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Wow...never saw this coming.

Everyone in Britain could be given a personal 'carbon allowance'
Everyone in Britain should have an annual carbon ration and be penalised if they use too much fuel, the head of the Environment Agency will say.
7:00AM GMT 09 Nov 2009

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/enviro ... wance.html

Lord Smith of Finsbury believes that implementing individual carbon allowances for every person will be the most effective way of meeting the targets for cutting greenhouse gas emissions...

...Like with a bank account, a statement would be sent out each month to help people keep track of what they are using.

If their "carbon account" hits zero, they would have to pay to get more credits.

Those who are frugal with their carbon usage will be able to sell their unused credits and make a profit.

Lord Smith will call for the scheme to be part of a "Green New Deal" to be introduced within 20 years when he addresses the agency's annual conference on Monday.

An Environment Agency spokesman said only those with "extravagant lifestyles" would be affected by the carbon allowances.

He said: "A lot of people who cycle will get money back. It will probably only be bankers and those with extravagant lifestyles who would lose out."

However, some have criticised the move as "Orwellian" and say it will have a detrimental impact on business.

Ruth Lea, an economist from Arbuthnot Banking Group, told the Daily Mail: "This is all about control of the individual and you begin to wonder whether this is what the green agenda has always been about. It's Orwellian. This will be an enormous tax on business."

...and those with "extravagant lifestyles", like bankers and aristocrats, will simply purchase more credits, while the poor, working classes, and former business owners will huddle around small heaters in their rentals, eating cold meals, and cursing that they allowed this to happen.

"Duddee. Tell us again about the carpentry business you used to own."

It's actually a fascinating study in human behavior - although I rarely agree with "more involvement" from the government, and file this under the long list of bad ideas...

it is fascinating - it feels like Europe is trying to develop a new class system...
Europe has always had much more of a class social structure than America - in fact they joke about Americas slowly developing class system as evidence that our model of Government and society once given it's proper time would ultimately become a class system like all others...

But it seems like Europe is attempting to create a new style of class system (all very interesting indeed)

We of an older generation can get along with what we have, though with growing hardship; but in your full manhood and womanhood you will want what nature once so bountifully supplied and man so thoughtlessly destroyed; and because of that want you will reproach us, not for what we have used, but for what we have wasted...So any nation which in its youth lives only for the day, reaps without sowing, and consumes without husbanding, must expect the penalty of the prodigal whose labor could with difficulty find him the bare means of life.

Defenders of the short-sighted men who in their greed and selfishness will, if permitted, rob our country of half its charm by their reckless extermination of all useful and beautiful wild things sometimes seek to champion them by saying the 'the game belongs to the people.' So it does; and not merely to the people now alive, but to the unborn people. The 'greatest good for the greatest number' applies to the number within the womb of time, compared to which those now alive form but an insignificant fraction. Our duty to the whole, including the unborn generations, bids us restrain an unprincipled present-day minority from wasting the heritage of these unborn generations. The movement for the conservation of wild life and the larger movement for the conservation of all our natural resources are essentially democratic in spirit, purpose, and method.

The conservation of natural resources is the fundamental problem. Unless we solve that problem it will avail us little to solve all others.

... back when conservatives were conservationists.

Skjellyfetti wrote:

We of an older generation can get along with what we have, though with growing hardship; but in your full manhood and womanhood you will want what nature once so bountifully supplied and man so thoughtlessly destroyed; and because of that want you will reproach us, not for what we have used, but for what we have wasted...So any nation which in its youth lives only for the day, reaps without sowing, and consumes without husbanding, must expect the penalty of the prodigal whose labor could with difficulty find him the bare means of life.

Defenders of the short-sighted men who in their greed and selfishness will, if permitted, rob our country of half its charm by their reckless extermination of all useful and beautiful wild things sometimes seek to champion them by saying the 'the game belongs to the people.' So it does; and not merely to the people now alive, but to the unborn people. The 'greatest good for the greatest number' applies to the number within the womb of time, compared to which those now alive form but an insignificant fraction. Our duty to the whole, including the unborn generations, bids us restrain an unprincipled present-day minority from wasting the heritage of these unborn generations. The movement for the conservation of wild life and the larger movement for the conservation of all our natural resources are essentially democratic in spirit, purpose, and method.

The conservation of natural resources is the fundamental problem. Unless we solve that problem it will avail us little to solve all others.

... back when conservatives were conservationists.

TR is an environmental-extremist-terrorist wacko.....

Appaholic wrote:
TR is an environmental-extremist-terrorist wacko.....

Yeah, if it wasn't for that D-Bag, we wouldn't have all of those national parks for the Mexican drug cartels to grow their drugs in.


But I guess you could throw Grant in here for Yellowstone.

Kinda sad. Tman used to be a vibrant poster back in the day. Now, he's worthless. An occasional cheap shot at environmentalist, usually cut & pasted from his arsenal of paranoid conk web ragsheets.

Tman, go back to AGS, where people like you belong.



"mmmmm, Ralph you look great. And that part in your hair is fascinating! Can I operate your poll?"

D1B wrote:Kinda sad. Tman used to be a vibrant poster back in the day. Now, he's worthless. An occasional cheap shot at environmentalist, usually cut & pasted from his arsenal of paranoid conk web ragsheets.

Tman, go back to AGS, where people like you belong.



"mmmmm, Ralph you look great. And that part in your hair is fascinating! Can I operate your poll?"

So sad to see him waste away to a mere shell of his former blustering self.

Back in the day his incessant half-witted jabbering had so much more energy. It's like he's given up.

houndawg wrote:

D1B wrote:Kinda sad. Tman used to be a vibrant poster back in the day. Now, he's worthless. An occasional cheap shot at environmentalist, usually cut & pasted from his arsenal of paranoid conk web ragsheets.

Tman, go back to AGS, where people like you belong.



"mmmmm, Ralph you look great. And that part in your hair is fascinating! Can I operate your poll?"

So sad to see him waste away to a mere shell of his former blustering self.

Back in the day his incessant half-witted jabbering had so much more energy. It's like he's given up.

He's "PSUalum1966" on AGS. All he does is talk stats with those dorks and kiss Ralph's ass. Dude has lost it seriously....



I think Portland State will beat the Griz next year. They're gonna have great special team in 2010. Unless Ralphs thinks otherwise, that is.

T's crystal ball clouded over in 2007.

Cap'n Cat wrote:T's crystal ball clouded over in 2007.

From recent posts, it looks as though he might have a drug problem.




Tman preferes the suppositories.

D1B wrote:

houndawg wrote:
So sad to see him waste away to a mere shell of his former blustering self.

Back in the day his incessant half-witted jabbering had so much more energy. It's like he's given up.

He's "PSUalum1966" on AGS. All he does is talk stats with those dorks and kiss Ralph's ass. Dude has lost it seriously....



I think Portland State will beat the Griz next year. They're gonna have great special team in 2010. Unless Ralphs thinks otherwise, that is.

NO way! He was like two years old in 66.

Probably ate lots of those sugar cubes mom and dad left in the refrigerator.

houndawg wrote:

D1B wrote:
He's "PSUalum1966" on AGS. All he does is talk stats with those dorks and kiss Ralph's ass. Dude has lost it seriously....



I think Portland State will beat the Griz next year. They're gonna have great special team in 2010. Unless Ralphs thinks otherwise, that is.

NO way! He was like two years old in 66.

Probably ate lots of those sugar cubes mom and dad left in the refrigerator.

Me and D really like Tman, no doubt about it.

If we had a nice sister, we'd introduce you to him.

It seems like we have the two prevailing global ideologies behaving as expected...
But strangely America is trying to behave a little bit like both

We exhibit classic imperialism conservative nationalism: We express this through wars... wars on terror wars on drugs wars on dictators - we're a nation in a perpetual state of WAR

All the while:

Also acting like pseudo-european liberals in our neurotic love/hate relationship with capitalism and our massive consumption of oil and consumer products all the while simultaneously pretending to be ecologically minded and environmentally concerned

We are truly neurotic as a nation... the article T-man related to this thread is an example of something we'll outwardly reject (for now) but have a closet interest as it involves "new taxes" which is our favorite drug

PLease don't reply to this thread explaining how conservatives are about smaller government - as there is not one single American example of a conservative president leaving office with a smaller government and less federal involvement than he was inaugurated with... so just let that myth die please

Chizzang wrote:It seems like we have the two prevailing global ideologies behaving as expected...
But strangely America is trying to behave a little bit like both

We exhibit classic imperialism conservative nationalism: We express this through wars... wars on terror wars on drugs wars on dictators - we're a nation in a perpetual state of WAR

All the while:

Also acting like pseudo-european liberals in our neurotic love/hate relationship with capitalism and our massive consumption of oil and consumer products all the while simultaneously pretending to be ecologically minded and environmentally concerned

We are truly neurotic as a nation... the article T-man related to this thread is an example of something we'll outwardly reject (for now) but have a closet interest as it involves "new taxes" which is our favorite drug

PLease don't reply to this thread explaining how Republicans are about smaller government - as there is not one single American example of a Republican president leaving office with a smaller government and less federal involvement than he was inaugurated with... so just let that myth die please

fify...

Appaholic wrote:

Chizzang wrote:It seems like we have the two prevailing global ideologies behaving as expected...
But strangely America is trying to behave a little bit like both

We exhibit classic imperialism conservative nationalism: We express this through wars... wars on terror wars on drugs wars on dictators - we're a nation in a perpetual state of WAR

All the while:

Also acting like pseudo-european liberals in our neurotic love/hate relationship with capitalism and our massive consumption of oil and consumer products all the while simultaneously pretending to be ecologically minded and environmentally concerned

We are truly neurotic as a nation... the article T-man related to this thread is an example of something we'll outwardly reject (for now) but have a closet interest as it involves "new taxes" which is our favorite drug

PLease don't reply to this thread explaining how Republicans are about smaller government - as there is not one single American example of a Republican president leaving office with a smaller government and less federal involvement than he was inaugurated with... so just let that myth die please

fify...

Fair enough...
but it is a MYTH - as in - a fiction perpetuated without any evidence other than the rhetoric used to keep it alive - which is different than "legend" which implies it might have happened once...

travelinman67 wrote:"Duddee. Tell us again about the days when you could club seals unabated & were even allowed to skin alive in an orgy of bloodlust.....all in the name of protecting the Sealing industry which brought in about the same amount of money to Canada as 2 McDonald's restauarants annually......

The business model Corporate Apologist's like TMan are really protecting in lieu of practicing stewardship through sustainable harvesting of natural resources....

Chizzang wrote:It seems like we have the two prevailing global ideologies behaving as expected...
But strangely America is trying to behave a little bit like both

We exhibit classic imperialism conservative nationalism: We express this through wars... wars on terror wars on drugs wars on dictators - we're a nation in a perpetual state of WAR

All the while:

Also acting like pseudo-european liberals in our neurotic love/hate relationship with capitalism and our massive consumption of oil and consumer products all the while simultaneously pretending to be ecologically minded and environmentally concerned

We are truly neurotic as a nation... the article T-man related to this thread is an example of something we'll outwardly reject (for now) but have a closet interest as it involves "new taxes" which is our favorite drug

PLease don't reply to this thread explaining how conservatives are about smaller government - as there is not one single American example of a conservative president leaving office with a smaller government and less federal involvement than he was inaugurated with... so just let that myth die please

...yet the most important facet of this debate, aristocratic controlled eugenics, is not mentioned.

Sir Francis Galton's, and later Julian Huxley, theories of class purification through human eugenics, became the backbone of 20th century British aristorcrats, and later, the American wealth horders.

Wrapped in pseudo-science, in the 30's and 40's Huxley attempted to migrate man-induced eugenic principles to "filter" out undesireable genetic traits in humans. Then, in the 40's, Britain's aristocratic families, seeing the value in Huxley's eugenic's theories as a means of preserving their authority, utilized those theories to develop global "humanitarian" policies and programs, marketed under "noble" (!) programs to feed the hungry and protect the environment, as the means to suppressing and DIMINISHING the political influence (...and existence) of the working classes. Britian's Orwellian governmental authority was just the precursor of what was intended to be a global paradigm (And which has in fact become the American standard...one which Americans have accepted that government is SUPPOSED to approve our thoughts and actions, and monitor our behavior with electronic surveillance - inet/email interception, cameras on street corners.).

Orwellian, indeed.

I've written about the formation of World Wildlife Fund too many times to recap it here, but to suffice, WWF was the grandfather of a scheme to utilize "environmental protection" as the primary tool to control working class prosperity.

Akin to the Snake Oil salesman's pitch, "It cures everything, makes you healthier, and improves your amorous life", the "Environmental destruction" sales pitch is an anathemic lure to the undeducated and gullible who've lazily abandoned critical thought. (...ahem...D1B).

While you may find my incessant rantings as droll...at heart, I am a Don Quixote. I will never give up a fight I see as morally righteous. And in this case, my utter hopes are that the fools who otherwise would be challenging the Snake Oil Saleman's pitch (...from the likes of uber intellectuals like Al Gore...???... ), will eventually awaken from their lazy slumber and remember that the power is in the working class and businesses which support humanity. (...apologies to John Galt).

In a final remark (you heard it hear first, though I've implied it to Cleets before)...

The myth of man's destruction of the environment is simply laughable to any natural scientist who pays attention. Our planet has millions of organic life forms, all co-existing in a virtually infinitely complex symbiotic system. As was demonstrated by the global natural feedback mechanisms after the eruption of Mt. Pinatubo, while cataclysmic environmental destabilizing variables DO have short term impact on global climate, the natural feedback mechanisms rapidly mitigate those variables and re-establish the equilibrium ( http://climate.envsci.rutgers.edu/pdf/V ... ocknew.pdf ).
If the premise of "man's destruction of the environment" was indeed correct, the natural system would respond with a feedback mechanism to resolve the problem...and if needed, one to mitigate (consume) the problem's source.








(...now, before you grab for your pipe/blunt to "meditate" about that last sentence, I'd like to suggest you remain sober and focus on regaining your critical thinking skills. Then, take some time to study and read SCIENCE and SCIENTIFIC DISCIPLINE, rather than wasting it listening to entertainers and politicians who benefit from your willful ignorance.)

travelinman67 wrote:

Chizzang wrote:It seems like we have the two prevailing global ideologies behaving as expected...
But strangely America is trying to behave a little bit like both

We exhibit classic imperialism conservative nationalism: We express this through wars... wars on terror wars on drugs wars on dictators - we're a nation in a perpetual state of WAR

All the while:

Also acting like pseudo-european liberals in our neurotic love/hate relationship with capitalism and our massive consumption of oil and consumer products all the while simultaneously pretending to be ecologically minded and environmentally concerned

We are truly neurotic as a nation... the article T-man related to this thread is an example of something we'll outwardly reject (for now) but have a closet interest as it involves "new taxes" which is our favorite drug

PLease don't reply to this thread explaining how conservatives are about smaller government - as there is not one single American example of a conservative president leaving office with a smaller government and less federal involvement than he was inaugurated with... so just let that myth die please

...yet the most important facet of this debate, aristocratic controlled eugenics, is not mentioned.

Sir Francis Galton's, and later Julian Huxley, theories of class purification through human eugenics, became the backbone of 20th century British aristorcrats, and later, the American wealth horders.

Wrapped in pseudo-science, in the 30's and 40's Huxley attempted to migrate man-induced eugenic principles to "filter" out undesireable genetic traits in humans. Then, in the 40's, Britain's aristocratic families, seeing the value in Huxley's eugenic's theories as a means of preserving their authority, utilized those theories to develop global "humanitarian" policies and programs, marketed under "noble" (!) programs to feed the hungry and protect the environment, as the means to suppressing and DIMINISHING the political influence (...and existence) of the working classes. Britian's Orwellian governmental authority was just the precursor of what was intended to be a global paradigm (And which has in fact become the American standard...one which Americans have accepted that government is SUPPOSED to approve our thoughts and actions, and monitor our behavior with electronic surveillance - inet/email interception, cameras on street corners.).

Orwellian, indeed.

I've written about the formation of World Wildlife Fund too many times to recap it here, but to suffice, WWF was the grandfather of a scheme to utilize "environmental protection" as the primary tool to control working class prosperity.

Akin to the Snake Oil salesman's pitch, "It cures everything, makes you healthier, and improves your amorous life", the "Environmental destruction" sales pitch is an anathemic lure to the undeducated and gullible who've lazily abandoned critical thought. (...ahem...D1B).

While you may find my incessant rantings as droll...at heart, I am a Don Quixote. I will never give up a fight I see as morally righteous. And in this case, my utter hopes are that the fools who otherwise would be challenging the Snake Oil Saleman's pitch (...from the likes of uber intellectuals like Al Gore...???... ), will eventually awaken from their lazy slumber and remember that the power is in the working class and businesses which support humanity. (...apologies to John Galt).

In a final remark (you heard it hear first, though I've implied it to Cleets before)...

The myth of man's destruction of the environment is simply laughable to any natural scientist who pays attention. Our planet has millions of organic life forms, all co-existing in a virtually infinitely complex symbiotic system. As was demonstrated by the global natural feedback mechanisms after the eruption of Mt. Pinatubo, while cataclysmic environmental destabilizing variables DO have short term impact on global climate, the natural feedback mechanisms rapidly mitigate those variables and re-establish the equilibrium ( http://climate.envsci.rutgers.edu/pdf/V ... ocknew.pdf ).
If the premise of "man's destruction of the environment" was indeed correct, the natural system would respond with a feedback mechanism to resolve the problem...and if needed, one to mitigate (consume) the problem's source.








(...now, before you grab for your pipe/blunt to "meditate" about that last sentence, I'd like to suggest you remain sober and focus on regaining your critical thinking skills. Then, take some time to study and read SCIENCE and SCIENTIFIC DISCIPLINE, rather than wasting it listening to entertainers and politicians who benefit from your willful ignorance.)

Me next, TMan! Me next!!....

Appaholic wrote:

travelinman67 wrote:
...yet the most important facet of this debate, aristocratic controlled eugenics, is not mentioned.

Sir Francis Galton's, and later Julian Huxley, theories of class purification through human eugenics, became the backbone of 20th century British aristorcrats, and later, the American wealth horders.

Wrapped in pseudo-science, in the 30's and 40's Huxley attempted to migrate man-induced eugenic principles to "filter" out undesireable genetic traits in humans. Then, in the 40's, Britain's aristocratic families, seeing the value in Huxley's eugenic's theories as a means of preserving their authority, utilized those theories to develop global "humanitarian" policies and programs, marketed under "noble" (!) programs to feed the hungry and protect the environment, as the means to suppressing and DIMINISHING the political influence (...and existence) of the working classes. Britian's Orwellian governmental authority was just the precursor of what was intended to be a global paradigm (And which has in fact become the American standard...one which Americans have accepted that government is SUPPOSED to approve our thoughts and actions, and monitor our behavior with electronic surveillance - inet/email interception, cameras on street corners.).

Orwellian, indeed.

I've written about the formation of World Wildlife Fund too many times to recap it here, but to suffice, WWF was the grandfather of a scheme to utilize "environmental protection" as the primary tool to control working class prosperity.

Akin to the Snake Oil salesman's pitch, "It cures everything, makes you healthier, and improves your amorous life", the "Environmental destruction" sales pitch is an anathemic lure to the undeducated and gullible who've lazily abandoned critical thought. (...ahem...D1B).

While you may find my incessant rantings as droll...at heart, I am a Don Quixote. I will never give up a fight I see as morally righteous. And in this case, my utter hopes are that the fools who otherwise would be challenging the Snake Oil Saleman's pitch (...from the likes of uber intellectuals like Al Gore...???... ), will eventually awaken from their lazy slumber and remember that the power is in the working class and businesses which support humanity. (...apologies to John Galt).

In a final remark (you heard it hear first, though I've implied it to Cleets before)...

The myth of man's destruction of the environment is simply laughable to any natural scientist who pays attention. Our planet has millions of organic life forms, all co-existing in a virtually infinitely complex symbiotic system. As was demonstrated by the global natural feedback mechanisms after the eruption of Mt. Pinatubo, while cataclysmic environmental destabilizing variables DO have short term impact on global climate, the natural feedback mechanisms rapidly mitigate those variables and re-establish the equilibrium ( http://climate.envsci.rutgers.edu/pdf/V ... ocknew.pdf ).
If the premise of "man's destruction of the environment" was indeed correct, the natural system would respond with a feedback mechanism to resolve the problem...and if needed, one to mitigate (consume) the problem's source.








(...now, before you grab for your pipe/blunt to "meditate" about that last sentence, I'd like to suggest you remain sober and focus on regaining your critical thinking skills. Then, take some time to study and read SCIENCE and SCIENTIFIC DISCIPLINE, rather than wasting it listening to entertainers and politicians who benefit from your willful ignorance.)

Me next, TMan! Me next!!....

Our dilemna exists due to man's narcissism and fallacious perception of our position within the natural order...

travelinman67 wrote:Our dilemna exists due to man's narcissism and fallacious perception of our position within the natural order...

That we agree upon, but for different reasons I imagine....

Appaholic wrote:

travelinman67 wrote:Our dilemna exists due to man's narcissism and fallacious perception of our position within the natural order...

That we agree upon, but for different reasons I imagine....

Human vanity.

Any good salesman flatters their prospective customer. By convincing people they have the capacity to control/effect the natural order, they have achieved their most important goal: To gain the customer's attention and fluff their ego.

travelinman67 wrote:

Appaholic wrote:
That we agree upon, but for different reasons I imagine....

Human vanity.

Any good salesman flatters their prospective customer. By convincing people they have the capacity to control/effect the natural order, they have achieved their most important goal: To gain the customer's attention and fluff their ego.

How's your fokking vanity? Ego fluffed enough yet?

Appaholic wrote: How's your fokking vanity? Ego fluffed enough yet?

"He wrote from his computer built with the copper and steel obtained from mining, powered by electricity generated by the coal power plant."








...Dickhead

travelinman67 wrote:

Appaholic wrote: How's your fokking vanity? Ego fluffed enough yet?

"He wrote from his computer built with the copper and steel obtained from mining, powered by electricity generated by the coal power plant."








...Dickhead

Now, now, don't be that way....we mined copper & steel & coal for eons without blowing the tops off of mountains...surely even you can see the difference....coksukker...