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Taxes under Clinton 1999

Single making 30K - tax $8,400

Single making 50K - tax $14,000

Single making 75K - tax $23,250

Married making 60K - tax $16,800

Married making 75K - tax $21,000

Married making 125K - tax $38,750

Taxes under Bush 2008

Single making 30K - tax $4,500

Single making 50K - tax $12,500

Single making 75K - tax $18,750

Married making 60K - tax $9,000

Married making 75K - tax $18,750

Married making 125K - tax $31,250



If you want to know just how effective the mainstream media is, it is amazing how many people that fall into the categories above think Bush is screwing them and Bill Clinton was the greatest President ever, AND that Barak Obama or Hillary Clinton will save them. If any democrat is elected, ALL of them say they will repeal the Bush tax cuts and a good portion of the people that fall into the categories above can't wait for it to happen. This is like the movie The Sting with Paul Newman; you scam somebody out of some money and they don't even know what happened.

Source?

Because honestly, for me, when the Bush "cuts" went into place, my tax bill didn't change by more than a few hundred.

Those are the base tax rates. Obviously, each individual situation is different depending on personal and/or itemized deductions.

Personally, I've seen huge tax returns every year Bush has been in office, beginning in 2000. Prior to that, my tax bill was fairly balanced, and I got back minor refunds or paid minor bills. I'm now up to 11 dependants claimed on my W-4 form, and STILL can't get the tax bill low enough on a per-paycheck basis to avoid $4,000+ returns at the end of the year.

11 Dependents? Damn dude, are you Catholic or do you just bone like us?

MarkCCU wrote:11 Dependents? Damn dude, are you Catholic or do you just bone like us?

I said 11 on my W-4, Einstein.

Try and keep up, will you?

AZGrizFan wrote:Those are the base tax rates. Obviously, each individual situation is different depending on personal and/or itemized deductions.

Personally, I've seen huge tax returns every year Bush has been in office, beginning in 2000. Prior to that, my tax bill was fairly balanced, and I got back minor refunds or paid minor bills. I'm now up to 11 dependants claimed on my W-4 form, and STILL can't get the tax bill low enough on a per-paycheck basis to avoid $4,000+ returns at the end of the year.

I understand "overestimating" dependents to keep yourself from giving the feds an interest-free loan. But isn't taking it THAT far at the very least a bit unethical, if not flat-out illegal?

Wow!

SuperHornet wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:Those are the base tax rates. Obviously, each individual situation is different depending on personal and/or itemized deductions.

Personally, I've seen huge tax returns every year Bush has been in office, beginning in 2000. Prior to that, my tax bill was fairly balanced, and I got back minor refunds or paid minor bills. I'm now up to 11 dependants claimed on my W-4 form, and STILL can't get the tax bill low enough on a per-paycheck basis to avoid $4,000+ returns at the end of the year.

I understand "overestimating" dependents to keep yourself from giving the feds an interest-free loan. But isn't taking it THAT far at the very least a bit unethical, if not flat-out illegal?

Wow!

How is it illegal? I say 11 dependents, and I STILL get back almost $3,000. What should be ILLEGAL is those fucks having an interest free loan from me for the entire year----EVERY year. It's complete BS.

AZGrizFan wrote:How is it illegal? I say 11 dependents, and I STILL get back almost $3,000. What should be ILLEGAL is those f**k[*] having an interest free loan from me for the entire year----EVERY year. It's complete BS.

http://www.fairtax.org

On the W4 you are not claiming dependents you are claiming the number of withholding allowances you want to take (head of household, dependent, etc...) and if you are trying to lower the amount taken out of your check as you are always giving the money to the government to hold for you for the year then what is unethical about it if he is over paying anyway? He probably has a 401k and several other vehicles (rising property taxes, stock market losses, etc...) that allows him to take more withholding allowances and so forth. If you are in contact with your accountant and have a good estimate of how your taxes are going to work out at year end then taking more allowances would be a good strategy. Also if you pay your taxes at the end of the year even if you end up owing then there is still no harm/no foul as far as my understanding of this goes. The only caveat to all of this is with each withholding allowance that you claim you should have a good reason or explanation for that withholding allowance for when/if you are audited.

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:On the W4 you are not claiming dependents you are claiming the number of withholding allowances you want to take (head of household, dependent, etc...) and if you are trying to lower the amount taken out of your check as you are always giving the money to the government to hold for you for the year then what is unethical about it if he is over paying anyway? He probably has a 401k and several other vehicles (rising property taxes, stock market losses, etc...) that allows him to take more withholding allowances and so forth. If you are in contact with your accountant and have a good estimate of how your taxes are going to work out at year end then taking more allowances would be a good strategy. Also if you pay your taxes at the end of the year even if you end up owing then there is still no harm/no foul as far as my understanding of this goes. The only caveat to all of this is with each withholding allowance that you claim you should have a good reason or explanation for that withholding allowance for when/if you are audited.

I have a good explanation: I payed $36,000 in mortgage interest this year.

AZGrizFan wrote:

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:On the W4 you are not claiming dependents you are claiming the number of withholding allowances you want to take (head of household, dependent, etc...) and if you are trying to lower the amount taken out of your check as you are always giving the money to the government to hold for you for the year then what is unethical about it if he is over paying anyway? He probably has a 401k and several other vehicles (rising property taxes, stock market losses, etc...) that allows him to take more withholding allowances and so forth. If you are in contact with your accountant and have a good estimate of how your taxes are going to work out at year end then taking more allowances would be a good strategy. Also if you pay your taxes at the end of the year even if you end up owing then there is still no harm/no foul as far as my understanding of this goes. The only caveat to all of this is with each withholding allowance that you claim you should have a good reason or explanation for that withholding allowance for when/if you are audited.

I have a good explanation: I payed $36,000 in mortgage interest this year.

Holy Shit!

AZGrizFan wrote:

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:On the W4 you are not claiming dependents you are claiming the number of withholding allowances you want to take (head of household, dependent, etc...) and if you are trying to lower the amount taken out of your check as you are always giving the money to the government to hold for you for the year then what is unethical about it if he is over paying anyway? He probably has a 401k and several other vehicles (rising property taxes, stock market losses, etc...) that allows him to take more withholding allowances and so forth. If you are in contact with your accountant and have a good estimate of how your taxes are going to work out at year end then taking more allowances would be a good strategy. Also if you pay your taxes at the end of the year even if you end up owing then there is still no harm/no foul as far as my understanding of this goes. The only caveat to all of this is with each withholding allowance that you claim you should have a good reason or explanation for that withholding allowance for when/if you are audited.

I have a good explanation: I payed $36,000 in mortgage interest this year.

That would definitely qualify as a good explanation. Since each withholding allowance accounts for $3400 then that one alone puts you up at 10 before anything else.

AZGrizFan wrote:

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:On the W4 you are not claiming dependents you are claiming the number of withholding allowances you want to take (head of household, dependent, etc...) and if you are trying to lower the amount taken out of your check as you are always giving the money to the government to hold for you for the year then what is unethical about it if he is over paying anyway? He probably has a 401k and several other vehicles (rising property taxes, stock market losses, etc...) that allows him to take more withholding allowances and so forth. If you are in contact with your accountant and have a good estimate of how your taxes are going to work out at year end then taking more allowances would be a good strategy. Also if you pay your taxes at the end of the year even if you end up owing then there is still no harm/no foul as far as my understanding of this goes. The only caveat to all of this is with each withholding allowance that you claim you should have a good reason or explanation for that withholding allowance for when/if you are audited.

I have a good explanation: I payed $36,000 in mortgage interest this year.

That would definitely qualify as a good explanation. Since each withholding allowance accounts for $3400 then that one alone puts you up at 10 before anything else.

HI54UNI wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote: I have a good explanation: I payed $36,000 in mortgage interest this year.

Holy Shit!

You're tellin' me....and my wife wonders why we never have any money.

AZGrizFan wrote:

HI54UNI wrote: Holy Shit!

You're tellin' me....and my wife wonders why we never have any money.

The more you make the more you spend. Just be thankful you're screwing the government by not paying any taxes!

HI54UNI wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote: You're tellin' me....and my wife wonders why we never have any money.

The more you make the more you spend. Just be thankful you're screwing the government by not paying any taxes!

Oh, I PAY taxes. I just pay IN more than I should, so I end up getting some of it back every year.

It is always interesting to me that there are some ham & egger's that don't really understand the amount of taxes that are paid in by those in the higher tax brackets. I know a feller that was making 16,000/month from a company that he built himself from the ground up. His take home pay after taxes each month was about 1/2 of that. In my eyes people that are forced to pay these kind of astronomical amounts of their income to the government to cover the asses of those of us in the lower tax brackets should be recognized for their efforts due to the fact that they are using no more of the resources that these taxes provide, and in most cases using much less of the resources than those in the lower tax brackets. Many people talk about the rich paying more of their fair share when in reality the masses of us are living a better life with more comfort than we would enjoy if we were only receiving the benefits of what we had contributed to the country's financial well being. Those of us that are in the bottom 50% of wage earners ought to be kissing the asses of those that are in the top 50% of wage earners. The top 50% pays 96% of the taxes in this country while the bottom 50% picks up the tab for the remaining 4%. I wonder why the rich guys are always bitching about the amount of taxes that they have to pay?

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:It is always interesting to me that there are some ham & egger's that don't really understand the amount of taxes that are paid in by those in the higher tax brackets. I know a feller that was making 16,000/month from a company that he built himself from the ground up. His take home pay after taxes each month was about 1/2 of that. In my eyes people that are forced to pay these kind of astronomical amounts of their income to the government to cover the asses of those of us in the lower tax brackets should be recognized for their efforts due to the fact that they are using no more of the resources that these taxes provide, and in most cases using much less of the resources than those in the lower tax brackets. Many people talk about the rich paying more of their fair share when in reality the masses of us are living a better life with more comfort than we would enjoy if we were only receiving the benefits of what we had contributed to the country's financial well being. Those of us that are in the bottom 50% of wage earners ought to be kissing the asses of those that are in the top 50% of wage earners. The top 50% pays 96% of the taxes in this country while the bottom 50% picks up the tab for the remaining 4%. I wonder why the rich guys are always bitching about the amount of taxes that they have to pay?

You're welcome.

I have $50,000 a year come out of my pay for various taxes....Fed, State, Soc Sec, Medicare.....and that's AFTER I've contributed to my 401k. Over half of that (Soc & Medicare) I won't see for years. And the bulk of the rest I get back a small refund on....we need better stewards of our money....

Exactly my point. You are paying more into the general fund of America's well being than most that question your strategy for trying to keep some of the money that is pilfered from you. You should probably be ridiculed for doing so.

I really don't care what the tax rate is...I care that my tax dollars are used wisely...

That's where I'm angry...I know there is waste galore...and in some cases outright fraud...

I'll continue to gladly pay my taxes, I just want more controls...yet I see those controls being reduced, not increased...

And the reason for that is simple...tighter controls = more efficient use of tax dollars...More efficient use of tax dollars = lower costs for more services...lower costs for more services = less need for taxes (a cut in tax rates)...

Without the improved efficiency, the only things bureaucrats know is asking for more money...

Col Hogan wrote:I really don't care what the tax rate is...I care that my tax dollars are used wisely...

That's where I'm angry...I know there is waste galore...and in some cases outright fraud...

I'll continue to gladly pay my taxes, I just want more controls...yet I see those controls being reduced, not increased...

And the reason for that is simple...tighter controls = more efficient use of tax dollars...More efficient use of tax dollars = lower costs for more services...lower costs for more services = less need for taxes (a cut in tax rates)...

Without the improved efficiency, the only things bureaucrats know is asking for more money...

BINGO!!! We have a winner!

Col Hogan wrote:I really don't care what the tax rate is...I care that my tax dollars are used wisely...

That's where I'm angry...I know there is waste galore...and in some cases outright fraud...

I'll continue to gladly pay my taxes, I just want more controls...yet I see those controls being reduced, not increased...

And the reason for that is simple...tighter controls = more efficient use of tax dollars...More efficient use of tax dollars = lower costs for more services...lower costs for more services = less need for taxes (a cut in tax rates)...

Without the improved efficiency, the only things bureaucrats know is asking for more money...

Following your logic, then you DO care what your tax rate is....

AZGrizFan wrote:

Col Hogan wrote:I really don't care what the tax rate is...I care that my tax dollars are used wisely...

That's where I'm angry...I know there is waste galore...and in some cases outright fraud...

I'll continue to gladly pay my taxes, I just want more controls...yet I see those controls being reduced, not increased...

And the reason for that is simple...tighter controls = more efficient use of tax dollars...More efficient use of tax dollars = lower costs for more services...lower costs for more services = less need for taxes (a cut in tax rates)...

Without the improved efficiency, the only things bureaucrats know is asking for more money...

Following your logic, then you DO care what your tax rate is....

You're kinda correct...

I'd agree to pay more for a short period of time to get our rampant waste under control (you have to spend money to make money)...if...IF...there was some plan with assurances of reduced taxes in the end...

Now, I know bureacrats don't know how to reduce budgets and gain efficiencies...that's why we would have to pay to bring in experts to get this mess under control...

Government unions and special interest lobbiests would fight tooth and nail against it...

But, I'm feeling optimistic today...IT CAN BE DONE...

Question is, will either of our political parties and our future president have the stomach for it......I doubt it..... (pessimism sets in.......)

AZGrizFan wrote:

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:On the W4 you are not claiming dependents you are claiming the number of withholding allowances you want to take (head of household, dependent, etc...) and if you are trying to lower the amount taken out of your check as you are always giving the money to the government to hold for you for the year then what is unethical about it if he is over paying anyway? He probably has a 401k and several other vehicles (rising property taxes, stock market losses, etc...) that allows him to take more withholding allowances and so forth. If you are in contact with your accountant and have a good estimate of how your taxes are going to work out at year end then taking more allowances would be a good strategy. Also if you pay your taxes at the end of the year even if you end up owing then there is still no harm/no foul as far as my understanding of this goes. The only caveat to all of this is with each withholding allowance that you claim you should have a good reason or explanation for that withholding allowance for when/if you are audited.

I have a good explanation: I payed $36,000 in mortgage interest this year.

I'd say that's justification enough. Egad!