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If the government was taking over the healthcare industry... shouldn't health care stocks be tanking?

Surely the free market wouldn't act favorable to the recent news that we are a socialist, fascist, Communist, dictatorship.

The hit to pharma companies took place after Obama was elected and the Dems took control of Congress and then again in Feb when the bills really starting getting momentum. The market has been anticipating some kind of reform since then. The uptick in health care stocks today is, IMO, a correction as the reform doesn't hurt the pharma companies nearly as much as was anticipated. Especially with all the deferrals for industry fees from 2010 to 2012 and 2014.

Plus there's the whole idea that there will now be more insured people in this country, which means more guaranteed revenue for every health care related field (including insurance companies to some extent).

Yeah, I'm not saying that the small increase today is evidence that health care bill is a success. But, I do think it's evidence that it's not the Marxist wet dream we've heard about for the past 12 months.

Skjellyfetti wrote:Yeah, I'm not saying that the small increase today is evidence that health care bill is a success. But, I do think it's evidence that it's not the Marxist wet dream we've heard about for the past 12 months.

Agreed.

Hmmmm. danefan is far to rational and centrist.

I'd really like some input from looney teabagger types.

Why didn't health industry stock tank today? Why didn't the market as a whole tank with the news of government taking over 1/6 of our economy as y'all have been claiming all year?

Skjellyfetti wrote:Hmmmm. danefan is far to rational and centrist.

I'd really like some input from looney teabagger types.

Why didn't health industry stock tank today? Why didn't the market as a whole tank with the news of government taking over 1/6 of our economy as y'all have been claiming all year?

I didn't expect the stock market to tank today, skelly. I expect the result of Obamacare legislation to be a further suppression of employment and dampening of the economy.

Why would health care stocks tank? They just got a trillion dollar infusion of money. Kinda like how colleges haven't suffered financially since the government subsumed responsibility for student loans - tuition goes up every year, government coverage goes right up with it. With that track record of fiscal restraint, I'd be buying health care stock right now too. That's where the money's going.

native wrote:
I didn't expect the stock market to tank today, skelly. I expect the result of Obamacare legislation to be a further suppression of employment and dampening of the economy.

So the free market is ok with rampant socialism? Or the bill isn't as socialist as you've been claiming? Or what?

GannonFan wrote:Why would health care stocks tank? They just got a trillion dollar infusion of money. Kinda like how colleges haven't suffered financially since the government subsumed responsibility for student loans - tuition goes up every year, government coverage goes right up with it. With that track record of fiscal restraint, I'd be buying health care stock right now too. That's where the money's going.

OT, but your post made me think of it - there are some interesting student loan provisions thrown into this health care reconciliation bill. Including making all Stafford loans subsidized for middle-income families.

GannonFan wrote:Why would health care stocks tank? They just got a trillion dollar infusion of money. Kinda like how colleges haven't suffered financially since the government subsumed responsibility for student loans - tuition goes up every year, government coverage goes right up with it. With that track record of fiscal restraint, I'd be buying health care stock right now too. That's where the money's going.

Yeah, I know. I'm not saying it's a surprise they went up today.

I'm saying the health care legislation obviously wasn't a government takeover of healthcare. If it actually was the stocks would be plummeting, right?

Skjellyfetti wrote:So the free market is ok with rampant socialism? Or the bill isn't as socialist as you've been claiming? Or what?

The market cares about the next quarter, not the next decade. I will give this to you, Obama, and all of you commie Alinskyites: You are smart enough to boil the frog sloooooooowly so that he will not jump out of the socialist pot. Most of the "moderates, independents and undecideds" will not be smart enough to jump out until it is too late.

Skjellyfetti wrote:

GannonFan wrote:Why would health care stocks tank? They just got a trillion dollar infusion of money. Kinda like how colleges haven't suffered financially since the government subsumed responsibility for student loans - tuition goes up every year, government coverage goes right up with it. With that track record of fiscal restraint, I'd be buying health care stock right now too. That's where the money's going.

Yeah, I know. I'm not saying it's a surprise they went up today.

I'm saying the health care legislation obviously wasn't a government takeover of healthcare. If it actually was the stocks would be plummeting, right?

I can takes years for stock values to dissipate. What's the difference between big pharma in this instance and the House of Krupp in the 1930's?

danefan wrote:

GannonFan wrote:Why would health care stocks tank? They just got a trillion dollar infusion of money. Kinda like how colleges haven't suffered financially since the government subsumed responsibility for student loans - tuition goes up every year, government coverage goes right up with it. With that track record of fiscal restraint, I'd be buying health care stock right now too. That's where the money's going.

OT, but your post made me think of it - there are some interesting student loan provisions thrown into this health care reconciliation bill. Including making all Stafford loans subsidized for middle-income families.

They've already done the damage to the student loan business years ago when the government decided be the main backer of most of them. Sure others originate them now, and that part is wasteful, but at the end of the day government has decided that everyone needs a college education and they will make sure that everyone can get a loan to get that education. Not surprisingly, colleges have responded to this large infusion of government backed financing by raising their fees and tuitions at incredible clips to ensure they get as much of the federal largesse as possible. It's like a forerunner of where health care is going as we've passed a bill with lots of good things but little capability to control the costs associated with it.

Skjellyfetti wrote:

GannonFan wrote:Why would health care stocks tank? They just got a trillion dollar infusion of money. Kinda like how colleges haven't suffered financially since the government subsumed responsibility for student loans - tuition goes up every year, government coverage goes right up with it. With that track record of fiscal restraint, I'd be buying health care stock right now too. That's where the money's going.

Yeah, I know. I'm not saying it's a surprise they went up today.

I'm saying the health care legislation obviously wasn't a government takeover of healthcare. If it actually was the stocks would be plummeting, right?

Well, the stock market is a way to make money - like I said, now's there another trillion dollars out there waiting to be claimed, with the promise of more and more as time goes on. Why would people interested in getting that money be opposed to that?

GannonFan wrote:

Skjellyfetti wrote:
Yeah, I know. I'm not saying it's a surprise they went up today.

I'm saying the health care legislation obviously wasn't a government takeover of healthcare. If it actually was the stocks would be plummeting, right?

Well, the stock market is a way to make money - like I said, now's there another trillion dollars out there waiting to be claimed, with the promise of more and more as time goes on. Why would people interested in getting that money be opposed to that?

Which brings us back to my question stated above: What is the difference between big pharma today and the House of Krupp in the 1930's?

Skjellyfetti wrote:Yeah, I'm not saying that the small increase today is evidence that health care bill is a success. But, I do think it's evidence that it's not the Marxist wet dream we've heard about for the past 12 months.

Exactly and it's a start toward curtailing a bully, insurance, that has went unregulated for far too long. 32 million people just got a chance to regain their American Dream with the passage of this bill. THANK YOU CONGRESS AND PRESIDENT OBAMA!!!!!!!!!

catamount man wrote:

Skjellyfetti wrote:Yeah, I'm not saying that the small increase today is evidence that health care bill is a success. But, I do think it's evidence that it's not the Marxist wet dream we've heard about for the past 12 months.

Exactly and it's a start toward curtailing a bully, insurance, that has went unregulated for far too long. 32 million people just got a chance to regain their American Dream with the passage of this bill. THANK YOU CONGRESS AND PRESIDENT OBAMA!!!!!!!!!

BS, c-man.

The insurance industry is regulated in all 50 states. You cannot buy an unregulated insurance policy, you cannot choose your own risk pool based on your own needs and behaviors, and you will definitely be less able to do so from here on out.

Wake up, c-man!

I have no idea what the House of Krupp is and I surely can't compare it to the modern pharmaceutical industry. You got me there.

I wanted to thank the Democrats for this. They just handed the election to the GOP. Obama just cost his party so much. For those who said the country supported it needs to wake up. Even very Democrats states are looking like they will go to the GOP because of this. Scott Brown show that all you have to do run against the helathcare bill.

Skjellyfetti wrote:I have no idea what the House of Krupp is and I surely can't compare it to the modern pharmaceutical industry. You got me there.

The House of Krupps is a 400 year old German corporation, and also the title of a book about said house.

Shall we say the the House of Krupp made their own bargain with the devil, just as pharma has done?

And what is it's connection to the modern pharmaceutical industry?

Are they going to arm Obama's plan for world domination?

Or was it just another opportunity to insert Nazism into a thread?

Skjellyfetti wrote:And what is it's connection to the modern pharmaceutical industry?

Are they going to arm Obama's plan for world domination?

Or was it just another opportunity to insert Nazism into a thread?

You said the "n" word, skelly, not me.

You don't actually have to make a connection to national socialism. It is only necessary to recognize, as Gannon fan has pointed out, that the purpose of the corporation is to make money, not support abstract theories of capitalism or liberty.

I am not sure if Obama is out for world domination, but he is doing a pretty darn good job of using extra-Constitutional and undemocratic means to achieve U.S. domination. I'll surely give you that.

I want every teabagger to give up their SS check and their medicare if they keep on complaining about "big government".

catamount man wrote:I want every teabagger to give up their SS check and their medicare if they keep on complaining about "big government".

One way or another, either through financial collapse or legislation, it is not unlikely that we will all lose at least some some portion of social security and medicare.

Unfortunately for everyone, the former is more likely than the latter.

catamount man wrote:I want every teabagger to give up their SS check and their medicare if they keep on complaining about "big government".

I'll gladly give up any future disbursements of social security and medicare if the government will give me back the 14.7% of my income they've seized since I joined the workforce full timt in 1982- with interest and in one lump sum.

If my figures are even close to correct it looks like I'm due about $900,000.

I'll gladly give up any future payments if I can have back what I paid in and the opportunity lost in interest... every day and twice on Sunday. With $900k I will buy my own insurance and fund my own retirement, and do a helluva lot better job than the government at handling it too!