and given that we haven't cut that off yet, exactly how are these sanctions supposed to be convincing Russia to stop their invasion of Ukraine? Heck, if anything, we're encouraging them to continue - we aren't going to get involved militarily, we're not making any indications that we're supplying the Ukrainians any military material they could be using, and we keep paying Russia a fortune because we don't want to cut off their energy exports. So Russia is behaving as bad as a country could behave, and everything we're doing is just enough to not piss them off too much? Seriously, Ukraine is screwed, we've already given the Russians all the space they need to do whatever they want to in that country.

The thing I'm not hearing from anyone is that you can't just stop buying from Russia. There is only so much supply in the global system. If we cut them off and buy from someone else, Russia will either directly or indirectly backfill that supply in the system. We need to create a new supply add. "WE" being the operative word.

[GannonFan]

Just paid $4.19 per gallon yesterday at the pump when I was paying $3.60 something at the same gas station a month ago. And that's with us still buying 600,000 barrels of Russian oil. Considering the vast majority of Russia's economy is their energy exports, and given that we haven't cut that off yet, exactly how are these sanctions supposed to be convincing Russia to stop their invasion of Ukraine? Heck, if anything, we're encouraging them to continue - we aren't going to get involved militarily, we're not making any indications that we're supplying the Ukrainians any military material they could be using, and we keep paying Russia a fortune because we don't want to cut off their energy exports. So Russia is behaving as bad as a country could behave, and everything we're doing is just enough to not piss them off too much? Seriously, Ukraine is screwed, we've already given the Russians all the space they need to do whatever they want to in that country.

The thing I'm not hearing from anyone is that you can't just stop buying from Russia. There is only so much supply in the global system. If we cut them off and buy from someone else, Russia will either directly or indirectly backfill that supply in the system. We need to create a new supply add. "WE" being the operative word.

Indeed. In retrospect, Biden's decision to cut off a lot of domestically supplied, as well as close neighbor supplied (i.e. Keystone pipeline) energy sources the moment he got into office is starting (if you didn't think so already) to look like a catastrophic policy decision from and administration that has had more than their share of catastrophic policy decisions in just over a year in office. Of course, Europe (i.e. Germany's decision to ditch clean energy nuclear power and instead rely on Russian imports) has done their share too, but the West has pretty much signaled to Putin that he can do whatever he wants to in Ukraine and we'll just yell from the sidelines (while still paying a fortune to Putin for Russian energy). Like I said, we've pretty much told Ukraine to piss off, but we'll wave their flags and root them on while we do nothing of substance to stop Russia.

[∞∞∞]

Americans are spoiled; gas should cost a lot more. If it wasn't subsidized so heavily, it would be $10-15/gal. before the war even started. We should be leading the charge to be 100% renewable/nuclear, promoting electrification, and building a great national network of public transportation. It's also a matter of national security. Our problem is not doing enough to end America's dependency on oil, whether produced domestically or abroad.

Hopefully higher prices finally push us into actually going all in on reinventing ourselves, but I know people will just bitch instead. Posting "Biden did that" stickers while coal-rolling bicyclists and/or driving something doing 15mpg.

And I'm with everyone here saying we should completely cut off Russia's oil supply to the US. Ukrainians are suffering for their freedoms; I think we'll be fine paying a few extra dollars a gallon. Raise taxes and subsidize the poor that can't.

[Baldy]

Americans are spoiled; gas should cost a lot more. If it wasn't subsidized so heavily, it would be $10-15/gal. before the war even started. We should be leading the charge to be 100% renewable/nuclear, promoting electrification, and building a great national network of public transportation. It's also a matter of national security.

Our problem is not doing enough to end America's dependency on oil, whether produced domestically or abroad.

Hopefully higher prices finally push us into actually going all in on reinventing ourselves, but I know people will just bitch instead. Posting "Biden did that" stickers while coal-rolling bicyclists and/or driving something doing 15mpg.

Yeah, then we'll be right where Germany and the rest of Europe is now.

You folks just don't think this stuff through, do you?

[Ibanez]

Agreed. Watching the justification for China will be comical. First one will be, "well China has never accepted that Taiwan was an independent country."

And the NBA players will be lining up behind Xi to freestyle raphis praises.

FIFY

[GannonFan]

Americans are spoiled; gas should cost a lot more. If it wasn't subsidized so heavily, it would be $10-15/gal. before the war even started. We should be leading the charge to be 100% renewable/nuclear, promoting electrification, and building a great national network of public transportation. It's also a matter of national security.

Our problem is not doing enough to end America's dependency on oil, whether produced domestically or abroad.

Hopefully higher prices finally push us into actually going all in on reinventing ourselves, but I know people will just bitch instead. Posting "Biden did that" stickers while coal-rolling bicyclists and/or driving something doing 15mpg.

The heavily subsidized thing is always a red herring. It's not really subsidization to allow capital to depreciate over time and a host of other things that we allow Big Oil to do that we also allow every other industry and business to do. Should it cost more than it does? Sure, but not anything like 2x-3x more like your proposing.

As for moving to other power, absolutely we should, but those are just as heavily subsidized by the same things you are decrying we do for oil. And segments of our country have spent the past 50 years vilifying nuclear energy so much that even now, when it's blatantly obvious that we should be building several nuclear plants, we're still hearing the same hesitation that has plagued us for 50 years.

And as for transportation, that's just a pipe dream. We aren't Europe, we don't have population centered in just a small number of areas. We've already spread out around the country. There's no national public transportation solution that would be feasible without forcing tens of millions of people to uproot and move closer to each other. But it's also not needed - electric cars will be here before we know it and assuming we can build the energy production sufficiently to account for that, there won't be cars burning gas on the roads in a couple of decades. Which will be far sooner than the magical national network of public transportation that won't ever happen.

[∞∞∞]

Americans are spoiled; gas should cost a lot more. If it wasn't subsidized so heavily, it would be $10-15/gal. before the war even started. We should be leading the charge to be 100% renewable/nuclear, promoting electrification, and building a great national network of public transportation. It's also a matter of national security.

Our problem is not doing enough to end America's dependency on oil, whether produced domestically or abroad.

Hopefully higher prices finally push us into actually going all in on reinventing ourselves, but I know people will just bitch instead. Posting "Biden did that" stickers while coal-rolling bicyclists and/or driving something doing 15mpg.

Yeah, then we'll be right where Germany and the rest of Europe is now.

You folks just don't think this stuff through, do you?

The US, European Union, and NATO should also send troops to the Ukraine. I'm all-in for protecting the Ukraine at this point considering they're dying to protect their freedom. This would be a just use of troops and in-line with the values of the West.

I'm ready to challenge the notion the Russians will destroy the entire world because they can't invade Ukraine.

[GannonFan]

Americans are spoiled; gas should cost a lot more. If it wasn't subsidized so heavily, it would be $10-15/gal. before the war even started. We should be leading the charge to be 100% renewable/nuclear, promoting electrification, and building a great national network of public transportation. It's also a matter of national security.

Our problem is not doing enough to end America's dependency on oil, whether produced domestically or abroad.

Hopefully higher prices finally push us into actually going all in on reinventing ourselves, but I know people will just bitch instead. Posting "Biden did that" stickers while coal-rolling bicyclists and/or driving something doing 15mpg.

Yeah, then we'll be right where Germany and the rest of Europe is now.

You folks just don't think this stuff through, do you?

Certainties in life are death, taxes, and a not-too-small group of far left liberals who cheer on anything and everything that raises the prices of gasoline. So on one side we have dolts like Trump calling Putin savvy and on the other side we have idealists like Trip who are cheering Putin on behind closed doors because they think this is finally the moment that we'll all hold hands and turn away from oil forever.

[GannonFan]

Yeah, then we'll be right where Germany and the rest of Europe is now.

You folks just don't think this stuff through, do you?

The US, European Union, and NATO should also send troops to the Ukraine. I'm all-in for protecting the Ukraine at this point considering they're dying to protect their freedom. This would be a just use of troops and in-line with the values of the West.

I'm ready to challenge the notion the Russians will destroy the entire world because they can't invade Ukraine.

That we can agree on. If we don't stand up for one country being attacked and brutalized by another country for basically no reason other than imperial designs what would we stand up for.

[GannonFan]

Just in case anyone was wondering where China stands in all of this, they are banning any showing of the English Premier League this weekend as numerous teams were going to have planned demonstrations of support for Ukraine and for peace before and during games. So yes, China is now banning peace from their airwaves. Taiwan should just surrender now, especially since we don't really seem to have the stomach to defend anyone or anything at this point.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/60524865

[HI54UNI]

Lindsey Graham may be taking over as the dumbest politician.

Lindsey Graham doubles down on call for Vladimir Putin’s assassination

https://nypost.com/2022/03/04/lindsey-g ... tion-call/

[HI54UNI]

Yeah, then we'll be right where Germany and the rest of Europe is now.

You folks just don't think this stuff through, do you?

The US, European Union, and NATO should also send troops to the Ukraine. I'm all-in for protecting the Ukraine at this point considering they're dying to protect their freedom. This would be a just use of troops and in-line with the values of the West.

I'm ready to challenge the notion the Russians will destroy the entire world because they can't invade Ukraine.

I'm sure Ukraine will let you volunteer to carry a rifle.