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Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:32 am
by blueballs
Here's an example of what every American should be pissed about:
JOE LEGAL vs. JOSE ILLEGAL
You have two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal". Both families have two parents, two children, and live in Arizona .
Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes $25.00 per hour with taxes deducted.
Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".
Ready? Now pay attention...
Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has $31,231.00.
Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or $31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00.
Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for his family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $24,031.00.
Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.
Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.
Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps and welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.
Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $9,631.00.
Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month federal rent subsidy. Jose Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $ 31,200.00.
Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for homeowner/car/life insurance. Joe Legal now has $7,231.00.
Jose Illegal says, "We don't need no stinking insurance!" and still has $31,200.00.
Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc.
Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, and what he sends out of the country every month.
Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after
work.
Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.
Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get a government sponsored lunch.. Jose Illegal's children have an after school ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home.
Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services, but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.
Do you get it, now?
If you vote for or support any politician that supports illegal aliens... You are part of the problem!
Re: Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:01 am
by clenz
I don't know about all the numbers of the thread, but the gist of the post and the last sentence...bravo
Re: Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:07 am
by ALPHAGRIZ1
EXACTLY!!!
This is why I have been saying tax the poor and make them accountable and pay their fair share. Very, very few people should ride for free.
Re: Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:59 am
by dbackjon
So no whites are here illegally?
1) Arizona is a non-union state. Joe was making $15/hour with little or no benefits, and would be eligible for anything that Jose is making. And there are no free medical/dental clinics in Arizona
2) Arizona has strict workforce rules (and enforcement). Even if Jose had forged papers, more likely than not he is paying social security taxes, income taxes, etc. He has auto insurance as well.
3) If Jose had no papers, he would not receive federal housing subsidies
4) If Jose had no papers, he would not receive food stamps
Joe construction worker in Arizona's kids would qualify for free lunches as well, because he is not making $25/hour.
CHAIN E-MAIL FAIL
Re: Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:34 am
by JMU DJ
Not to break balls here
... but Illegals can't obtain welfare or food stamps. Only through false documentation can they.
... Illegals pay sales tax, and contrary to the chain email provided, most pay into social security (which they will never get back unless they become citizens and then pay in for another 10 years minimum) and also pay income tax.
... US born children of illegals, who are documented and are citizens, can obtain medicaid and state children health insurance, not the Illegal parents. So this would go to your "anchor" baby, is a child born in the US really a US citizen argument.
... Assistance obtained for families containing US citizens with an Illegal head of household is less than 1%, compared to the 5% "native" average.
... the cost to enforce immigrations laws and deport illegals is estimated to cost more per year than the entire annual budget of the DHS.
... it's the emergency medical care and cost of public education where most of the money is lost.
... GAO estimates that over $1.3 billion is lost in fraudulent claims for unemployment. Only $30 million is estimated to be paid to Illegal aliens, or %2 of the fraudulent claims and less than 0.001% of total claims.
I have no problem trying to rectify these issues, enforcing/reforming/being stricter with illegal immigration, welfare reform, tighter regulation of unemployment, etc. Most of the monetary problems we have with the system come from "Natives" abusing the system, not illegals. I'm more worried about the number of citizens (and I currently know some of these people), who are knowingly abusing the system and have no problem with it.
Re: Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:34 am
by ALPHAGRIZ1
White illegals are a very small fraction (under 400k) of the 20 million illegals already in this country and of the 10k that come into our country everyday.
But then again you already knew that.
Re: Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:43 am
by ALPHAGRIZ1
JMU DJ wrote:Not to break balls here
... but Illegals can't obtain welfare or food stamps. Only through false documentation can they.
Thank god we know this would never happen!!
... Illegals pay sales tax, and contrary to the chain email provided, most pay into social security (which they will never get back unless they become citizens and then pay in for another 10 years minimum) and also pay income tax.
Can you post the link you got your Dem talking points from? Also since this is a version of somebody trying to say its OK they are here ILLEGALLY because they help with sales tax, that side is a bunch of assholes and maybe even accessories to a crime
... US born children of illegals, who are documented and are citizens, can obtain medicaid and state children health insurance, not the Illegal parents. So this would go to your "anchor" baby, is a child born in the US really a US citizen argument. No problem with the kids, but DEFINITELY send the parents back home and let them become legal citizens you know lawfully
... Assistance obtained for families containing US citizens with an Illegal head of household is less than 1%, compared to the 5% "native" average. Its higher than 1% but they use that number since it looks good
... the cost to enforce immigrations laws and deport illegals is estimated to cost more per year than the entire annual budget of the DHS. Then cut education and welfare and increase the budget
... it's the emergency medical care and cost of public education where most of the money is lost.
Public education is an incredible waste of money for what we get, agreed.
... GAO estimates that over $1.3 billion is lost in fraudulent claims for unemployment. Only $30 million is estimated to be paid to Illegal aliens, or %2 of the fraudulent claims and less than 0.001% of total claims.
another justification for people being here ILLEGALLY, people that make this argument are assholes and may even be accessories to a crime.
I have no problem trying to rectify these issues, enforcing/reforming/being stricter with illegal immigration, welfare reform, tighter regulation of unemployment, etc. Most of the monetary problems we have with the system come from "Natives" abusing the system, not illegals. I'm more worried about the number of citizens (and I currently know some of these people), who are knowingly abusing the system and have no problem with it.
Re: Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:57 am
by mainejeff
Re: Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:41 am
by JMU DJ
... and you can provide sources for your Repub chain mail Sprout, or are things that are inherently known to all too?
You have evidence that a majority don't pay taxes or is that just conjecture and hearsay?
But here ya go for paying taxes and social security:
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/87xx/doc8711 ... ration.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/busin ... 83&ei=5090" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:45 am
by blueballs
Y'all are all aware that there is a black market for buying and selling social security numbers, right?
Re: Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:46 am
by dbackjon
blueballs wrote:Y'all are all aware that there is a black market for buying and selling social security numbers, right?
And if they have one, they are still paying taxes, so that blows a hole in your "argument"
Re: Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:52 am
by AZGrizFan
dbackjon wrote:blueballs wrote:Y'all are all aware that there is a black market for buying and selling social security numbers, right?
And if they have one, they are still paying taxes, so that blows a hole in your "argument"
Ya'll are aware that "having" a social security number doesn't mean they gave it to their employer, aren't you?
Re: Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:54 am
by dbackjon
AZGrizFan wrote:dbackjon wrote:
And if they have one, they are still paying taxes, so that blows a hole in your "argument"
Ya'll are aware that "having" a social security number doesn't mean they gave it to their employer, aren't you?
if the employer didn't ask for it, then the employer is breaking laws than have always existed.
Re: Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:56 am
by AZGrizFan
dbackjon wrote:AZGrizFan wrote:
Ya'll are aware that "having" a social security number doesn't mean they gave it to their employer, aren't you?
if the employer didn't ask for it, then the employer is breaking laws than have always existed.
OMG. How could that EVER happen?
Maybe the employer is using THIS logic: If the US government is going to ignore their own laws regarding protecting our borders and let these folks across, then I'm going to ignore the law that requires me to check their immigration status.
Re: Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:08 am
by dbackjon
AZGrizFan wrote:dbackjon wrote:
if the employer didn't ask for it, then the employer is breaking laws than have always existed.
OMG. How could that EVER happen?
Maybe the employer is using THIS logic: If the US government is going to ignore their own laws regarding protecting our borders and let these folks across, then I'm going to ignore the law that requires me to check their immigration status.
So once again you are absolving a BUSINESS of any responsibility.
And the US Government spending billions defending the border. Can they do more? Sure. But if there were no employers giving them jobs, then they would not be here.
And if an employer is not asking for SS# to avoid paying SS taxes, they probably don't care about the status of the worker...
Re: Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:12 am
by ALPHAGRIZ1
And your absolving the ILLEGALS of any responsibility.
Re: Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:14 am
by grizzaholic
ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:And your absolving the ILLEGALS of any responsibility.
But Alpha, it is the govt's responsibility to keep them out, not the other way around. Once they are here illegally they don't have to follow rules until they get caught.
Re: Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:16 am
by AZGrizFan
dbackjon wrote:
So once again you are absolving a BUSINESS of any responsibility.
And the US Government spending billions defending the border. Can they do more? Sure. But if there were no employers giving them jobs, then they would not be here.
And if an employer is not asking for SS# to avoid paying SS taxes, they probably don't care about the status of the worker...
You absolve the government, I absolve businesses. The difference is, ONE of these two entities needs to make a LIVING.
Re: Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:21 am
by dbackjon
AZGrizFan wrote:dbackjon wrote:
So once again you are absolving a BUSINESS of any responsibility.
And the US Government spending billions defending the border. Can they do more? Sure. But if there were no employers giving them jobs, then they would not be here.
And if an employer is not asking for SS# to avoid paying SS taxes, they probably don't care about the status of the worker...
You absolve the government, I absolve businesses. The difference is, ONE of these two entities needs to make a LIVING.
They must not teach reading comprehension at Idaho.
I am not absolving Government. Can the Feds do more? Sure. Enforcing/beefing up sanctions against the employers would be a great start. Deploying more live bodies on the border is needed. Don't destroy the economies/governments of the sources of immigration. Instead of spending trillions in Iraq, spend it in the Western Hemisphere.
Re: Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:24 am
by grizzaholic
dbackjon wrote:AZGrizFan wrote:
You absolve the government, I absolve businesses. The difference is, ONE of these two entities needs to make a LIVING.
They must not teach reading comprehension at Idaho.
I am not absolving Government. Can the Feds do more? Sure. Enforcing/beefing up sanctions against the employers would be a great start. Deploying more live bodies on the border is needed. Don't destroy the economies/governments of the sources of immigration. Instead of spending trillions in Iraq, spend it in the Western Hemisphere.
So.....bomb Mexico?
Re: Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:28 am
by dbackjon
grizzaholic wrote:dbackjon wrote:
They must not teach reading comprehension at Idaho.
I am not absolving Government. Can the Feds do more? Sure. Enforcing/beefing up sanctions against the employers would be a great start. Deploying more live bodies on the border is needed. Don't destroy the economies/governments of the sources of immigration. Instead of spending trillions in Iraq, spend it in the Western Hemisphere.
So.....bomb Mexico?
No - that would kill gay and straight Mexicans alike, unless there is a "straight" bomb.
Re: Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:28 am
by grizzaholic
dbackjon wrote:grizzaholic wrote:
So.....bomb Mexico?
No - that would kill gay and straight Mexicans alike, unless there is a "straight" bomb.
Re: Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:31 am
by ALPHAGRIZ1
dbackjon wrote:
No - that would kill gay and straight Mexicans alike, unless there is a "straight" bomb.
Speaking of bombs..............................................see your joke.
Re: Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:01 am
by 89Hen
dbackjon wrote:blueballs wrote:Y'all are all aware that there is a black market for buying and selling social security numbers, right?
And if they have one, they are still paying taxes, so that blows a hole in your "argument"
Yeah, all these guys waiting to get picked up for work give their SS#'s to the guy in the pick-up so they can report their taxes. Oh Jon, you slay me.
Re: Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:21 am
by Skjellyfetti
89Hen wrote:
Yeah, all these guys waiting to get picked up for work give their SS#'s to the guy in the pick-up so they can report their taxes. Oh Jon, you slay me.
Poor white manual laborers do the same thing...
