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well..........................can't say we didn't see this coming.

This is definitely my #1 hotbutton issue now. I can't tell you how PO I got hearing Hillary Clinton's campaign commercials saying "Hillary stopped George Bush from handing social security over to Wall Street". WTF. Can you really not tell me that if we had put the excesses of the system in the stock market rather than putting it in the black hole of treasury bonds the system would be better off? And that the so-called "trust fund" would have actual money in it instead of IOUs from a government already in debt up to its armpits?

Matter of fact, it's this issue that has had me rethinking illegal immigration. F%^& the anti-immigration movement. We need to convert these illegals into educated, English-speaking workers or the system will never be sustainable. There isn't going to be sh^t left in the cookie jar when the younger GenX'ers and millenials reach retirement age unless we can bring the worker population up.

at least privatize it...then lets see what we can do from there

Pwns wrote:This is definitely my #1 hotbutton issue now. I can't tell you how PO I got hearing Hillary Clinton's campaign commercials saying "Hillary stopped George Bush from handing social security over to Wall Street". WTF. Can you really not tell me that if we had put the excesses of the system in the stock market rather than putting it in the black hole of treasury bonds the system would be better off? And that the so-called "trust fund" would have actual money in it instead of IOUs from a government already in debt up to its armpits?

Matter of fact, it's this issue that has had me rethinking illegal immigration. F%^& the anti-immigration movement. We need to convert these illegals into educated, English-speaking workers or the system will never be sustainable. There isn't going to be sh^t left in the cookie jar when the younger GenX'ers and millenials reach retirement age unless we can bring the worker population up.

Awww, c'mon...instead of attracting more illegal immigrants, we should be telling our youngsters to fuck like crazy...everyone they see...to increase our birth rates. Keep America strong! Pop out those babies every opportunity and we'll take care of them by increasing health care, printing more money, and flooding the future with more workers!

Woo-hoo!!!

youngterrier wrote:at least privatize it...then lets see what we can do from there

Are you kidding? Invest it with the clowns we're still bailing out from their miserable incompetence?

houndawg wrote:

youngterrier wrote:at least privatize it...then lets see what we can do from there

Are you kidding? Invest it with the clowns we're still bailing out from their miserable incompetence?

my thoughts exactly.

Pwns wrote:This is definitely my #1 hotbutton issue now. I can't tell you how PO I got hearing Hillary Clinton's campaign commercials saying "Hillary stopped George Bush from handing social security over to Wall Street". WTF. Can you really not tell me that if we had put the excesses of the system in the stock market rather than putting it in the black hole of treasury bonds the system would be better off? And that the so-called "trust fund" would have actual money in it instead of IOUs from a government already in debt up to its armpits?

Matter of fact, it's this issue that has had me rethinking illegal immigration. F%^& the anti-immigration movement. We need to convert these illegals into educated, English-speaking workers or the system will never be sustainable. There isn't going to be sh^t left in the cookie jar when the younger GenX'ers and millenials reach retirement age unless we can bring the worker population up.

not to mention 50 million potential workers who never got to put into it. I'm just saying...............

catamount man wrote:

Pwns wrote:This is definitely my #1 hotbutton issue now. I can't tell you how PO I got hearing Hillary Clinton's campaign commercials saying "Hillary stopped George Bush from handing social security over to Wall Street". WTF. Can you really not tell me that if we had put the excesses of the system in the stock market rather than putting it in the black hole of treasury bonds the system would be better off? And that the so-called "trust fund" would have actual money in it instead of IOUs from a government already in debt up to its armpits?

Matter of fact, it's this issue that has had me rethinking illegal immigration. F%^& the anti-immigration movement. We need to convert these illegals into educated, English-speaking workers or the system will never be sustainable. There isn't going to be sh^t left in the cookie jar when the younger GenX'ers and millenials reach retirement age unless we can bring the worker population up.

not to mention 50 million potential workers who never got to put into it. I'm just saying...............

They're the lucky ones, I've been paying in for 40 years.

houndawg wrote:

catamount man wrote:
not to mention 50 million potential workers who never got to put into it. I'm just saying...............

They're the lucky ones, I've been paying in for 40 years.

I'm only a coupla years behind ya, dawg, and I don't expect to see much from social security. In fact, I hope I live to 90 and never see a cent, because that will mean we fixed it.

Every arsehole who has lived past 67 or so collected way more than they put in to Social Security. Same with medicare. Nothing but pyramid schemes. Big lies.

houndawg wrote:

youngterrier wrote:at least privatize it...then lets see what we can do from there

Are you kidding? Invest it with the clowns we're still bailing out from their miserable incompetence?

As compared to keeping it with the masters of incompetence?
Do you honestly think the private sector could fvck up social security any worse than the government has? It's impossible.

houndawg wrote:

youngterrier wrote:at least privatize it...then lets see what we can do from there

Are you kidding? Invest it with the clowns we're still bailing out from their miserable incompetence?

Predictable that you would knock the private sector...

However, my investments are still doing OK and improving. I'd wager that Social Security would still have problems if it were being administered in the private sector, but I don't think anyone believes that it would be in worse shape than it currently is.

That pretty much applies to any program that is entirely run by our government. And we want to turn healthcare over to these people. We have not learned from our history in this venue, therefore we are destined to repeat it.

SS is easy to fix - retirement age needs to rise with medical advances, the cap on wages taxed by SS needs to be eliminated. Problem solved.

And no privitization - that would kill it.

dbackjon wrote:SS is easy to fix - retirement age needs to rise with medical advances, the cap on wages taxed by SS needs to be eliminated. Problem solved.

And no privitization - that would kill it.

I agree with the cap on wages being eliminated - never quite understood that. And I agree with the no to privitization, but probably for different reasons. At least now, it's in the hands of the government, which isn't great as the track record shows, but at least they can make more money to make up for their incompentence (although that is limited and fraught with problems in and of itself). If you privatize it, I'm not worried about Wall Street screwing it up - I'm worried about the individual people being too dim to manage it correctly. It's like all those people who lost their retirement nest egg when Enron imploded - sure, the execs at Enron did a lot of bad things, but no one forced all those employees to go all in with only Enron stock. You put all those eggs into one basket and you're partly to blame when it goes bad. You can't be that naive investing your money, but many people are, hence the danger of privatization.

As for the point about the retirement age and rising with medical advances, on the surface that sounds great, but in an economy where we are searching for jobs already how do you figure we cope with tens of millions of seniors now being thrown back into the employment pool? Where are all the jobs these people are going to fill and if they take away jobs from people well below retirement age (as the age is today) what do we do with those displaced workers?

GannonFan wrote:As for the point about the retirement age and rising with medical advances, on the surface that sounds great, but in an economy where we are searching for jobs already how do you figure we cope with tens of millions of seniors now being thrown back into the employment pool? Where are all the jobs these people are going to fill and if they take away jobs from people well below retirement age (as the age is today) what do we do with those displaced workers?

We export our workers to southern China and Thailand where they can work in those bustling economies and enjoy a good climate...then they can send money back home here to their families.

I'm not worried about it. I would rather have health care and less carbon emissions than retire.

dbackjon wrote:SS is easy to fix - retirement age needs to rise with medical advances, the cap on wages taxed by SS needs to be eliminated. Problem solved.

And no privitization - that would kill it.

You think the Greeks behave badly when you try to raise their retirement age to 63, just wait til you see how us teabaggers act. Get the Government out of my retirment

CID1990 wrote:

houndawg wrote:
Are you kidding? Invest it with the clowns we're still bailing out from their miserable incompetence?

Predictable that you would knock the private sector...

However, my investments are still doing OK and improving. I'd wager that Social Security would still have problems if it were being administered in the private sector, but I don't think anyone believes that it would be in worse shape than it currently is.

That pretty much applies to any program that is entirely run by our government. And we want to turn healthcare over to these people. We have not learned from our history in this venue, therefore we are destined to repeat it.

Yeah, I shouldn't be that way...... poor bastards down on Wall St. crapped in their feed trough, and just as soon as we're done paying for their incompetence we should reward them with a new feed trough filled with tens of billions of dollars worth of "fees" that will no doubt come right off the top.....

dbackjon wrote:SS is easy to fix - retirement age needs to rise with medical advances, the cap on wages taxed by SS needs to be eliminated. Problem solved.

And no privitization - that would kill it.

it's easy, that's why congress hasn't gotten it done

Baldy wrote:

houndawg wrote:
Are you kidding? Invest it with the clowns we're still bailing out from their miserable incompetence?

As compared to keeping it with the masters of incompetence?
Do you honestly think the private sector could fvck up social security any worse than the government has? It's impossible.

Impossible my ass. It's more than likely. These guys just got done running the country into the ground and now you want to hand them what's left of SS?

houndawg wrote:

Baldy wrote:
As compared to keeping it with the masters of incompetence?
Do you honestly think the private sector could fvck up social security any worse than the government has? It's impossible.

Impossible my ass. It's more than likely. These guys just got done running the country into the ground and now you want to hand them what's left of SS?

I never saw a proposed privatization plan that required one to put their money in the hands of wall street. The point is that it would be your money. you could buy T-bills if that is what you want.

houndawg wrote:

Baldy wrote:
As compared to keeping it with the masters of incompetence?
Do you honestly think the private sector could fvck up social security any worse than the government has? It's impossible.

Impossible my ass. It's more than likely. These guys just got done running the country into the ground and now you want to hand them what's left of SS?

Ummm...the ones who "got done running the country into the ground" are the ones who are in charge of social security now.

It's the federal government who is running a $1.6 TRILLION deficit. Many of the firms who were "bailed out" have already paid back with interest. Government Motors and Chrysler are bleeding red while 'privately owned' Ford is posting profits.

Sacrifice your wallet at the altar of big government all you want. I'll put my trust in Wall Street every time, and I will come out ahead...every time.

Baldy wrote:

houndawg wrote:
Impossible my ass. It's more than likely. These guys just got done running the country into the ground and now you want to hand them what's left of SS?

Ummm...the ones who "got done running the country into the ground" are the ones who are in charge of social security now.

It's the federal government who is running a $1.6 TRILLION deficit. Many of the firms who were "bailed out" have already paid back with interest. Government Motors and Chrysler are bleeding red while 'privately owned' Ford is posting profits.

Sacrifice your wallet at the altar of big government all you want. I'll put my trust in Wall Street every time, and I will come out ahead...every time.

You go girl.

OL FU wrote:

houndawg wrote:
Impossible my ass. It's more than likely. These guys just got done running the country into the ground and now you want to hand them what's left of SS?

I never saw a proposed privatization plan that required one to put their money in the hands of wall street. The point is that it would be your money. you could buy T-bills if that is what you want.

I can do that.

What happens to the part they have been "borrowing"?

OL FU wrote:

houndawg wrote:
Impossible my ass. It's more than likely. These guys just got done running the country into the ground and now you want to hand them what's left of SS?

I never saw a proposed privatization plan that required one to put their money in the hands of wall street. The point is that it would be your money. you could buy T-bills if that is what you want.

Shhh - don't get in the way of the "Blame Wall Street for Everything" mantra. Some people like to keep things simple, even if it results in inaccuracies.

GannonFan wrote:

OL FU wrote:
I never saw a proposed privatization plan that required one to put their money in the hands of wall street. The point is that it would be your money. you could buy T-bills if that is what you want.

Shhh - don't get in the way of the "Blame Wall Street for Everything" mantra. Some people like to keep things simple, even if it results in inaccuracies.

No shit. Hate runs deep.