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You cannot help the poor
by destroying the rich.
You cannot strengthen the weak
by weakening the strong.
You cannot bring about prosperity
by discouraging thrift.
You cannot lift the wage earner up
by pulling the wage payer down.
You cannot further the brotherhood of man
by inciting class hatred.
You cannot build character and courage
by taking away people's initiative and independence.
You cannot help people permanently by doing for them
what they could and should do for themselves.

Grizo

AZGrizFan wrote:You cannot help the poor
by destroying the rich.
You cannot strengthen the weak
by weakening the strong.
You cannot bring about prosperity
by discouraging thrift.
You cannot lift the wage earner up
by pulling the wage payer down.
You cannot further the brotherhood of man
by inciting class hatred.
You cannot build character and courage
by taking away people's initiative and independence.
You cannot help people permanently by doing for them
what they could and should do for themselves.

Bill Brasky


I don't know. I'm gonna guess Ben Franklin.

I got one similar


“You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation on. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.”

Seen it before Z. Not Lincoln.

JMU DJ wrote:Seen it before Z. Not Lincoln.

Well that's who it was attributed to where I saw it.

Doesn't really matter WHO, though. They are SPOT ON.

And yet we don't feel that way when it comes to global democracy..?
We keep thinking we can "give" Democracy to people who have no interest in it (usually by bombing the sh!t out of them)


Republicans:
So bright and so smart about fixing the poor in America
So thick and so slow about "Bombing for peace" and bayonet Democracy

AZGrizFan wrote:You cannot help the poor
by destroying the rich.
You cannot strengthen the weak
by weakening the strong.
You cannot bring about prosperity
by discouraging thrift.
You cannot lift the wage earner up
by pulling the wage payer down.
You cannot further the brotherhood of man
by inciting class hatred.
You cannot build character and courage
by taking away people's initiative and independence.
You cannot help people permanently by doing for them
what they could and should do for themselves.

Rev. William J. H. Boetcker.

1942.

Here's his Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._H._Boetcker

You cannot have a healthy democracy with consolidated weatlh

Chizzang wrote:And yet we don't feel that way when it comes to global democracy..?
We keep thinking we can "give" Democracy to people who have no interest in it (usually by bombing the sh!t out of them)


Republicans:
So bright and so smart about fixing the poor in America
So thick and so slow about "Bombing for peace" and bayonet Democracy

And you assume that because they've never experienced it they "have no interest in it?"

kalm wrote:You cannot have a healthy democracy with consolidated weatlh

I now! I know! Dennis Kucinich!

AZGrizFan wrote:

Chizzang wrote:And yet we don't feel that way when it comes to global democracy..?
We keep thinking we can "give" Democracy to people who have no interest in it (usually by bombing the sh!t out of them)


Republicans:
So bright and so smart about fixing the poor in America
So thick and so slow about "Bombing for peace" and bayonet Democracy

And you assume that because they've never experienced it they "have no interest in it?"

Even if they do, we can't afford to give it to them.

Ivytalk wrote:

kalm wrote:You cannot have a healthy democracy with consolidated weatlh

I now! I know! Dennis Kucinich!

Teddy Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt, Adam Smith, the founders...

Grizalltheway wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:
And you assume that because they've never experienced it they "have no interest in it?"

Even if they do, we can't afford to give it to them.

Totally different argument. And one that I agree with.

AZGrizFan wrote:

Chizzang wrote:And yet we don't feel that way when it comes to global democracy..?
We keep thinking we can "give" Democracy to people who have no interest in it (usually by bombing the sh!t out of them)


Republicans:
So bright and so smart about fixing the poor in America
So thick and so slow about "Bombing for peace" and bayonet Democracy

And you assume that because they've never experienced it they "have no interest in it?"

They must decide for themselves what form of government they want...
If they were interested in Democracy they'd have one

I've never drank a warm glass of camel urine but I'm pretty sure I don't want it
Democracy and Republics are ancient - They are not a secret

Your point is kinda stupid (sorry dumb question)

Chizzang wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:
And you assume that because they've never experienced it they "have no interest in it?"

They must decide for themselves what form of government they want...
If they were interested in Democracy they'd have one

I've never drank a warm glass of camel urine but I'm pretty sure I don't want it
Democracy and Republics are ancient - They are not a secret

Your point is kinda stupid (sorry dumb question)

Yeah. I can see it now....all the camel jockeys sitting around their campfires bitching and moaning about Hussein...."damn that Sadaam! If only he'd let us form a Democracy!".

Seriously. "They must decide for themselves???????" I'm sure all those under the thumb of dictatorships absolutely LOVE their government and would want no other.

YOUR point is stupid, pal.

AZGrizFan wrote:

Chizzang wrote:
They must decide for themselves what form of government they want...
If they were interested in Democracy they'd have one

I've never drank a warm glass of camel urine but I'm pretty sure I don't want it
Democracy and Republics are ancient - They are not a secret

Your point is kinda stupid (sorry dumb question)

Yeah. I can see it now....all the camel jockeys sitting around their campfires bitching and moaning about Hussein...."damn that Sadaam! If only he'd let us form a Democracy!".

Seriously. "They must decide for themselves???????" I'm sure all those under the thumb of dictatorships absolutely LOVE their government and would want no other.

YOUR point is stupid, pal.

Are you drunk..?
Senatus Populusque Romanus

All organized movements take time - if a people are organized they can over throw any government
The Roman Republic was overthrown..!!! Surely Iraq could muster a revolution if so cared

You're pretending to be naive or you don't read much history... THe single most powerful govenrment ever known to man at it's point in history - controlling a huge portion of the globe - was over thrown..!!!

Chizzang wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:
Yeah. I can see it now....all the camel jockeys sitting around their campfires bitching and moaning about Hussein...."damn that Sadaam! If only he'd let us form a Democracy!".

Seriously. "They must decide for themselves???????" I'm sure all those under the thumb of dictatorships absolutely LOVE their government and would want no other.

YOUR point is stupid, pal.

Are you drunk..?
Senatus Populusque Romanus

All organized movements take time - if a people are organized they can over throw any government
The Roman Republic was overthrown..!!! Surely Iraq could muster a revolution if so cared

You're pretending to be naive or you don't read much history... THe single most powerful govenrment ever known to man at it's point in history - controlling a huge portion of the globe - was over thrown..!!!

What....5,000 years ago?

AZGrizFan wrote:

Chizzang wrote:

Are you drunk..?
Senatus Populusque Romanus

All organized movements take time - if a people are organized they can over throw any government
The Roman Republic was overthrown..!!! Surely Iraq could muster a revolution if so cared

You're pretending to be naive or you don't read much history... THe single most powerful govenrment ever known to man at it's point in history - controlling a huge portion of the globe - was over thrown..!!!

What....5,000 years ago?

More evidence you don't read...
Governments of one form or another are "overthrown" multiple times every decade on this planet - there are examples almost annually in Central America and Africa

The idea that you're forwarding:
A) All governments are permanent
B) Revolutions don't happen
C) People are helpless
D) You don't read much world news

is all a little startling

I guess it wasn't Grizo

Holy fuck AZ, jizzbag is flat kicking the shit out of you on this one.

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:Holy fuck AZ, jizzbag is flat kicking the shit out of you on this one.

AZGF is a lot like D1B... neither concedes a lost argument
I've conceded defeat to Baldy & Blueballs & even You Ursus - I don't like it - but it happens

When you're beat you're beat... Checkmate was announced in this debate 10 moves ago, but AZGF thinks he can take his moves back and start over

Chizzang wrote:

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:Holy **** AZ, jizzbag is flat kicking the **** out of you on this one.

AZGF is a lot like D1B... neither concedes a lost argument
I've conceded defeat to Baldy & Blueballs & even You Ursus - I don't like it - but it happens

When you're beat you're beat... Checkmate was announced in this debate 10 moves ago, but AZGF thinks he can take his moves back and start over

Damn you, Cleets, I actually liked Friedel. You were probably more of a Bernie Bailyn type...

Chizzang wrote:

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:Holy fuck AZ, jizzbag is flat kicking the shit out of you on this one.

AZGF is a lot like D1B... neither concedes a lost argument
I've conceded defeat to Baldy & Blueballs & even You Ursus - I don't like it - but it happens

When you're beat you're beat... Checkmate was announced in this debate 10 moves ago, but AZGF thinks he can take his moves back and start over

And Clitorus is a lot like Douche 1 Bag in that he erroneously yet proudly claims "victory" in a meaningless debate without a shred of proof.

AZGrizFan wrote:

Chizzang wrote:
AZGF is a lot like D1B... neither concedes a lost argument
I've conceded defeat to Baldy & Blueballs & even You Ursus - I don't like it - but it happens

When you're beat you're beat... Checkmate was announced in this debate 10 moves ago, but AZGF thinks he can take his moves back and start over

And Clitorus is a lot like Douche 1 Bag in that he erroneously yet proudly claims "victory" in a meaningless debate without a shred of proof.

I'm the only one with proof in this debate...
10,000 years of world history has proven it over and over and over