What Will It Take To Save America.....?

[Cap'n Cat]

We are in serious decline. Too much hate, too much pettiness. Polarization, stubbornness and cruelty rule the day. We have an irresponsible media that, from both directions, sensationalizes everything that is negative. We are a society that craves controversy. This board is a microsomic example. We agree on so much, yet we let the little sh*t cloud our thinking and all we do is perpetuate our sad state of affairs.

I am very worried for my children.

[Col Hogan]

First, Happy Thanksgiving, Cap and all...

To answer the question posed, I say we need to return to the very principals our country was founded on...problem with that is it would eliminate most "things" that people who call themselves "liberal" hold close to their hearts...

Back when the country was founded, those ideals were considered "liberal" then...now. most are associated with either "conservatives" or "libertarians"...

But that's just my opinion....

[Cap'n Cat]

First, Happy Thanksgiving, Cap and all...

To answer the question posed, I say we need to return to the very principals our country was founded on... problem with that is it would eliminate most "things" that people who call themselves "liberal" hold close to their hearts...

Back when the country was founded, those ideals were considered "liberal" then...now. most are associated with either "conservatives" or "libertarians"...

But that's just my opinion....

In the final analysis, all liberals want is a fair shake for everyone. What's so wrong about that?

But, yeah, it's your opinion, Hoagie................

[Col Hogan]

First, Happy Thanksgiving, Cap and all...

To answer the question posed, I say we need to return to the very principals our country was founded on... problem with that is it would eliminate most "things" that people who call themselves "liberal" hold close to their hearts...

Back when the country was founded, those ideals were considered "liberal" then...now. most are associated with either "conservatives" or "libertarians"...

But that's just my opinion....

In the final analysis, all liberals want is a fair shake for everyone. What's so wrong about that?

But, yeah, it's your opinion, Hoagie................

Because that "fair shake" has turned into a huge government, which is totally contrary to what our contry was founded on...

It's also turned into an "equal shake" for everyone...that's total BS imho...

Everyone has an equal chance to succeed...that's being turned into everyone having equal success...taking from those who have succeeded to give to those who don't succeed...

[Cap'n Cat]

In the final analysis, all liberals want is a fair shake for everyone. What's so wrong about that?

But, yeah, it's your opinion, Hoagie................

Because that "fair shake" has turned into a huge government, which is totally contrary to what our contry was founded on...

It's also turned into an "equal shake" for everyone...that's total BS imho...

Everyone has an equal chance to succeed...that's being turned into everyone having equal success...taking from those who have succeeded to give to those who don't succeed...

It may have turned into big government, but it doesn't ahve to be so. Don't assume liberals want that stuff. We desire efficiency as much as you do and ask only for an equal playing field which opffers opportunity to all. Your notions of liberalism, as with most righties here, is stuck in 1968.

But, that's just my opinion.

[CID1990]

First, Happy Thanksgiving, Cap and all...

To answer the question posed, I say we need to return to the very principals our country was founded on... problem with that is it would eliminate most "things" that people who call themselves "liberal" hold close to their hearts...

Back when the country was founded, those ideals were considered "liberal" then...now. most are associated with either "conservatives" or "libertarians"...

But that's just my opinion....

In the final analysis, all liberals want is a fair shake for everyone. What's so wrong about that?

But, yeah, it's your opinion, Hoagie................

I'm all about a fair shake, but the problem arises when people cannot grasp the fact that some people are just not going to be successful regardless of how much money, programs and goofy court rulings you throw them. There are sinkers in every society, and that's the way it is.

[clenz]

In the final analysis, all liberals want is a fair shake for everyone. What's so wrong about that?

But, yeah, it's your opinion, Hoagie................

I'm all about a fair shake, but the problem arises when people cannot grasp the fact that some people are just not going to be successful regardless of how much money, programs and goofy court rulings you throw them. There are sinkers in every society, and that's the way it is.

[dbackjon]

Colonel - returning to "the old days" only works if you are a straight, white male.

What will save our society?

Realization that EVERYONE is equal, that we are all Americans with every bit as much rights as everyone else, and that just because someone is different, or has a different view, doesn't mean they hate America.











Muzzling the talking heads would help, too.

[Col Hogan]

Because that "fair shake" has turned into a huge government, which is totally contrary to what our contry was founded on...

It's also turned into an "equal shake" for everyone...that's total BS imho...

Everyone has an equal chance to succeed...that's being turned into everyone having equal success...taking from those who have succeeded to give to those who don't succeed...

It may have turned into big government, but it doesn't ahve to be so. Don't assume liberals want that stuff. We desire efficiency as much as you do and ask only for an equal playing field which opffers opportunity to all. Your notions of liberalism, as with most righties here, is stuck in 1968.

But, that's just my opinion.

Cap, please, show me one program that Liberals have proposed that does not grow the government...

And by the way, Bush was a flaming liberal except on social issues...he loved growing government, so please don't lump me in with that Texas Twerp....

[Col Hogan]

Colonel - returning to "the old days" only works if you are a straight, white male.

What will save our society?

Realization that EVERYONE is equal, that we are all Americans with every bit as much rights as everyone else, and that just because someone is different, or has a different view, doesn't mean they hate America.











Muzzling the talking heads would help, too.

Says the man who wants special treatment for his group that no other group of people would receive...

[dbackjon]

A Strong Federal Government is an absolute requirement. Individuals, Corporations and local governments, whether at a state or local level, have proven time and time again of being incapable of allowing/promoting equality for all Americans

[dbackjon]

Colonel - returning to "the old days" only works if you are a straight, white male.

What will save our society?

Realization that EVERYONE is equal, that we are all Americans with every bit as much rights as everyone else, and that just because someone is different, or has a different view, doesn't mean they hate America.











Muzzling the talking heads would help, too.

Says the man who wants special treatment for his group that no other group of people would receive...

Please explain the "special" treatment I am looking for?

Please explain WHAT THE FUCK I AM asking for that every other American doesn't have???

[Col Hogan]

A Strong Federal Government is an absolute requirement. Individuals, Corporations and local governments, whether at a state or local level, have proven time and time again of being incapable of allowing/promoting equality for all Americans

I'm all for a strong federal Government, as long as it doesn't violate the 10th amendment of the Constitution...

[Col Hogan]

Says the man who wants special treatment for his group that no other group of people would receive...

Please explain the "special" treatment I am looking for?

Please explain WHAT THE **** I AM asking for that every other American doesn't have???

Gladly...

If I get the shit kicked out of me on the street, the attacker is charged with the appropriate crime, tried, sentenced and goes to jail for the appropriate number of years...

But gays want an additional charge added if the person attacked is gay...called hate crime...so that additional time is added to the sentence...


An attack is an attack is an attack...if someone attacks me, they obviously hate me...but because I'm a straight, white male, I'm not entitled to the additional "coverage" you have demanded...

[dbackjon]

A Strong Federal Government is an absolute requirement. Individuals, Corporations and local governments, whether at a state or local level, have proven time and time again of being incapable of allowing/promoting equality for all Americans

I'm all for a strong federal Government, as long as it doesn't violate the 10th amendment of the Constitution...

I actually agree, for the most part. The Federal Government's role in many areas should be limited to ensuring a state treats ALL citizens equally. For example, in education, I don't believe in Federal standards, funding, etc, but limit it to ensuring that all children, regardless of race, income level, etc have access to the same education.

[dbackjon]

Please explain the "special" treatment I am looking for?

Please explain WHAT THE **** I AM asking for that every other American doesn't have???

Gladly...

If I get the shit kicked out of me on the street, the attacker is charged with the appropriate crime, tried, sentenced and goes to jail for the appropriate number of years...

But gays want an additional charge added if the person attacked is gay...called hate crime...so that additional time is added to the sentence...


An attack is an attack is an attack...if someone attacks me, they obviously hate me...but because I'm a straight, white male, I'm not entitled to the additional "coverage" you have demanded...

You do realize that Hate Crime legislation has existed for a long time, and covers religion, race, etc.

I have no problem scrapping the entire Hate Crime theory, but if there is going to be a Hate Crime legislation, then sexual orientation must be included, since there are many violent acts against Americans SOLELY because of their sexual orientation.


Verdict: Fail on Colonel part

[Col Hogan]

Gladly...

If I get the **** kicked out of me on the street, the attacker is charged with the appropriate crime, tried, sentenced and goes to jail for the appropriate number of years...

But gays want an additional charge added if the person attacked is gay...called hate crime...so that additional time is added to the sentence...


An attack is an attack is an attack...if someone attacks me, they obviously hate me...but because I'm a straight, white male, I'm not entitled to the additional "coverage" you have demanded...

You do realize that Hate Crime legislation has existed for a long time, and covers religion, race, etc.

I have no problem scrapping the entire Hate Crime theory, but if there is going to be a Hate Crime legislation, then sexual orientation must be included, since there are many violent acts against Americans SOLELY because of their sexual orientation.


Verdict: Fail on Colonel part

I'll admit failure when you can show me an incident where the hate crime statute was used to protect a white Catholic...where a gay was charged with a hate crime for attacking a straight...or against a black who attacked an Hispanic...

[native]

First, Happy Thanksgiving, Cap and all...

To answer the question posed, I say we need to return to the very principals our country was founded on... problem with that is it would eliminate most "things" that people who call themselves "liberal" hold close to their hearts...

Back when the country was founded, those ideals were considered "liberal" then...now. most are associated with either "conservatives" or "libertarians"...

But that's just my opinion....

In the final analysis, all liberals want is a fair shake for everyone. What's so wrong about that?

But, yeah, it's your opinion, Hoagie................

The problem is that what you said is not truthful, Cap. In fact, it is the biggest lie of our time.

Government control is not fair for everyone. Large government is not fair for everyone. Destruction of the Constitution is not fair for everyone. Confiscatory taxes are not fair for everyone. Something for nothing is not fair for everyone. Libertine social values, although exhilarating at first, are not fair for everyone.

[Col Hogan]

Gladly...

If I get the **** kicked out of me on the street, the attacker is charged with the appropriate crime, tried, sentenced and goes to jail for the appropriate number of years...

But gays want an additional charge added if the person attacked is gay...called hate crime...so that additional time is added to the sentence...


An attack is an attack is an attack...if someone attacks me, they obviously hate me...but because I'm a straight, white male, I'm not entitled to the additional "coverage" you have demanded...

You do realize that Hate Crime legislation has existed for a long time, and covers religion, race, etc.

I have no problem scrapping the entire Hate Crime theory, but if there is going to be a Hate Crime legislation, then sexual orientation must be included, since there are many violent acts against Americans SOLELY because of their sexual orientation.


Verdict: Fail on Colonel part

By the way...how did I fail...you admitted you want special treatment for your group...

If I'm attacked, my attacker is only charged with one crime...if you are attacked, you want your attacker charged with two crimes...

Both attacks hurt just as much,,,but you want special treatment...you have proven my point...

And that, my friend, is why America is going to hell in a hand basket...

I'm all for equal treatment for all people...but too many groups want special treatment...that does not fit into the American ideal that ALL PEOPLE are equal...

[native]

Gladly...

If I get the **** kicked out of me on the street, the attacker is charged with the appropriate crime, tried, sentenced and goes to jail for the appropriate number of years...

But gays want an additional charge added if the person attacked is gay...called hate crime...so that additional time is added to the sentence...


An attack is an attack is an attack...if someone attacks me, they obviously hate me...but because I'm a straight, white male, I'm not entitled to the additional "coverage" you have demanded...

You do realize that Hate Crime legislation has existed for a long time, and covers religion, race, etc.

I have no problem scrapping the entire Hate Crime theory, but if there is going to be a Hate Crime legislation, then sexual orientation must be included, since there are many violent acts against Americans SOLELY because of their sexual orientation.

Verdict: Fail on Colonel part

Blah blah blah... Colonel gets an A+ for having the balls to say the truth.

I don't disagree that gays must be included if there is to be hate crime legislation, but hate crime legislation in general is pandering so that some groups get special privileges over and above others. Hate crimes are enforced and sensationalized only to fit the politically correct sentiment du jour.

[Chizzang]

Just reading the the ebb and flow of this thread puts the question in perspective...

Q: What will save America...
A: Nothing - it's not broken - it is simply a reflection of how we've made it..!!!

People (both citizens and foreigners) have been calling America broken for 200 years

[DJH]

In the final analysis, all liberals want is a fair shake for everyone. What's so wrong about that?

But, yeah, it's your opinion, Hoagie................

I'm all about a fair shake, but the problem arises when people cannot grasp the fact that some people are just not going to be successful regardless of how much money, programs and goofy court rulings you throw them. There are sinkers in every society, and that's the way it is.

This is exactly right IMO. There are simply too many lazy people in this country right now that expect the world, without earning anything. Too many handouts...

[AZGrizFan]

This country needs to accept the fact that ALL people are created equal, and get rid of legislation/groups that give certain segments special consideration:

NAACP, Black Congressional Caucus, etc. Groups like this, while necessary at one time in our nation's history, now just continue to perpetuate the divide that should no longer exist between races.

Either that, or we need a revolution and to start over.




Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.

[native]

Just reading the the ebb and flow of this thread puts the question in perspective...

Q: What will save America...
A: Nothing - it's not broken - it is simply a reflection of how we've made it..!!!

People (both citizens and foreigners) have been calling America broken for 200 years

I will accept that post as a hopeful, glass-is-half-full message!

Happy Thanksgiving, Cleets!

[catamount man]

a sense of true humility and sincere prayers to our Creator asking him to forgive us and to heal our land is a great first step:

" If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." 2 Chronicles 7:14 (King James Version)

next, we need to quit meddling in every other nation's affairs when we can't even feed our own citizens or provide jobs to them either.

any and every politician that EVER received a kick back for helping to send U.S. jobs overseas should be FORCED to go sit in an unemployment office one day and look at the faces of masses that are sincerely scared about their future and their families futures.

love and respect all..........no matter what differences abound and lastly............................

VOTE ALL CURRENT POLITICIANS THE HELL OUT OF OFFICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!