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Get pregnant on Active Duty - face Court Martial
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:04 am
by danefan
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldne ... ctive.html
Under the new policy, troops expecting a baby face court martial and a possible prison term – and so do the men who made them pregnant.
And the rule applies to married couples at war together, who are expected to make sure their love lives do not interfere with duty.
Usual US Army policy is to send pregnant soldiers home from combat zones within 14 days.
But Major General Anthony Cucolo, who runs US operations in northern Iraq, issued the new orders because he said he was losing too many women with critical skills.
He needed the threat of court martial and jail time as an extra deterrent, he said.
All troops under his command are covered by the extension to the military’s legal code – the first time the US Army has made pregnancy a punishable offence
'I've got a mission to do, I'm given a finite number of soldiers with which to do it and I need every one of them,' Maj Gen Cucolo said.
'So I'm going to take every measure I can to keep them all strong, fit and with me for the twelve months we are in the combat zone.'
Married soldiers on active service should either put their love lives on hold or take precautions. It was a 'black and white' issue, he said.
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Re: Get pregnant on Active Duty - face Court Marshall
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:13 am
by Col Hogan
And......
Re: Get pregnant on Active Duty - face Court Marshall
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:25 am
by danefan
Col Hogan wrote:And......
Don't you think its a little overboard to threaten jail time for getting pregnant?
I understand the reasoning, but i think its a little drastic.
Re: Get pregnant on Active Duty - face Court Marshall
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:33 am
by dbackjon
Sounds reasonable. Don't like it don't join.
Re: Get pregnant on Active Duty - face Court Marshall
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:39 am
by kalm
This would be less of a problem if gays were openly allowed in the military.
Re: Get pregnant on Active Duty - face Court Marshall
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:41 am
by Pwns
But...it's not their fault and you can't legislate biology. It is clearly the US military's fault for not making condoms and other forms of birth control available at every base and every fox hole the world over.
Re: Get pregnant on Active Duty - face Court Marshall
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:46 am
by danefan
Maybe women just shouldn't be deployed? Plenty of jobs at home that wouldn't be greatly diminished by a woman's maternity leave?
Its just really really hard to apply this rule, IMO. Do you really put someone in jail for having sex with their significant other on leave?
Its really hard to differentiate between the woman who has an unplanned pregnany from the one who gets pregnant on purpose to go home.
Re: Get pregnant on Active Duty - face Court Marshall
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:50 am
by JMU DJ
danefan wrote:
Its just really really hard to apply this rule, IMO. Do you really put someone in jail for having sex with their significant other on leave?
Legit question, if you do something unbecoming of a soldier on leave (drug use, arrested for something or other, etc), can you still be punished? Don't you sign some sort of contract when you enter the armed services?
Re: Get pregnant on Active Duty - face Court Marshall
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:57 am
by danefan
JMU DJ wrote:danefan wrote:
Its just really really hard to apply this rule, IMO. Do you really put someone in jail for having sex with their significant other on leave?
Legit question, if you do something unbecoming of a soldier on leave (drug use, arrested for something or other, etc), can you still be punished? Don't you sign some sort of contract when you enter the armed services?
Yes, absolutely. You are expected to adhere to the same standard when you are on leave.
However, does this mean that the Army is now considering marital relations of the kind worthy of punishment like criminal actions? My understanding of this rule is that it is a rule put in "on the fly" because the Commanding Officer was worried about losing too many soldiers to pregnancy.
Example: If a solider on leave gets into a car accident and breaks his leg. Does he go to jail because he can no longer serve?
Its a valid analogy here. There are a lot of unplanned pregnancies. How far can a rule like this extend? Should the Army be able to tell soldiers that they can't travel in cars on leave?
Am I crazy here?
Re: Get pregnant on Active Duty - face Court Marshall
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:23 am
by Col Hogan
General Order # 1 (really) in Iraq for U.S. forces is....NO ALCOHOL...
It's a court martial offense to possess or consume alcohol...
Under this General Order, it's a court martial offense to get pregnant while assigned in the AOR (Central Command/Iraq)...
The court martial is not for getting pregnant...it's for disobeying a direct order...
There are several ways to avoid this...including one aspirin placed between the knees...
DON'T GET PREGNANT...DON'T GET A WOMAN PREGNANT...
Easy.....so what's the question...
Re: Get pregnant on Active Duty - face Court Marshall
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:25 am
by Col Hogan
danefan wrote:JMU DJ wrote:
Legit question, if you do something unbecoming of a soldier on leave (drug use, arrested for something or other, etc), can you still be punished? Don't you sign some sort of contract when you enter the armed services?
Yes, absolutely. You are expected to adhere to the same standard when you are on leave.
However, does this mean that the Army is now considering marital relations of the kind worthy of punishment like criminal actions? My understanding of this rule is that it is a rule put in "on the fly" because the Commanding Officer was worried about losing too many soldiers to pregnancy.
Example: If a solider on leave gets into a car accident and breaks his leg. Does he go to jail because he can no longer serve?
Its a valid analogy here. There are a lot of unplanned pregnancies. How far can a rule like this extend? Should the Army be able to tell soldiers that they can't travel in cars on leave?
Am I crazy here?
You are not crazy...you're thinking like a civilian...
Nothing wrong with that...just don't try to apply your rules to the military...they have theirs...
Re: Get pregnant on Active Duty - face Court Marshall
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:41 am
by Skjellyfetti
Col Hogan wrote:
Nothing wrong with that...just don't try to apply your rules to the military...they have theirs...
Exactly what I argued in another thread on the SEALS charged with abuse. Getting pregnant = serious offense. Beating up detainee = not serious? Getting pregnant... rules must strictly be followed! Beating up detainee... eh, rule is probably too strict and it's a warzone!... they should be given a pass.
Re: Get pregnant on Active Duty - face Court Marshall
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:56 am
by mainejeff
Women belong at home.......pumping out their deployed hubby's babies.
Re: Get pregnant on Active Duty - face Court Marshall
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:10 pm
by Col Hogan
Skjellyfetti wrote:Col Hogan wrote:
Nothing wrong with that...just don't try to apply your rules to the military...they have theirs...
Exactly what I argued in another thread on the SEALS charged with abuse. Getting pregnant = serious offense. Beating up detainee = not serious? Getting pregnant... rules must strictly be followed! Beating up detainee... eh, rule is probably too strict and it's a warzone!... they should be given a pass.
Re: Get pregnant on Active Duty - face Court Marshall
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:26 pm
by catamount man
maybe if our nation weren't so balls on about policing the rest of the world and we brought all of our troops back home, we wouldn't have to worry about a petty military rule put in order by some wanna be Rambo. Not to mention how much we could trim off of the deficit, but then again, it all makes too much sense for the pundits in Washington.
Re: Get pregnant on Active Duty - face Court Marshall
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:19 pm
by Col Hogan
catamount man wrote:maybe if our nation weren't so balls on about policing the rest of the world and we brought all of our troops back home, we wouldn't have to worry about a petty military rule put in order by some wanna be Rambo. Not to mention how much we could trim off of the deficit, but then again, it all makes too much sense for the pundits in Washington.
It must be nice to view the world through rose colored glasses...
Re: Get pregnant on Active Duty - face Court Marshall
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:12 pm
by SuperHornet
This can't be pregnant on "active duty." It sounds more specifically like pregnant in a "war zone." Anyone pregnant prior to deployment would be automatically screened out of deployable status for a period of time during and after the pregnancy. Therefore, the only folk getting court-martialed on this will be those fooling around OVER THERE. Besides, a theater commander has authority ONLY within his theater. That's the only way this could be enforceable. There's no way that a soldier at Fort Irwin, not currently deployed to this particular general's baliwick, is going to be held responsible for getting pregnant IN GARRISON.
Some of you folk are over-reacting. This is a perfectly sensible order, if a bit extreme, and it's fair because it recognizes that "it takes two to tango."
Re: Get pregnant on Active Duty - face Court Marshall
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:53 pm
by danefan
SuperHornet wrote:This can't be pregnant on "active duty." It sounds more specifically like pregnant in a "war zone." Anyone pregnant prior to deployment would be automatically screened out of deployable status for a period of time during and after the pregnancy. Therefore, the only folk getting court-martialed on this will be those fooling around OVER THERE. Besides, a theater commander has authority ONLY within his theater. That's the only way this could be enforceable. There's no way that a soldier at Fort Irwin, not currently deployed to this particular general's baliwick, is going to be held responsible for getting pregnant IN GARRISON.
Some of you folk are over-reacting. This is a perfectly sensible order, if a bit extreme, and it's fair because it recognizes that "it takes two to tango."
I only really question it as "extreme" when it happens by "accident" at home during leave. Its pretty natural to expect a wife to enjoy the company of their husband during leave.
Re: Get pregnant on Active Duty - face Court Marshall
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:32 pm
by GrizFanStuckInUtah
Not sure what the fuss is about on this one myself. They aren't going to get anyone in trouble for this when they aren't deployed and I can understand the need to keep the unit together while they are deployed. No excuse for getting knocked up or knocking up while deployed. I know when I deployed we never saw women except at port nor did we have any time to do anything with one if we had seen one anywhere else.
Re: Get pregnant on Active Duty - face Court Marshall
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:41 pm
by JayJ79
danefan wrote:I only really question it as "extreme" when it happens by "accident" at home during leave. Its pretty natural to expect a wife to enjoy the company of their husband during leave.
If "by accident", you mean that the woman was on birth control and/or the man wore a condom, and it still resulted in a pregnancy, then I agree. But if those conditions aren't met, then it isn't an accident, it is faulty planning.
Re: Get pregnant on Active Duty - face Court Marshall
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:49 pm
by danefan
JayJ79 wrote:danefan wrote:I only really question it as "extreme" when it happens by "accident" at home during leave. Its pretty natural to expect a wife to enjoy the company of their husband during leave.
If "by accident", you mean that the woman was on birth control and/or the man wore a condom, and it still resulted in a pregnancy, then I agree. But if those conditions aren't met, then it isn't an accident, it is faulty planning.
Agreed 100%. That's why I say that in practice this is almost impossible to enforce justly.
That's my whole issue with it.
But maybe, like Col says though, its just my civilian POV which is creating the issue.
Re: Get pregnant on Active Duty - face Court Marshall
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:41 pm
by CID1990
You get in trouble for getting pregnant while on deployment for the same reason you get in trouble for getting a sunburn bad enough to keep you from doing your duty. The military has to be able to count on all of its deployable servicemembers remaining deployable, outside of acts of God and accidents.
Getting pregnant while deployed is poor judgment at best and malingering at worst.
BTW- smacking a terrorist in the chops is against the rules, but it does not affect readiness, and there is a big difference. Trying to draw parallels is civilian thinking.
Re: Get pregnant on Active Duty - face Court Marshall
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:43 pm
by CID1990
OH AND BY THE WAY...
Marshall is a college in West Virginia.
Martial is a word that pertains to things military, like "martial music" or Court Martial (the plural of which is Courts Martial.)
Here endeth the lesson.
Re: Get pregnant on Active Duty - face Court Marshall
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:50 pm
by danefan
Re: Get pregnant on Active Duty - face Court Martial
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:33 pm
by Purple For Life
Just curious--there HAVE been reports of women raped while on active duty. What then?
