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So I had some family over for Thanksgiving, and a significant portion of them claimed that Illegal Aliens and Terrorists have no Constitutional rights. I was shocked that people at this time and age still believe that myth. (well it is my extended family, so maybe I shouldn't be surprised lol)

Supreme Court ruling establishing that Illegal Aliens have the 5th Amendment right:
"But once an alien enters the country, the legal circumstance changes, for the Due Process Clause applies to all "persons" within the United States, including aliens, whether their presence here is lawful, unlawful, temporary, or permanent..."
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/g ... ol=99-7791

Supreme Court ruling establishing the suspected terrorists have the Constitutional right to habeas corpus:
Boumediene v. Bush
Q:
Are the detainees at Guantanamo Bay entitled to the protection of the Fifth Amendment right not to be deprived of liberty without due process of law and of the Geneva Conventions?
A:
A five-justice majority answered yes to each of these questions.
http://www.oyez.org/cases/2000-2009/2007/2007_06_1195

After showing this evidence to my doubting family members, their only reply was "don't believe erything you read on the Internet"

Actually, it just proves how fucked up the Supreme Court has become.

RobsPics wrote:So I had some family over for Thanksgiving, and a significant portion of them claimed that Illegal Aliens and Terrorists have no Constitutional rights. I was shocked that people at this time and age still believe that myth. (well it is my extended family, so maybe I shouldn't be surprised lol)

Supreme Court ruling establishing that Illegal Aliens have the 5th Amendment right:
"But once an alien enters the country, the legal circumstance changes, for the Due Process Clause applies to all "persons" within the United States, including aliens, whether their presence here is lawful, unlawful, temporary, or permanent..."
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/g ... ol=99-7791

Supreme Court ruling establishing the suspected terrorists have the Constitutional right to habeas corpus:
Boumediene v. Bush
Q:
Are the detainees at Guantanamo Bay entitled to the protection of the Fifth Amendment right not to be deprived of liberty without due process of law and of the Geneva Conventions?
A:
A five-justice majority answered yes to each of these questions.
http://www.oyez.org/cases/2000-2009/2007/2007_06_1195

After showing this evidence to my doubting family members, their only reply was "don't believe erything you read on the Internet"

Your family members are right. This would not be the court's first fvck up and it will undoubtedly not be its last.

native wrote:

RobsPics wrote:So I had some family over for Thanksgiving, and a significant portion of them claimed that Illegal Aliens and Terrorists have no Constitutional rights. I was shocked that people at this time and age still believe that myth. (well it is my extended family, so maybe I shouldn't be surprised lol)

Supreme Court ruling establishing that Illegal Aliens have the 5th Amendment right:
"But once an alien enters the country, the legal circumstance changes, for the Due Process Clause applies to all "persons" within the United States, including aliens, whether their presence here is lawful, unlawful, temporary, or permanent..."
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/g ... ol=99-7791

Supreme Court ruling establishing the suspected terrorists have the Constitutional right to habeas corpus:
Boumediene v. Bush
Q:
Are the detainees at Guantanamo Bay entitled to the protection of the Fifth Amendment right not to be deprived of liberty without due process of law and of the Geneva Conventions?
A:
A five-justice majority answered yes to each of these questions.
http://www.oyez.org/cases/2000-2009/2007/2007_06_1195

After showing this evidence to my doubting family members, their only reply was "don't believe erything you read on the Internet"

Your family members are right. This would not b te court's first fvck up and it will undoubtedly not be its last.

There s a difference between not agreeing with the Supreme Court decision versus claiming one doesn't have Constitutional rights.

You are 100% to disagree with the court. But that doesn't change the fact that those Illegal Aliens and Terrorists still have their Constitutional rights under the law....because the Supreme Court decides and interprets the Constitution, not you.

native and Az - if you do not believe that illegals have Constitutional rights, then you do not believe in the Constitution itself, and all of your bleating about "going back to the Constitution", etc is all a bunch of hot air.

Do illegals have the right to vote or run for office? Those are constitutional rights. If not, why not? If they have some constitutional rights but not others, why?

dbackjon wrote:native and Az - if you do not believe that illegals have Constitutional rights, then you do not believe in the Constitution itself, and all of your bleating about "going back to the Constitution", etc is all a bunch of hot air.

Rereading their posts, I don't think ether said the illegals don't have rights....they just bemoan the SC ruling that gave the rights to illegals...

Because no where in the Constitution does it mention illegal aliens...a court had to make that interpretation...

Nothing inconsistent here...

dbackjon wrote:native and Az - if you do not believe that illegals have Constitutional rights, then you do not believe in the Constitution itself, and all of your bleating about "going back to the Constitution", etc is all a bunch of hot air.

See CitadelGrad's post directly below yours.

CitadelGrad wrote:Do illegals have the right to vote or run for office? Those are constitutional rights. If not, why not? If they have some constitutional rights but not others, why?

No one is arguing that Illegal Aliens have every single right exactly like US Citizens.

But when it comes down to basic ideals like the administration of justice in or court system, then yes even Illegal Aliens have some Constitutional rights...like the 5th and 14th Amendments due process clause....and the US Supreme Court has ruled exactly that.

Col Hogan wrote:

dbackjon wrote:native and Az - if you do not believe that illegals have Constitutional rights, then you do not believe in the Constitution itself, and all of your bleating about "going back to the Constitution", etc is all a bunch of hot air.

Rereading their posts, I don't think ether said the illegals don't have rights....they just bemoan the SC ruling that gave the rights to illegals...

Because no where in the Constitution does it mention illegal aliens...a court had to make that interpretation...

Nothing inconsistent here...

...not to mention, I could really care less about the "illegal aliens" and more about giving those same rights to terrorists who are actually war criminals and should have been tried and summarily hanged in Guantanamo, never to have set foot on American soil.

RobsPics wrote:

CitadelGrad wrote:Do illegals have the right to vote or run for office? Those are constitutional rights. If not, why not? If they have some constitutional rights but not others, why?

No one is arguing that Illegal Aliens have every single right exactly like US Citizens.

But when it comes down to basic ideals like the administration of justice in or court system, then yes even Illegal Aliens have some Constitutional rights...like the 5th and 14th Amendments due process clause....and the US Supreme Court has ruled exactly that.

part of that whole "living document" bullshit then, huh? Picking and choosing which parts and when they apply?

AZGrizFan wrote:

RobsPics wrote:
No one is arguing that Illegal Aliens have every single right exactly like US Citizens.

But when it comes down to basic ideals like the administration of justice in or court system, then yes even Illegal Aliens have some Constitutional rights...like the 5th and 14th Amendments due process clause....and the US Supreme Court has ruled exactly that.

part of that whole "living document" bullshit then, huh? Picking and choosing which parts and when they apply?

Yup that's what the Supreme Court ruled...meaning that Illegal Aliens have at least some Constitutional rights... whether you want to admit it or not doesn't really mater.

AZGrizFan wrote:

RobsPics wrote:
No one is arguing that Illegal Aliens have every single right exactly like US Citizens.

But when it comes down to basic ideals like the administration of justice in or court system, then yes even Illegal Aliens have some Constitutional rights...like the 5th and 14th Amendments due process clause....and the US Supreme Court has ruled exactly that.

part of that whole "living document" bullshit then, huh? Picking and choosing which parts and when they apply?

Shaking my head at your lack of Constitutional Respect, and lack of knowledge at the process.

If the founding Fathers DIDN"T intend for the document to be interpreted, then WHY THE HELL DID THEY establish a SUPREME COURT???

A court that is EQUAL TO THE EXECUTIVE AND LEGISLATIVE Branch??

Like most anti-court Conks, you FAIL Civics...

I'll say it again for those who lack reading comprehension: I could give a flying vertical fuck about the illegal aliens. It's granting those same rights to war criminals who should have been tried and hanged YEARS ago that makes me shake my head.

dbackjon wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:
part of that whole "living document" bullshit then, huh? Picking and choosing which parts and when they apply?

Shaking my head at your lack of Constitutional Respect, and lack of knowledge at the process.

If the founding Fathers DIDN"T intend for the document to be interpreted, then WHY THE HELL DID THEY establish a SUPREME COURT???

A court that is EQUAL TO THE EXECUTIVE AND LEGISLATIVE Branch??

Like most anti-court Conks, you FAIL Civics...

Do you honestly believe that the founding fathers intended the document to be applied only when it was convenient or politically expedient to do so?

Be cause if you do, then YOU fail civics, my friend.

dbackjon wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:
part of that whole "living document" bullshit then, huh? Picking and choosing which parts and when they apply?

Shaking my head at your lack of Constitutional Respect, and lack of knowledge at the process.

If the founding Fathers DIDN"T intend for the document to be interpreted, then WHY THE HELL DID THEY establish a SUPREME COURT???

A court that is EQUAL TO THE EXECUTIVE AND LEGISLATIVE Branch??

Like most anti-court Conks, you FAIL Civics...

None of the conks here are anti-court. They are pro-Constitution and thus pro-court as the courts were intended. However, most are against the strong Democratic tradition of liberal/communist judicial activism.

AZGrizFan wrote:I'll say it again for those who lack reading comprehension: I could give a flying vertical fuck about the illegal aliens. It's granting those same rights to war criminals who should have been tried and hanged YEARS ago that makes me shake my head.

When you start denying due process to one group of people, no matter how repugnent, it is easy to start denying to others.

Our Republic is STRONGER because of it.

AZGrizFan wrote:

dbackjon wrote:
Shaking my head at your lack of Constitutional Respect, and lack of knowledge at the process.

If the founding Fathers DIDN"T intend for the document to be interpreted, then WHY THE HELL DID THEY establish a SUPREME COURT???

A court that is EQUAL TO THE EXECUTIVE AND LEGISLATIVE Branch??

Like most anti-court Conks, you FAIL Civics...

Do you honestly believe that the founding fathers intended the document to be applied only when it was convenient or politically expedient to do so?

Be cause if you do, then YOU fail civics, my friend.

Nope, but that is what your civic failure wants to do.

RobsPics wrote:
Yup that's what the Supreme Court ruled...meaning that Illegal Aliens have at least some Constitutional rights... whether you want to admit it or not doesn't really mater.

Rob,
I enjoy how you live in the "reality" of a situation... instead of living in denial and resistance
You'll find - regardless of the nature of the present reality - we have a whole bunch of very fearful posters who live in "What should be" and "what used to be"

and that's an endlessly frustrating place to be... WHAT IS - has acceptance of reality and a solution built right into it - which is a great lace to be...

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that some men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Chizzang wrote:

RobsPics wrote:
Yup that's what the Supreme Court ruled...meaning that Illegal Aliens have at least some Constitutional rights... whether you want to admit it or not doesn't really mater.

Rob,
I enjoy how you live in the "reality" of a situation... instead of living in denial and resistance
You'll find - regardless of the nature of the present reality - we have a whole bunch of very fearful posters who live in "What should be" and "what used to be"

and that's an endlessly frustrating place to be... WHAT IS - has acceptance of reality and a solution built right into it - which is a great lace to be...

Excellent point. Martin Luther King should have just accepted reality and kept those big lips shut. Resistance is futile.

CitadelGrad wrote:

Chizzang wrote:
Rob,
I enjoy how you live in the "reality" of a situation... instead of living in denial and resistance
You'll find - regardless of the nature of the present reality - we have a whole bunch of very fearful posters who live in "What should be" and "what used to be"

and that's an endlessly frustrating place to be... WHAT IS - has acceptance of reality and a solution built right into it - which is a great lace to be...

Excellent point. Martin Luther King should have just accepted reality and kept those big lips shut. Resistance is futile.

Not at all the point...
Very few people seem to understand me when I try to express the nature of "What is" and finding the first step of the solution in understanding and accepting the present reality

I don't think I explain it very well - I'm certainly not saying "shut your mouth" as you imply...
In fact Martin Luther King had it pretty spot on, he's a great example of the point I'm trying to make, where the insanity of fighting insanity with more insanity - is insanity...

Somebody like Martin Luther King or Gandi or Jesus would have no chance of being successful in activating change today... because they dealt with the insanity of their societal issues - not with more insanity...

Insanity begets insanity

dbackjon wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:
Do you honestly believe that the founding fathers intended the document to be applied only when it was convenient or politically expedient to do so?

Be cause if you do, then YOU fail civics, my friend.

Nope, but that is what your civic failure wants to do.

Try and follow the adult conversation, Jon: The Supreme Court has ruled aliens and terrorists are covered under the constitution when it comes to due process. There are OTHER rights granted by the consitution (voting, etc,) that illegal aliens and terrorists are NOT afforded. So I ask again, do you honestly believe that our founding fathers intended the document to be applied only when it was convenient or politically expedient to do so?

See, I don't want them covered by ANY part of the constitution. So I'm not sure how it's only being applied when it's convenient in my case.

Chizzang wrote: Not at all the point...
Very few people seem to understand me when I try to express the nature of "What is" and finding the first step of the solution in understanding and accepting the present reality

I don't think I explain it very well - I'm certainly not saying "shut your mouth" as you imply...
In fact Martin Luther King had it pretty spot on, he's a great example of the point I'm trying to make, where the insanity of fighting insanity with more insanity - is insanity...

Somebody like Martin Luther King or Gandi or Jesus would have no chance of being successful in activating change today... because they dealt with the insanity of their societal issues - not with more insanity...

Insanity begets insanity

When the Republicans held the Presidency, the Senate and the House, that was reality. Did you just accept it to avoid insanity?

It may not be a good question but your explanation is still lacking.

TheDancinMonarch wrote:

Chizzang wrote: Not at all the point...
Very few people seem to understand me when I try to express the nature of "What is" and finding the first step of the solution in understanding and accepting the present reality

I don't think I explain it very well - I'm certainly not saying "shut your mouth" as you imply...
In fact Martin Luther King had it pretty spot on, he's a great example of the point I'm trying to make, where the insanity of fighting insanity with more insanity - is insanity...

Somebody like Martin Luther King or Gandi or Jesus would have no chance of being successful in activating change today... because they dealt with the insanity of their societal issues - not with more insanity...

Insanity begets insanity

When the Republicans held the Presidency, the Senate and the House, that was reality. Did you just accept it to avoid insanity?

It may not be a good question but your explanation is still lacking.

It was an absolute truth - that could not be explained away or reasoned away... there was simply no denying that The Republicans had secured the political landscape of America - they did so by speaking to peoples interests and needs, as well as their fears and anxieties - it was brilliantly executed

I didn't scream Liberal rhetoric at the top of my lungs on the white house lawn holding signs with misspelled words and catch phrases that I didn't understand... I didn't make up complete fictions and espouse them as truths to help me feel better about myself

I didn't claim that Republicans were here to destroy America and that if we didn't act fast the very fabric of the free world would be shredded and we would be annihilated if they weren't removed from office

Presently:
The constitution is still in place and functioning just fine... The branches of the government remain unchanged in their functions and feebleness... in time this group of knuckleheads will be replaced by a new group of knuckleheads - life as we know it will go on...

the below cartoon sums it up... it is unknown if what is happening now is GOOD or BAD... we simply honestly don't know... all that appears bad sometimes becomes a necessary vehicle for good - so was it then good or bad..?