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Should be free to all american citizens. All foreign student should pay a fortune.

Our country needs to do this.

Discuss..

I don't know that I agree with this...however, something needs to be done about the rate that college tuition is going up. They also need to give aid to those who really need it. The FAFSA system is flawed beyond belief. Oh, and minorities shouldn't get scholarships just because they are minority.

If by free you mean there's nothing to pay back...then no, I totally disagree...

Someone has to pay for it...last time I checked those college profs don't teach out of the goodness of their hearts...same with the support staffs...and the buildings need upkeep...etc...

Now, if you want to propose a system where a person who can't afford a college education, but qualifies for college, can get their education with some kind of payback system...then I'm willing to listen, and most likely support...

Just as the military will offer someone a 4-year scholarship through ROTC in exchange for 4 years of service, there are loads of civilian (Federal/state/local) services that could benefit by a similar program...a four years of SUCCESSFUL college education, in exchange for four years of service...

For example, if your degree is in city planning, you will be assigned to a city/state planning agency somewhere in the country where you will do appropriate city/community planning work...

If your degree is in music, you could be assigned to teach music at a high school somewhere in the country where a need has been identified...

If you fail to meet your mandatory work requirement, you then owe for your education...you meet the requirement, and after your four years are complete, you are free to move where ever and work for who ever you can get a job with...

NOTHING IS FREE!!!

Col Hogan wrote:If by free you mean there's nothing to pay back...then no, I totally disagree...

Someone has to pay for it...last time I checked those college profs don't teach out of the goodness of their hearts...same with the support staffs...and the buildings need upkeep...etc...

Now, if you want to propose a system where a person who can't afford a college education, but qualifies for college, can get their education with some kind of payback system...then I'm willing to listen, and most likely support...

Just as the military will offer someone a 4-year scholarship through ROTC in exchange for 4 years of service, there are loads of civilian (Federal/state/local) services that could benefit by a similar program...a four years of SUCCESSFUL college education, in exchange for four years of service...

For example, if your degree is in city planning, you will be assigned to a city/state planning agency somewhere in the country where you will do appropriate city/community planning work...

If your degree is in music, you could be assigned to teach music at a high school somewhere in the country where a need has been identified...

If you fail to meet your mandatory work requirement, you then owe for your education...you meet the requirement, and after your four years are complete, you are free to move where ever and work for who ever you can get a job with...

NOTHING IS FREE!!!

Some of the poorest school districts in Iowa that are desperate for teachers take part in a program that if teachers that graduate from UNI teach there for something like 3 or 5 years their education is paid for.

I don't know exactly how it works, but it gets schools teachers that would struggle attracting teachers

Good ideas colonel.

Don't worry, we're already heading that direction. Soon we'll cap repayments of student loans at 10 years max, and if you don't have a job that will pay you enough to pay back your loans you won't have to pay them back. The government is the final backer on all college loans so we'll just absorb the cost like we do today.

Pretty easy to see why college tuitions have sky rocketed - because they can. They go up by incredible percentages, and having been doing so for a decade, and still more and more people go to college and government provides more and more funding to allow them to afford it. It's a golden time to be a college or university - there's an unlimited amount of money to scoop up and they are doing it with likely no end in sight.

The World needs ditch diggers too!

Col Hogan wrote:
For example, if your degree is in city planning, you will be assigned to a city/state planning agency somewhere in the country where you will do appropriate city/community planning work...

If your degree is in music, you could be assigned to teach music at a high school somewhere in the country where a need has been identified...

If you fail to meet your mandatory work requirement, you then owe for your education...you meet the requirement, and after your four years are complete, you are free to move where ever and work for who ever you can get a job with...

NOTHING IS FREE!!!

The Germans do something similar to this...

What's the economic impact to private industry of an educated workforce?

GannonFan wrote:Don't worry, we're already heading that direction. Soon we'll cap repayments of student loans at 10 years max, and if you don't have a job that will pay you enough to pay back your loans you won't have to pay them back. The government is the final backer on all college loans so we'll just absorb the cost like we do today.

Pretty easy to see why college tuitions have sky rocketed - because they can. They go up by incredible percentages, and having been doing so for a decade, and still more and more people go to college and government provides more and more funding to allow them to afford it. It's a golden time to be a college or university - there's an unlimited amount of money to scoop up and they are doing it with likely no end in sight.

+1
And all the fresh undergrads and newly minted MBA's are delivering pizzas and selling Amway while the US manufacturing base erodes. But that's another thread.
Any proposal along these lines starts with the economy - get people working, increase the tax base, personally spend within your means, and insist that your government do the same. We as a country can't afford to provide the current services provided, much less look at adding additional items like free college. There is plenty of opportunity for a motivated individual to find an avenue to a college degree - personal loans, grants, scholarships, GI Bill, etc. Individuals have a right to educate themselves as much as they like, but there has to be a limit to government handouts.
The Colonel has some good points (trading education for some stipulated work guarantee), although it kind of seems a little Orwellian to me with the designated jobs......

hank scorpio wrote:
The World needs ditch diggers too!

In deed. I don't understand the hard on people have in getting kids to get a 4-year education. I remember seeing a stat a while back that back in the 60's, 70% of jobs needed a HS diploma or lower, 20% needed a 4yr degree or higher and 10% needed a technical certificate or diploma. Now, 10% need a HS diploma or lower, 20% need a 4yr degree or higher and 70% need a technical certificate or diploma. The need for 4yr college grads has stayed the same but funding to get kids to go to 4yr schools has went up exponentially.

GSUhooligan wrote:

hank scorpio wrote:
The World needs ditch diggers too!

In deed. I don't understand the hard on people have in getting kids to get a 4-year education.

Not everyone wants to be a a ditch digger, and having the 4-year degree gives you more options than laying rebar and also increases your pay scale. Take my fiance. She's not doing anything with her major and has a job that someone could get with a HS diploma (mainly because there's no jobs within her field in Athens and neither of us really want to move closer to ATL so she can commute). Anyway, she was hired into that position where the HS diploma person would have needed to work for 3-4 years before being promoted into that spot. She also makes 10k more than a person with a HS diploma would receive in her position... plus, she might be getting a pretty big promotion in a couple of days.

I agree with everyone's comments about needing "ditch diggers"...we really have too many people going to four year colleges...and need lots more to go to technicial schools, etc...

I have a friend who for a couple of years argued with his son...who did not want to go to college, but to become an auto mechanic...

The friend gave in, paid for his son to go to a technician school, and the son is now making good money and is moving up at a dealership fixing today's computerized cars...

We do need that type too...

Certainly not everyone wants to be a ditch digger, but we don't need 80 million psychology and marketing majors that end up selling insurance or being a pee on low level manager at a rental car place either. Especially when we have a graying of the workforce in the trades and no where near enough kidsin the pipeline to replace them. Electricians, plumbers and pipefitters, line workers etc are all in high demand right now (and about to get even higher) and make real good money without having 60K in student loan debt.

D1B wrote:Should be free to all american citizens. All foreign student should pay a fortune.

Our country needs to do this.

Discuss..

Subsidized, maybe. Free? No.

Gotta put something in to take something out. I am not talking about what's "fair" for society, although that is also an issue. The students themselves will come away better for having made the commitment with their own resources for something important. If it's "free," it is too often taken for granted and not properly cherished and appreciated.

D1B wrote:Should be free to all american citizens. All foreign student should pay a fortune.

Our country needs to do this.

Discuss..

Free = Cheap

Lessens the value of a college diploma.
Would take the value of a degree from Appy to GED levels

Baldy wrote:

D1B wrote:Should be free to all american citizens. All foreign student should pay a fortune.

Our country needs to do this.

Discuss..

Free = Cheap

Lessens the value of a college diploma.
Would take the value of a degree from Appy to GED levels

How's life in the glass house, Baldy?

ASUG8 wrote:

Baldy wrote:
Free = Cheap

Lessens the value of a college diploma.
Would take the value of a degree from Appy to GED levels

How's life in the glass house, Baldy?

Plexiglass

Col Hogan wrote:If by free you mean there's nothing to pay back...then no, I totally disagree...

Someone has to pay for it...last time I checked those college profs don't teach out of the goodness of their hearts...same with the support staffs...and the buildings need upkeep...etc...

Now, if you want to propose a system where a person who can't afford a college education, but qualifies for college, can get their education with some kind of payback system...then I'm willing to listen, and most likely support...

Just as the military will offer someone a 4-year scholarship through ROTC in exchange for 4 years of service, there are loads of civilian (Federal/state/local) services that could benefit by a similar program...a four years of SUCCESSFUL college education, in exchange for four years of service...

For example, if your degree is in city planning, you will be assigned to a city/state planning agency somewhere in the country where you will do appropriate city/community planning work...

If your degree is in music, you could be assigned to teach music at a high school somewhere in the country where a need has been identified...

If you fail to meet your mandatory work requirement, you then owe for your education...you meet the requirement, and after your four years are complete, you are free to move where ever and work for who ever you can get a job with...

NOTHING IS FREE!!!

South Carolina will pay for your degree if you qualify and teach 5 years in a high needs area.

GannonFan wrote:Don't worry, we're already heading that direction. Soon we'll cap repayments of student loans at 10 years max, and if you don't have a job that will pay you enough to pay back your loans you won't have to pay them back. The government is the final backer on all college loans so we'll just absorb the cost like we do today.

Pretty easy to see why college tuitions have sky rocketed - because they can. They go up by incredible percentages, and having been doing so for a decade, and still more and more people go to college and government provides more and more funding to allow them to afford it. It's a golden time to be a college or university - there's an unlimited amount of money to scoop up and they are doing it with likely no end in sight.

I maybe mistaken, but what i've bolded is already occurring, at least through the South Carolina Student Loan. I'll have to double check.

I don't see the present system as "broken"..
Colleges and Universities are packed beyond capacity with even average institutions receiving 10 times more applicants then they can churn through the meat grinder

So a percentage of students are stupid enough to graduate with $100K in loan debt...
My guess this same person would accumulate similar debt left to their own devices in the free market

Mr. Coffee says: Meh.. things are fine

Chizzang wrote:I don't see the present system as "broken"..
Colleges and Universities are packed beyond capacity with even average institutions receiving 10 times more applicants then they can churn through the meat grinder

So a percentage of students are stupid enough to graduate with $100K in loan debt...
My guess this same person would accumulate similar debt left to their own devices in the free market

Mr. Coffee says: Meh.. things are fine

I agree and disagree. Too many people are getting in and graduating I agree.


However those of us who are going to school for a reason other than getting a degree to get one are getting stuck with 100K of debt and are getting fucked in the ass for no reason.

clenz wrote:

Chizzang wrote:I don't see the present system as "broken"..
Colleges and Universities are packed beyond capacity with even average institutions receiving 10 times more applicants then they can churn through the meat grinder

So a percentage of students are stupid enough to graduate with $100K in loan debt...
My guess this same person would accumulate similar debt left to their own devices in the free market

Mr. Coffee says: Meh.. things are fine

I agree and disagree. Too many people are getting in and graduating I agree.


However those of us who are going to school for a reason other than getting a degree to get one are getting stuck with 100K of debt and are getting fucked in the ass for no reason.

oh contrare mon frere: On the contrary my friend
If you're getting fucked in the ass, there's a reason...

D1B wrote:Should be free to all american citizens. All foreign student should pay a fortune.

Our country needs to do this.

Discuss..

Terrible terrible idea. The quality of education would go right down the crapper.

I know Georgia subsidizes college education through the HOPE scholarship funded through the state lottery. What I don't understand is how these dumb asses mess that up. I've met a bunch of kids who come through here with the HOPE scholarship only to lose it. You only have to keep a 3.0.

I also know the state of Georgia is cutting tons of money from the university systems budgets... UGA is taking the biggest hit and will be cutting the number of incoming students and will need to cut over 1,000 jobs. The same goes for a lot of other Georgia universities... haven't seen anything mentioned about GSU cuts though. The state probably figures they're already at rock bottom anyway and that most students go on to become ditch diggers or convicts anyway.