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OK. 10 days or so ago while at his after school program, Adeland fell and hit his head on a cooler at school. He got a small cut on his head that didn't look too bad, but because it kept bleeding the school insisted on calling an ambulance. This happened just as the after school program was ending for the day so I was walking to the school to get him when they called me.

The ambulance arrived and they put a bandage on the cut and off in the ambulance we went to Lutheran Medical Center.

We had a short wait in the emergency room before we got in to see a doctor. Meantime his mom was coming from work with his medical insurance information. When she got there they made her wait in the waiting room because they were doing a shift change... She would have to wait an hour before being allowed where he was at. They wouldn't even let me go to the waiting area to let her know he was OK.

The doctor was great and managed to convince him to put in 4 staples and there we stood for 35 minutes until they would allow his mom back to sign his discharge papers so he could leave.

Overall the emergency room experience would get a 9 rating o9ut of 10.

Then the idiocy started.

First in the Emergency room they told us to come back in 1 week to remove the staples. So last Friday we took the subway to the hospital, several train detours later we got there only to be told by the clinic that their pediatric doctors aren't there on Fridays and we would need to come back the following Tuesday and we were given a 1:10 PM appointment.

So today we make the trip back to the hospital 20 minutes early for our appointment. Now I know appointments with doctors generally never go off on schedule, so I was prepared to wait a bit.

We get there and sign in and gave the paperwork to the desk. She tells us there are three people waiting ahead of us... I look around, not another kid in the entire waiting area.

Finally, three hours later they call his name and to the counter we go. Now they decide to take information because its his first time in the clinic... We couldn't have got that all done 3 hours ago??>?? Its then that they decide his 25 year old brother may not be acceptable to approve removal of the staples and we may have to call his mom to come... this would result in at least another hours wait... off goes the clerk to the back room and returns 10 minutes later thankfully letting us know its fine.

We are told to wait again and almost instantly he is paged to come to exam room 4.

We get there and are told a student doctor will be removing the staples. (WHAT? I was told Friday we had to come back when a pediatrician was there and now they are going to let a student do it? why couldn't who ever was there Friday have just done it>??)

Now I understand doctors need to learn and the best way to learn is on actual patients, but please. young children should not be used as guinea pigs by student doctors, especially dumb bitches like this one was.

She begins removing the staples... well trying to anyway... after 5 minutes of trying to remove a staple, twisting and pulling (they are suppose to come out easily when done properly) she realizes she is using the wrong thing. Poor kid is in pain sitting there with tears coming down his cheek doing his best to not break down crying in pain.

She leaves and comes back after talking to her supervising doctor. (Turns out he was in the next room yapping on the phone instead of supervising his student) She has a new tool with her and boom out they come as easy as ever as they should have.

She looks at him and says, "now that wasn't too bad huh", his brother told him to say thank you to her, which he refused to do... Good for him, I wouldn't thank her for being a dumb bitch who caused unnecessary pain either.

Just think how much better your experience would be with govt run healthcare!

My sympathies, but it sounds more like a poorly run hospital than an indictment of the actual US healthcare system.

Is there a point to that somewhere? Sounds like crappy healthcare that could happen in any system.

Pwns wrote:My sympathies, but it sounds more like a poorly run hospital than an indictment of the actual US healthcare system.

This.


How is it the insurance companies fault that your doctor doesn't work at that hospital on Friday's, that your nurse doesn't know how to take a staple out, or that the hospital staff is unorganized?

Pwns wrote:My sympathies, but it sounds more like a poorly run hospital than an indictment of the actual US healthcare system.

Sounds about right.

By the way, don't ever get sick or hurt in Delaware. We have exactly four hospitals in the two southernmost counties and each and every one sucks hard.

Two most recent emergency room visits:

1. My dog (then puppy) ripped a two inch gash in my right index finger with his razor teeth and I was bleeding profusely. My wife drove me to Kent General ER. They gave me gauze and told me to keep pressure on it. They got me in for stitches about an hour later.

2. My wife was about six months pregnant with our first son and had flu-like symptoms and a fever of 101 and rising. We went to the Milford Memorial hospital ER at 11 pm. They did not admit her until 2:30 am after she vomited on the waiting room floor.

bah! just throw some duct tape over the cut. That'll stop the bleeding.

I can't complain about the service at the ER anyway, but here is my story. Keep in mind that I don't have insurance so all the financial transactions are full out of pocket costs for me.

About a year and a half ago I suffered something called vertigo, its where the world starts spinning causing me not to walk straight and lots of vomiting. Wife was worried and took me to the ER went in shortly after I got there and got decent good service. Then I got the bill (I'm self-employed and currently don't have insurance) that visit cost me $2,200 including a 1,200 charge for an MRI. I was at the ER a total of around 4 hours.

The problems persisted, if I didn't get full blown vertigo I would get serious dizziness. It was making work incredibly difficult so I decided to go to a specialist. Called in for an appointment and a week later I went to a specialist ($150) and he asked me to do another MRI ($800 ) a hearing test ($350) and got me a valium and diueritic prescription (surprisingly only $15 without insurance. However since this didn't help I then went to same specialist ($150) and got sent for another set of balance tests ($1400), got instructed to keep a low salt diet (I didn't know how much this sucked until I did it). As the months went by things got better but the problems never really went away, I would still get dizzy and if I didn't lay down or sit down somewhere the dizziness you turn into full blown vertigo. However the doctor said that what I have is rather permanent and that I have to learn to live with it, needless to say I was rather depressed over it.

Back in November the dizziness got worse and it got to the point to for about two weeks I could hardly get up of bed and that was to go to the bathroom for anything else I needed my wife to help me walk. My inlaws came to visit, the suggested we go to Mexico to see a doctor there. By that point in time I was desperate and agreed. My wife drove me (about $30 in gas) Piedras Negras (Mexican border town) went to the doctor's office and waited in line (Mexican doctors wait in a first come first serve). About 30 minutes later I saw the doctor ($25), he asked a few questions, examined my face and told me it was a rather severe sinus problem due to some allergy. Gave me a prescription for predizone, nasanex and a saline solution all together around $25. Within 24 hours I went from needing my wife to walk to my car to being able to walk by myself. Within 48 hrs I was back to 100% normal and have been that way the last three months.

This is not to say that the Mexican health care system is better, but it certainly shouldn't be looked down upon.

Pwns wrote:My sympathies, but it sounds more like a poorly run hospital than an indictment of the actual US healthcare system.

Seriously.

Adeland?

Re txstatebobcat:

Damn dude. Glad you made it over the border for some progressive healthcare.

I think your story illustrates (and I may get vilified for this comment), how the Mexican system is focused on the most direct route to resolution, while the heavily profit-driven US system is more concerned with leading you through (at whatever rate they see fit) every single diagnostic they can possibly justify so they can tally as many line items as possible to bill your insurance company. You may have actually gotten less treatment at your US hospital since they knew up front that they didn't have an insurance company to bill.

Granted, if I were ever to get major surgery, I'd want it to be done here in the good old US of A, but major surgery has to be a much smaller percentage of the care needed in this country than the number of ER visits and horror stories we've all mentioned.

93henfan wrote: I think your story illustrates (and I may get vilified for this comment), how the Mexican system is focused on the most direct route to resolution, while the heavily profit-driven US system is more concerned with leading you through (at whatever rate they see fit) every single diagnostic they can possibly justify so they can tally as many line items as possible to bill your insurance company. You may have actually gotten less treatment at your US hospital since they knew up front that they didn't have an insurance company to bill.

Granted, if I were ever to get major surgery, I'd want it to be done here in the good old US of A, but major surgery has to be a much smaller percentage of the care needed in this country than the number of ER visits and horror stories we've all mentioned.

I won't disagree with you on this - there is a cost to having some of the world's best healthcare in that MRI's, CT scanners, minimally invasive operating equipment, etc. doesn't pay for itself without getting used. I agree that some MD's try to see how much they can get out of the system (I think my doc does ) with too much diagnostic work going on. I have good insurance fortunately, but I question my doc on certain things to be certain that (1) I don't have to take time, effort, or bodily fluids for unnecessary testing and (2) that my doc isn't padding his practice. I think as patients your first priority obviously is maintaining your health at the highest level, but we're also stewards on the front lines to understand why some of these diagnostic tools are necessary. Docs don't like to be challenged, but I ask a ton of questions - I don't like seeing my premiums rise every year, so I do what I can to keep my costs in check:twocents:

I went to the department of licensing the other day to get tabs for my boat trailor. I spent 5 minutes waiting, then handed over my driver's license so they could look up the license # info, paid my $30, and was out of there. The whole visit took under 10 minutes and if you throw in my $22 fishing license, I am now legal to operate my boat and trailor on the state's roads, use the state improved boat launches and public access, and catch fish for about $50 this year. Since I will go fishing at least 25 it works out to $2 per trip.

Efficient and affordable government services.

I don't know - I've had my kids in the ER twice over the past two years (one for a gash to the head and one for pneumonia/RSV) and it went smoothingly both times. And why did the ER make you go back to the ER to have the stitches/staples removed? Our own doctor is more than capable of doing that in the office and it's much easier. Rule of thumb, the ER's are good for "emergencies" - if you go to the ER and are not an emergency, you'll get triaged right to the back of the line. Health care is often what you make of it - some people need to learn how to use the system better.

Here's my recent story:

In December, the wife and I are returning from a movie and see a lady chasing a dog near a busy 4 lane road and find that it got out of her car when she parked it. Fifteen minutes later after a substantial amount of running and driving I get the dog (cocker spaniel) cornered and attempt to catch it. In return I receive a 1.5" gash on my middle finger and a smaller one on my index finger from the ensuing dogbite. I grab the dog, hand it to the owner, she takes off and leaves before I can get any info.

Fast forward to me at the emergency room dripping blood all over the place - they take me back immediately. Since we don't know the dog's history, they give me a tetanus shot. Then the doc irrigates both wounds, gives me 2 stitches (they leave animal bites pretty open), give me two ibuprophen and a pain pill (which I didn't ask for).

Overall, fast, efficient, and professional visit. Then I start getting the correspondence between the insurance co. and the hospital. Turns out the 3 pills I got were over $400 and the total visit was well over $2500. I haven't received anything yet saying what my portion of this is, but the cost of a relatively simple visit like this shouldn't cost this much.

ASUG8 wrote:Here's my recent story:

In December, the wife and I are returning from a movie and see a lady chasing a dog near a busy 4 lane road and find that it got out of her car when she parked it. Fifteen minutes later after a substantial amount of running and driving I get the dog (cocker spaniel) cornered and attempt to catch it. In return I receive a 1.5" gash on my middle finger and a smaller one on my index finger from the ensuing dogbite. I grab the dog, hand it to the owner, she takes off and leaves before I can get any info.

Fast forward to me at the emergency room dripping blood all over the place - they take me back immediately. Since we don't know the dog's history, they give me a tetanus shot. Then the doc irrigates both wounds, gives me 2 stitches (they leave animal bites pretty open), give me two ibuprophen and a pain pill (which I didn't ask for).

Overall, fast, efficient, and professional visit. Then I start getting the correspondence between the insurance co. and the hospital. Turns out the 3 pills I got were over $400 and the total visit was well over $2500. I haven't received anything yet saying what my portion of this is, but the cost of a relatively simple visit like this shouldn't cost this much.

Every now and then I will get in a small auto accident case where the client only went to the ER and then one follow-up visit. It's not uncommon for the simple ER bill to run between 3-5K, sometimes a little more.

clenz wrote:

Pwns wrote:My sympathies, but it sounds more like a poorly run hospital than an indictment of the actual US healthcare system.

This.


How is it the insurance companies fault that your doctor doesn't work at that hospital on Friday's, that your nurse doesn't know how to take a staple out, or that the hospital staff is unorganized?

It wasn't a nurse, it was a student doctor. I bet a nurse would have been able to handle the task just fine.

I once had a student doctor put the stethoscope on the right side of my body (near my hip) and then realize that I was lying the other way on the table.

JayJ79 wrote:bah! just throw some duct tape over the cut. That'll stop the bleeding.

I use electrical tape. Works wonders.

Doesn't everyone know that all you have to do is complain about chest pains in the ER and you'll be bumped to the front of the line? Even the homeless and drug addicts (not mutually exclusive) have this figured out....

93henfan wrote:Re txstatebobcat:

Damn dude. Glad you made it over the border for some progressive healthcare.

I think your story illustrates (and I may get vilified for this comment), how the Mexican system is focused on the most direct route to resolution, while the heavily profit-driven US system is more concerned with leading you through (at whatever rate they see fit) every single diagnostic they can possibly justify so they can tally as many line items as possible to bill your insurance company. You may have actually gotten less treatment at your US hospital since they knew up front that they didn't have an insurance company to bill.

Granted, if I were ever to get major surgery, I'd want it to be done here in the good old US of A, but major surgery has to be a much smaller percentage of the care needed in this country than the number of ER visits and horror stories we've all mentioned.

That's partially true. But also you often have every test in the book being done for CYA against malpractice. Tort reform would eliminate alot of that.

ASUG8 wrote:Here's my recent story:

In December, the wife and I are returning from a movie and see a lady chasing a dog near a busy 4 lane road and find that it got out of her car when she parked it. Fifteen minutes later after a substantial amount of running and driving I get the dog (cocker spaniel) cornered and attempt to catch it. In return I receive a 1.5" gash on my middle finger and a smaller one on my index finger from the ensuing dogbite. I grab the dog, hand it to the owner, she takes off and leaves before I can get any info.

Fast forward to me at the emergency room dripping blood all over the place - they take me back immediately. Since we don't know the dog's history, they give me a tetanus shot. Then the doc irrigates both wounds, gives me 2 stitches (they leave animal bites pretty open), give me two ibuprophen and a pain pill (which I didn't ask for).

Overall, fast, efficient, and professional visit. Then I start getting the correspondence between the insurance co. and the hospital. Turns out the 3 pills I got were over $400 and the total visit was well over $2500. I haven't received anything yet saying what my portion of this is, but the cost of a relatively simple visit like this shouldn't cost this much.

But notice how much your insurance company was billed and how much they actually paid. Case in point. I tore my distal bicep tendon doing an axle deadlift last spring (no more reverse grip DLs for me). For the surgery between my doctor's office, the anesthesiologist and the hospital my insurance was charged about 39 grand. They paid out about $3800, and my co-pay was $100. So only about 10% was paid out of what was billed.

BTW the injury happened to me on a Sun. I called the docs office on a Mon, saw him on a Tues, and was operated on on a Wed at Delaware County Memorial outside of Philly. Pretty efficient.

93henfan wrote:Re txstatebobcat:

Damn dude. Glad you made it over the border for some progressive healthcare.

I think your story illustrates (and I may get vilified for this comment), how the Mexican system is focused on the most direct route to resolution, while the heavily profit-driven US system is more concerned with leading you through (at whatever rate they see fit) every single diagnostic they can possibly justify so they can tally as many line items as possible to bill your insurance company. You may have actually gotten less treatment at your US hospital since they knew up front that they didn't have an insurance company to bill.

Granted, if I were ever to get major surgery, I'd want it to be done here in the good old US of A, but major surgery has to be a much smaller percentage of the care needed in this country than the number of ER visits and horror stories we've all mentioned.

That is part of the reason that the costs are so high, but remember... the docs don't own the MRI machine. It is usually owned by a medical facility that can charge exorbitant rates because most people who are getting MRIs have insurance, so it isn't hitting them directly in the pockets.

Also, you should take a gander sometime at the endless conditional agreements in malpractice insurance policies. Heck, my Dad was just a dentist, and the things he was required to do just to maintain his premiums (or his insurance policy in general for that matter) were absolutely redonkulous. If you are having headaches accompanied by dizziness in the US, the doctor is all but required to indicate an MRI or a CT scan if he wants to practice medicine for very long. If we had significant tort reform, we'd see at least some costs coming down, but there would still be the profit seeking issues you mentioned. It is a mixed bag when we talk about the causes of the high cost of health care, but the problem right now (and the reason we will never see a real solution) is because the issue is too politically charged, and the politicians are in the pockets of the people who stand to lose the most from reform. The lawyers have the Dems by the balls, and the pharmaceutical and medical equipment companies have the Republicans by the balls. Neither side will give anything, or acknowledge that the other side's list of reasons has any validity.

That's why when I hear Obama talk about how there will be some tort reform in his "new" package I know he is lying through his teeth, just like a Republican would be if he claimed he was going to put premium controls on the insurance companies.

txstatebobcat wrote:I can't complain about the service at the ER anyway, but here is my story. Keep in mind that I don't have insurance so all the financial transactions are full out of pocket costs for me.

About a year and a half ago I suffered something called vertigo, its where the world starts spinning causing me not to walk straight and lots of vomiting. Wife was worried and took me to the ER went in shortly after I got there and got decent good service. Then I got the bill (I'm self-employed and currently don't have insurance) that visit cost me $2,200 including a 1,200 charge for an MRI. I was at the ER a total of around 4 hours.

The problems persisted, if I didn't get full blown vertigo I would get serious dizziness. It was making work incredibly difficult so I decided to go to a specialist. Called in for an appointment and a week later I went to a specialist ($150) and he asked me to do another MRI ($800 ) a hearing test ($350) and got me a valium and diueritic prescription (surprisingly only $15 without insurance. However since this didn't help I then went to same specialist ($150) and got sent for another set of balance tests ($1400), got instructed to keep a low salt diet (I didn't know how much this sucked until I did it). As the months went by things got better but the problems never really went away, I would still get dizzy and if I didn't lay down or sit down somewhere the dizziness you turn into full blown vertigo. However the doctor said that what I have is rather permanent and that I have to learn to live with it, needless to say I was rather depressed over it.

Back in November the dizziness got worse and it got to the point to for about two weeks I could hardly get up of bed and that was to go to the bathroom for anything else I needed my wife to help me walk. My inlaws came to visit, the suggested we go to Mexico to see a doctor there. By that point in time I was desperate and agreed. My wife drove me (about $30 in gas) Piedras Negras (Mexican border town) went to the doctor's office and waited in line (Mexican doctors wait in a first come first serve). About 30 minutes later I saw the doctor ($25), he asked a few questions, examined my face and told me it was a rather severe sinus problem due to some allergy. Gave me a prescription for predizone, nasanex and a saline solution all together around $25. Within 24 hours I went from needing my wife to walk to my car to being able to walk by myself. Within 48 hrs I was back to 100% normal and have been that way the last three months.

This is not to say that the Mexican health care system is better, but it certainly shouldn't be looked down upon.

Holy crap, dude, I could have told you that it was a sinus infection. That is the first thing to check for when you get dizzy.

txstatebobcat,

All of my siblings go south of the border for dental work and no one has had any problems with service, quality of work or anything that would deter them from event hesitating to get their dental work down their. A common misconception is that because they are doctors in a 3rd world country, they are not as competent or qualified as doctors in the US. Also before I was born, my mom and dad were in a serious car wreck (driving at night on a 2 lane road and rolled the van as a semi-truck came in the opposite direction) in Mexico. They had no issues getting patched back up and to this day my dad swears it was the best medical care he ever received. The point is medical care south of the border is sufficient and is a viable option (unless its urgent care) if you have the time to travel and no qualms about using their services. The best part of it all is their at cost fees are far less (for the most part) than anything here.

Pwns wrote:My sympathies, but it sounds more like a poorly run hospital than an indictment of the actual US healthcare system.

My first and really only thought too.