Canada's Health Care System is the Best!

[Rob Iola]

Except when it's not:

You've heard the mantra, chanted by everyone on the left, from Michael Moore to The New York Times: America's profit-centric health-care system is dismally inferior to that of Canada's purely pristine humanitarian-driven version.
...
Well, tell that to Danny Williams, premier of the Canadian province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

The popular 59-year-old politician has discovered that nothing is for free. He's somewhere in the US today -- prepping for heart surgery.

Seems the procedure he needs simply isn't available in Newfoundland -- at any price.

And, with his own health on the line, he prefers to put his trust in the "second-rate, profit-driven health-care behemoth" south of the St. Lawrence, rather than try a hospital in Canada.

"Ultimately, we have to be the gatekeepers of our own health," said Williams' deputy premier, "and he has taken medical advice from a number of different sources,"

Williams, he added, "is doing what's best for him."

Precisely.

Last summer, President Obama -- who still hopes to overhaul American health-care -- defended the Canadian system as one that "works for Canada."

Not for all Canadians, apparently.

Certainly not those well-connected pols, who -- like Danny Williams -- can afford better health care in the good ol' US of A.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/ed ... VFz6y7fnuL

[catamount man]

Brock Lesnar was extremely critical of it as well. I still don't see why our government is afraid of letting workers invest in HSAs with their own income? I guess because they don't have the final say in it....

[93henfan]

Brock Lesnar was extremely critical of it as well. I still don't see why our government is afraid of letting workers invest in HSAs with their own income? I guess because they don't have the final say in it....

Huh? I can't speak for other folks' employers, but federal employees already have several HDHPs with HSAs to choose from:

http://www.opm.gov/insure/health/hsa/

[Col Hogan]

Brock Lesnar was extremely critical of it as well. I still don't see why our government is afraid of letting workers invest in HSAs with their own income? I guess because they don't have the final say in it....

Huh? I can't speak for other folks' employers, but federal employees already have several HDHPs with HSAs to choose from:

http://www.opm.gov/insure/health/hsa/

The two companies I have worked for since retiring from the military both have HSAs...good deals...

[93henfan]

Huh? I can't speak for other folks' employers, but federal employees already have several HDHPs with HSAs to choose from:

http://www.opm.gov/insure/health/hsa/

The two companies I have worked for since retiring from the military both have HSAs...good deals...

I can't use the HSA because I already contribute to a HCFSA (FSAFEDS).

For those swimming in acronym soup, here's help: http://www.opm.gov/insure/health/hsa/chart.asp

[catamount man]

To my knowledge, not every employer offers them but again, what do I know. I made the mistake of once again posting in the politics forum where I obviously do not belong seeing as how I know so little about these subjects. I will try not to make the same mistake again.

[Grizalltheway]

No healthcare system is going to be perfect, but it seems like Germany's is at least less dysfunctional than ours or Canada's

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_Germany

[UNI88]

To my knowledge, not every employer offers them but again, what do I know. I made the mistake of once again posting in the politics forum where I obviously do not belong seeing as how I know so little about these subjects. I will try not to make the same mistake again.

Lighten up CMan, you started a good thread, you don't have to have all of the answers.

I have an HSA and love it. My understanding is that an HSA is only available to people with High Deductible Health Plans. My family deductible is $5,000. You might think "wow, that's a lot of change for a deductible" but the reality is that under the old plan I was paying 30% of my dependent's premiums which along with the $1,500 family deductible was greater than $5,000. The switch to the high deductible plan dropped the cost of coverage enough that my employer was able to reduce the 30% and I actually spend less money in a year.

[Gil Dobie]

No healthcare system is going to be perfect, but it seems like Germany's is at least less dysfunctional than ours or Canada's

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_Germany

Do you mean more people are covered as meaning less dysfuntional? Canada provides more medocre care for more people. To get better healthcare for non-emergency medical procedure's, many Canadian's that can afford it come to the USA.

[Ibanez]

Brock Lesnar was extremely critical of it as well. I still don't see why our government is afraid of letting workers invest in HSAs with their own income? I guess because they don't have the final say in it....

My employer offers HSA. And we have 45,000+ employees.

[Skjellyfetti]

I doubt many would argue that America's healthcare system is among the best in the world for wealthy individuals.

But, it's also among the worst in the developed nations for the poor and lower incomes.

[Gil Dobie]

I doubt many would argue that America's healthcare system is among the best in the world for wealthy individuals.

But, it's also among the worst in the developed nations for the poor and lower incomes.

Most people would like all people to have healthcare, but not mediocre healthcare for all. If it was a great system proposed by the Congress, then Congress would have required it for them.

[Grizalltheway]

No healthcare system is going to be perfect, but it seems like Germany's is at least less dysfunctional than ours or Canada's

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_Germany

Do you mean more people are covered as meaning less dysfuntional? Canada provides more medocre care for more people. To get better healthcare for non-emergency medical procedure's, many Canadian's that can afford it come to the USA.

Far more people are covered by it, and although I never needed to use it while over there (thankfully) I really doubt it's 'mediocre'.

[death dealer]

Our HSA has a $6000 deductible. After the first $6K, it's 100% coverage on everything including pharmaceuticals. So basically, it's there to cover any big ticket items that might hit rarely. The premiums are a fourth of what they were on the traditional HMO plan we had before. My partner and I simply take $12K and put it in our HSA's every January. What doesn't get used, and so far it hasn't even come close, rolls over into the next year, accruing interst, and building. It's sort of a healthcare 401k. We've been doing it for 5 years now, and I've got a nice little nest egg building up. Granted, it can only be used for medical needs, but as I get older, I figure those are going to be necessary. Plus, "medical needs" is a suprisingly liberal definition.

[death dealer]

I doubt many would argue that America's healthcare system is among the best in the world for wealthy individuals.

But, it's also among the worst in the developed nations for the poor and lower incomes.

So?

And there is no heaven or hell. Jesus was a carpenter. He hammered nails and planks.

[kalm]

I doubt many would argue that America's healthcare system is among the best in the world for wealthy individuals.

But, it's also among the worst in the developed nations for the poor and lower incomes.

So?

And there is no heaven or hell. Jesus was a carpenter. He hammered nails and planks.

And it's really expensive for all income levels.

America...We're exceptional...for many people...especially the wealthy...or for those fortunate enough to have their employers cover healthcare expenses...and for those with the socialized VA and Medicare.

[death dealer]

So?

And there is no heaven or hell. Jesus was a carpenter. He hammered nails and planks.

And it's really expensive for all income levels.

America...We're exceptional...for many people...especially the wealthy...or for those fortunate enough to have their employers cover healthcare expenses...and for those with the socialized VA and Medicare.

Beats a poke in the eye with a stick.

[kalm]

And it's really expensive for all income levels.

America...We're exceptional...for many people...especially the wealthy...or for those fortunate enough to have their employers cover healthcare expenses...and for those with the socialized VA and Medicare.

Beats a poke in the eye with a stick.

Even better.

The American healthcare system...it beats a poke in the eye with a stick.

Gosh I'm proud.

[death dealer]

Beats a poke in the eye with a stick.

Even better.

The American healthcare system...it beats a poke in the eye with a stick.

Gosh I'm proud.

I'm glad you approve. Now let's go to press with it.

[Skjellyfetti]

Jesus was a carpenter. He hammered nails and planks.

And built houses, stores and banks. Chain smoked camel cigarettes. etc.

[UNI88]

So?

And there is no heaven or hell. Jesus was a carpenter. He hammered nails and planks.

And it's really expensive for all income levels.

America...We're exceptional...for many people...especially the wealthy...or for those fortunate enough to have their employers cover healthcare expenses...and for those with the socialized VA and Medicare.

First, so the wealthy, many employees, and people with VA and Medicare benefits are covered. What percentage of the population of the U.S. has good coverage? Maybe 80%. I understand that the remaining 20% is a problem; what I don't understand is why we would risk fvcking it up for the 80% who do have coverage in order to provide coverage for the 20%.

Second, is it a problem that health insurance is expensive? Think about some of what goes into quality healthcare: a long and expensive educational process, equipment that is expensive to develop and produce, drugs that are expensive to research & develop, etc. Are there inefficiencies and excess profits in healthcare? Yes. But the same could be said about other expensive products such as the automobile. Yet most people seem to be able to find a transportation solution that meets their budget, a used Civic might not be as nice as a new Cadillac but it can still get you where you need to go. Why can't we find a "used Civic" solution for the 20% who can't afford the Cadillac? They need basic coverage to help keep them well and to take care of catastrophes, they don't need all of the bells and whistles.

[kalm]

And it's really expensive for all income levels.

America...We're exceptional...for many people...especially the wealthy...or for those fortunate enough to have their employers cover healthcare expenses...and for those with the socialized VA and Medicare.

First, so the wealthy, many employees, and people with VA and Medicare benefits are covered. What percentage of the population of the U.S. has good coverage? Maybe 80%. I understand that the remaining 20% is a problem; what I don't understand is why we would risk fvcking it up for the 80% who do have coverage in order to provide coverage for the 20%.

Second, is it a problem that health insurance is expensive? Think about some of what goes into quality healthcare: a long and expensive educational process, equipment that is expensive to develop and produce, drugs that are expensive to research & develop, etc. Are there inefficiencies and excess profits in healthcare? Yes. But the same could be said about other expensive products such as the automobile. Yet most people seem to be able to find a transportation solution that meets their budget, a used Civic might not be as nice as a new Cadillac but it can still get you where you need to go. Why can't we find a "used Civic" solution for the 20% who can't afford the Cadillac? They need basic coverage to help keep them well and to take care of catastrophes, they don't need all of the bells and whistles.

Other countries are providing equal basic care for less money.

People with health insurance are going bankrupt over medical bills.

Health Insurance CEO's are overpaid.

[UNI88]

First, so the wealthy, many employees, and people with VA and Medicare benefits are covered. What percentage of the population of the U.S. has good coverage? Maybe 80%. I understand that the remaining 20% is a problem; what I don't understand is why we would risk fvcking it up for the 80% who do have coverage in order to provide coverage for the 20%.

Second, is it a problem that health insurance is expensive? Think about some of what goes into quality healthcare: a long and expensive educational process, equipment that is expensive to develop and produce, drugs that are expensive to research & develop, etc. Are there inefficiencies and excess profits in healthcare? Yes. But the same could be said about other expensive products such as the automobile. Yet most people seem to be able to find a transportation solution that meets their budget, a used Civic might not be as nice as a new Cadillac but it can still get you where you need to go. Why can't we find a "used Civic" solution for the 20% who can't afford the Cadillac? They need basic coverage to help keep them well and to take care of catastrophes, they don't need all of the bells and whistles.

Other countries are providing equal basic care for less money.

People with health insurance are going bankrupt over medical bills.

Health Insurance CEO's are overpaid.

Are other countires providing equal basic care for less money? Or is American healthcare more expensive because we want the Cadillac? Because we're more litigous? Because we limit a healthcare insurer to a single geographic region (i.e. state)?

So what that Health Insurance CEO's are overpaid? Most CEO's are overpaid. A lot of people are overpaid. UAW workers are probably overpaid for what they have to do on an automated assembly line.

I don't think the system is perfect but I also think the Dems are throwing the baby out with the bath water. The Dem leadership is so focused on solving the country's problem as they see it that they aren't listening to the people when they're trying to tell them what their problems really are and what they want and need. If the Dems force through a healthcare bill that is enormously expensive and fvcks up the healthcare of the 80% they risk rendering themselves irrelevant for a long time.

[GannonFan]

Other countries are providing equal basic care for less money.

People with health insurance are going bankrupt over medical bills.

Health Insurance CEO's are overpaid.

Are other countires providing equal basic care for less money? Or is American healthcare more expensive because we want the Cadillac? Because we're more litigous? Because we limit a healthcare insurer to a single geographic region (i.e. state)?

So what that Health Insurance CEO's are overpaid? Most CEO's are overpaid. A lot of people are overpaid. UAW workers are probably overpaid for what they have to do on an automated assembly line.

I don't think the system is perfect but I also think the Dems are throwing the baby out with the bath water. The Dem leadership is so focused on solving the country's problem as they see it that they aren't listening to the people when they're trying to tell them what their problems really are and what they want and need. If the Dems force through a healthcare bill that is enormously expensive and fvcks up the healthcare of the 80% they risk rendering themselves irrelevant for a long time.

I'm with UNI on this one - the problem, if you want to phrase it as such, with the American health care system is that we want and have the best of everything, and in large quantities of it. The best doctors with the best education with the best equipment with the best medical research with the best pharmaceuticals, ets. It's like we bought a computer that would cost someone $750 and instead said yes to every upgrade imagineable and got a $5k computer. It works great and there's no job that we can't do on it, but it's really expensive.

But there has to be a way to cover the other 20% of Americans who don't have access to the same system on a regular basis (note that 20% still has access to health care, they just use the ER's and have the rest of us pay for it).

[CID1990]

I've taken hundreds of homeless or penniless people to the ER over the years, and they have always been treated. Those same people have access to a number of free clinics that provide not only critical and pre-natal care, but also preventative care, as well.

I've also been exposed to a couple third-world systems and although I have not seen the healthcare systems in the whole world. However the experiences I do have lead me to believe that when people say the US has one of the worst systems for the poor I think they are getting their info from questionable sources.