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Americans’ Role Seen in Uganda Anti-Gay Push
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:44 pm
by dbackjon
Last March, three American evangelical Christians, whose teachings about “curing” homosexuals have been widely discredited in the United States, arrived here in Uganda’s capital to give a series of talks.
The theme of the event, according to Stephen Langa, its Ugandan organizer, was “the gay agenda — that whole hidden and dark agenda” — and the threat homosexuals posed to Bible-based values and the traditional African family.
For three days, according to participants and audio recordings, thousands of Ugandans, including police officers, teachers and national politicians, listened raptly to the Americans, who were presented as experts on homosexuality. The visitors discussed how to make gay people straight, how gay men often sodomized teenage boys and how “the gay movement is an evil institution” whose goal is “to defeat the marriage-based society and replace it with a culture of sexual promiscuity.”
Now the three Americans are finding themselves on the defensive, saying they had no intention of helping stoke the kind of anger that could lead to what came next: a bill to impose a death sentence for homosexual behavior.
One month after the conference, a previously unknown Ugandan politician, who boasts of having evangelical friends in the American government, introduced the Anti-Homosexuality Bill of 2009, which threatens to hang homosexuals, and, as a result, has put Uganda on a collision course with Western nations.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/04/world ... wt=nytimes
Re: Americans’ Role Seen in Uganda Anti-Gay Push
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:46 pm
by Ivytalk
How many threads is this topic worth?
Re: Americans’ Role Seen in Uganda Anti-Gay Push
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:48 pm
by dbackjon
The three Americans who spoke at the conference — Scott Lively, a missionary who has written several books against homosexuality, including “7 Steps to Recruit-Proof Your Child”; Caleb Lee Brundidge, a self-described former gay man who leads “healing seminars”; and Don Schmierer, a board member of Exodus International, whose mission is “mobilizing the body of Christ to minister grace and truth to a world impacted by homosexuality” — are now trying to distance themselves from the bill.
Uganda is an exceptionally lush, mostly rural country where conservative Christian groups wield enormous influence. This is, after all, the land of proposed virginity scholarships, songs about Jesus playing in the airport, “Uganda is Blessed” bumper stickers on Parliament office doors and a suggestion by the president’s wife that a virginity census could be a way to fight AIDS.
During the Bush administration, American officials praised Uganda’s family-values policies and steered millions of dollars into abstinence programs.
Uganda has also become a magnet for American evangelical groups. Some of the best known Christian personalities have recently passed through here, often bringing with them anti-homosexuality messages, including the Rev. Rick Warren, who visited in 2008 and has compared homosexuality to pedophilia. (Mr. Warren recently condemned the anti-homosexuality bill, seeking to correct what he called “lies and errors and false reports” that he played a role in it.)
Re: Americans’ Role Seen in Uganda Anti-Gay Push
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:51 pm
by dbackjon
Ivytalk wrote:How many threads is this topic worth?
For those that keep missing the connection
Re: Americans’ Role Seen in Uganda Anti-Gay Push
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:53 pm
by Grizalltheway
dbackjon wrote:Ivytalk wrote:How many threads is this topic worth?
For those that keep denying the connection
Fixed. They're perfectly aware of it.
Re: Americans’ Role Seen in Uganda Anti-Gay Push
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:15 pm
by Ivytalk
Grizalltheway wrote:dbackjon wrote:
For those that keep denying the connection
Fixed. They're perfectly aware of it.
Who's "they," Young Streetwalker? Hosepipe, you are!
Re: Americans’ Role Seen in Uganda Anti-Gay Push
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:07 pm
by Grizalltheway
Ivytalk wrote:Grizalltheway wrote:
Fixed. They're perfectly aware of it.
Who's "they," Young Streetwalker? Hosepipe, you are!
Take a wild guess.
Re: Americans’ Role Seen in Uganda Anti-Gay Push
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:12 pm
by D1B
Ivytalk wrote:How many threads is this topic worth?
I for one find them informative. Keep em coming Dback
Re: Americans’ Role Seen in Uganda Anti-Gay Push
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:00 pm
by CID1990
The only meaningful lesson I derive from these infomative missives is that Dback and the rest of the homos should stay away from Uganda, and remain here with those of us who love them and their talents at drapery selection.
Re: Americans’ Role Seen in Uganda Anti-Gay Push
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:05 pm
by kalm
CID1990 wrote:The only meaningful lesson I derive from these infomative missives is that Dback and the rest of the homos should stay away from Uganda, and remain here with those of us who love them and their talents at drapery selection.
Or civil liberty hating smucks like Rick Warren and Tom Coburn unable to come to grips with their own irrational fears and/or latent homosexuality should move to Kampala.
Re: Americans’ Role Seen in Uganda Anti-Gay Push
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:11 pm
by Chizzang
CID1990 wrote:The only meaningful lesson I derive from these infomative missives is that Dback and the rest of the homos should stay away from Uganda, and remain here with those of us who love them and their talents at drapery selection.
Don't forget paint colors...
I needed to paint my place and a fabulously gay "color coordinator" assisted me in some tough decision regarding my "personal space" - seriously though, the dude was awesome and very helpful... he asked me a whole series of questions which I thought had nothing to do with paint but he ended up picking out three great colors for me and man - I gotta agree - the place looks amazing now...
Re: Americans’ Role Seen in Uganda Anti-Gay Push
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:19 pm
by CID1990
Chizzang wrote:CID1990 wrote:The only meaningful lesson I derive from these infomative missives is that Dback and the rest of the homos should stay away from Uganda, and remain here with those of us who love them and their talents at drapery selection.
Don't forget paint colors...
I needed to paint my place and a fabulously gay "color coordinator" assisted me in some tough decision regarding my "personal space" - seriously though, the dude was awesome and very helpful... he asked me a whole series of questions which I thought had nothing to do with paint but he ended up picking out three great colors for me and man - I gotta agree - the place looks amazing now...
What were the questions?
Like, "Who do you like more, Judy Garland or Kirk Douglas?" questions?
Re: Americans’ Role Seen in Uganda Anti-Gay Push
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:21 pm
by JoltinJoe
Grizalltheway wrote:dbackjon wrote:
For those that keep denying the connection
Fixed. They're perfectly aware of it.
Who here has denied the connection??
Re: Americans’ Role Seen in Uganda Anti-Gay Push
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:29 pm
by Chizzang
CID1990 wrote:Chizzang wrote:
Don't forget paint colors...
I needed to paint my place and a fabulously gay "color coordinator" assisted me in some tough decision regarding my "personal space" - seriously though, the dude was awesome and very helpful... he asked me a whole series of questions which I thought had nothing to do with paint but he ended up picking out three great colors for me and man - I gotta agree - the place looks amazing now...
What were the questions?
Like, "Who do you like more, Judy Garland or Kirk Douglas?" questions?
Well,
questions about my personality and what kind of lighting I had in my house... questions about seasons and stuff about my art work in my house and what artists I liked - stuff about the furniture I had and where I purchased it and the fabrics and stuff...
very professional - very good experience... colors I would have NEVER considered painting on my walls but I'm completely happy with the "space" - the dude is a professional..!!!
Re: Americans’ Role Seen in Uganda Anti-Gay Push
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:29 pm
by Grizalltheway
JoltinJoe wrote:Grizalltheway wrote:
Fixed. They're perfectly aware of it.
Who here has denied the connection??
Not flat-out denying the connection per se, but implying that a few American preachers couldn't possibly have a large effect on the country.
exit lawyer
Re: Americans’ Role Seen in Uganda Anti-Gay Push
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:34 pm
by JoltinJoe
Grizalltheway wrote:JoltinJoe wrote:
Who here has denied the connection??
Not flat-out denying the connection per se, but implying that a few American preachers couldn't possibly have a large effect on the country.
exit lawyer
It's a combination of factors, but the US Evagenicals have certainly stoked this fire.
Fortunately, Uganda is 40% Catholic, and growing, and the Vatican's opposition to the bill, recently formally articulated to the United Nations, will hopefully embolden opposition in Uganda, especially among the Catholic clergy.
Also, a very prominent Anglican bishop recently spoke out against this bill, so moderate Christians are lining up, it seems, against this bill.
Re: Americans’ Role Seen in Uganda Anti-Gay Push
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:39 pm
by kalm
JoltinJoe wrote:Grizalltheway wrote:
Not flat-out denying the connection per se, but implying that a few American preachers couldn't possibly have a large effect on the country.
exit lawyer
It's a combination of factors, but the US Evagenicals have certainly stoked this fire.
Fortunately, Uganda is 40% Catholic, and growing, and the Vatican's opposition to the bill, recently formally articulated to the United Nations, will hopefully embolden opposition in Uganda, especially among the Catholic clergy.
Also, a very prominent Anglican bishop recently spoke out against this bill, so moderate Christians are lining up, it seems, against this bill.
Good for them, that's a very positive thing.
Moderate Repbulicans need to start pushing back in the same fashion.
Re: Americans’ Role Seen in Uganda Anti-Gay Push
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:43 pm
by dbackjon
Good to hear Joe. So are the Ugandan Catholics against homosexuality being illegal as well?
Re: Americans’ Role Seen in Uganda Anti-Gay Push
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:49 pm
by JoltinJoe
dbackjon wrote:Good to hear Joe. So are the Ugandan Catholics against homosexuality being illegal as well?
I don't know. There is a history of anti-gay bias in Uganda and Africa as a whole.
But plainly the Vatican statement, issued on Human Rights Day, condemned cruel and unusual punishment of homosexuality, including use of the death penalty, torture, and imprisonment; criticized laws discriminating against homosexuals as violative of human rights; and was timed to give guidance to the Uganda clergy and Catholic laity in the country.
Re: Americans’ Role Seen in Uganda Anti-Gay Push
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:00 pm
by JohnStOnge
Rick Warren, who visited in 2008 and has compared homosexuality to pedophilia. (Mr. Warren recently condemned the anti-homosexuality bill, seeking to correct what he called “lies and errors and false reports” that he played a role in it.)
Well, I don't know what Pastor Warren's take was but there are valid comparisons. From the standpoint of misdirection of sexual orientation, pedophilia is no more misdirected than homosexuality is. There is one normal basic sexual orientation. Yes, I know that we like to obscure that by making up various scales, etc. But one either had a preference for sexual contact with members of the opposite sex, a preference for sexual contact with members of one's own sex, or complete neutrality. Complete neutrality is rare. The normal condition among those three is preference for sexual contact with members of the opposite sex. And that's the orientation that is consistent with the biological function underlying sexuality.
Once you depart from that...from the drive to copulate with a member of the opposite sex...you're basically in the same realm. It is no more misdirected for an adult male to be primarily attracted to six year old females than it is for him to be attracted to other adult males. In fact it's probably less so because at least the attraction to six year old females is kind of related to the underlying basis.
A normal, healthy sex drive is going to be primarily directed at members of one's own species but of the opposite sex. Once you depart from that it's all the same. If an adult male human is attracted to a female chicken that is no more misdirected than an adult male human being attracted to another adult male human. Every bit as pointless when it comes to what the whole point of the sex drive is.
Re: Americans’ Role Seen in Uganda Anti-Gay Push
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:02 pm
by D1B
JoltinJoe wrote:dbackjon wrote:Good to hear Joe. So are the Ugandan Catholics against homosexuality being illegal as well?
I don't know. There is a history of anti-gay bias in Uganda and Africa as a whole.
But plainly the Vatican statement, issued on Human Rights Day, condemned cruel and unusual punishment of homosexuality, including use of the death penalty, torture, and imprisonment; criticized laws discriminating against homosexuals as violative of human rights; and was timed to give guidance to the Uganda clergy and Catholic laity in the country.
Catholics are wonderful crusaders for gay people.
Re: Americans’ Role Seen in Uganda Anti-Gay Push
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:11 pm
by D1B
JoltinJoe wrote:dbackjon wrote:Good to hear Joe. So are the Ugandan Catholics against homosexuality being illegal as well?
I don't know
(In "Jolt-speak = NO) . There is a history of anti-gay bias in Uganda and Africa as a whole
(Classic Jolt-Speak denial, catholic never do anything wrong, It's always someone else).
But plainly the Vatican statement, issued on Human Rights Day, condemned cruel and unusual punishment of homosexuality, including use of the death penalty, torture, and imprisonment; criticized laws discriminating against homosexuals as violative of human rights; and was timed to give guidance to the Uganda clergy and Catholic laity in the country.
Re: Americans’ Role Seen in Uganda Anti-Gay Push
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:12 pm
by kalm
JohnStOnge wrote:Rick Warren, who visited in 2008 and has compared homosexuality to pedophilia. (Mr. Warren recently condemned the anti-homosexuality bill, seeking to correct what he called “lies and errors and false reports” that he played a role in it.)
Well, I don't know what Pastor Warren's take was but there are valid comparisons. From the standpoint of misdirection of sexual orientation, pedophilia is no more misdirected than homosexuality is. There is one normal basic sexual orientation. Yes, I know that we like to obscure that by making up various scales, etc. But one either had a preference for sexual contact with members of the opposite sex, a preference for sexual contact with members of one's own sex, or complete neutrality. Complete neutrality is rare. The normal condition among those three is preference for sexual contact with members of the opposite sex. And that's the orientation that is consistent with the biological function underlying sexuality.
Once you depart from that...from the drive to copulate with a member of the opposite sex...you're basically in the same realm. It is no more misdirected for an adult male to be primarily attracted to six year old females than it is for him to be attracted to other adult males. In fact it's probably less so because at least the attraction to six year old females is kind of related to the underlying basis.
A normal, healthy sex drive is going to be primarily directed at members of one's own species but of the opposite sex. Once you depart from that it's all the same. If an adult male human is attracted to a female chicken that is no more misdirected than an adult male human being attracted to another adult male human. Every bit as pointless when it comes to what the whole point of the sex drive is.
Regardless, any reasonable person will agree that sex with a six year old is wrong while sex with a consenting adult of the same sex is a right of the two consenting adults.
What about the drive to copulate with members of your own body?
Re: Americans’ Role Seen in Uganda Anti-Gay Push
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:13 pm
by D1B
JohnStOnge wrote:Rick Warren, who visited in 2008 and has compared homosexuality to pedophilia. (Mr. Warren recently condemned the anti-homosexuality bill, seeking to correct what he called “lies and errors and false reports” that he played a role in it.)
Well, I don't know what Pastor Warren's take was but there are valid comparisons. From the standpoint of misdirection of sexual orientation, pedophilia is no more misdirected than homosexuality is. There is one normal basic sexual orientation. Yes, I know that we like to obscure that by making up various scales, etc. But one either had a preference for sexual contact with members of the opposite sex, a preference for sexual contact with members of one's own sex, or complete neutrality. Complete neutrality is rare. The normal condition among those three is preference for sexual contact with members of the opposite sex. And that's the orientation that is consistent with the biological function underlying sexuality.
Once you depart from that...from the drive to copulate with a member of the opposite sex...you're basically in the same realm. It is no more misdirected for an adult male to be primarily attracted to six year old females than it is for him to be attracted to other adult males. In fact it's probably less so because at least the attraction to six year old females is kind of related to the underlying basis.
A normal, healthy sex drive is going to be primarily directed at members of one's own species but of the opposite sex. Once you depart from that it's all the same. If an adult male human is attracted to a female chicken that is no more misdirected than an adult male human being attracted to another adult male human. Every bit as pointless when it comes to what the whole point of the sex drive is.
You sure about complete neutrality? What about Texas Terror?
Re: Americans’ Role Seen in Uganda Anti-Gay Push
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:20 pm
by D1B
kalm wrote:JohnStOnge wrote:
Well, I don't know what Pastor Warren's take was but there are valid comparisons. From the standpoint of misdirection of sexual orientation, pedophilia is no more misdirected than homosexuality is. There is one normal basic sexual orientation. Yes, I know that we like to obscure that by making up various scales, etc. But one either had a preference for sexual contact with members of the opposite sex, a preference for sexual contact with members of one's own sex, or complete neutrality. Complete neutrality is rare. The normal condition among those three is preference for sexual contact with members of the opposite sex. And that's the orientation that is consistent with the biological function underlying sexuality.
Once you depart from that...from the drive to copulate with a member of the opposite sex...you're basically in the same realm. It is no more misdirected for an adult male to be primarily attracted to six year old females than it is for him to be attracted to other adult males. In fact it's probably less so because at least the attraction to six year old females is kind of related to the underlying basis.
A normal, healthy sex drive is going to be primarily directed at members of one's own species but of the opposite sex. Once you depart from that it's all the same. If an adult male human is attracted to a female chicken that is no more misdirected than an adult male human being attracted to another adult male human. Every bit as pointless when it comes to what the whole point of the sex drive is.
Regardless, any reasonable person will agree that sex with a six year old is wrong while sex with a consenting adult of the same sex is a right of the two consenting adults.
What about the drive to copulate with members of your own body?
I ain't officially gay, but sex with another man is much less "misdirected" than sex with a chicken.