Senate To Debate Eliminating Constitution

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travelinman67
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Senate To Debate Eliminating Constitution

Post by travelinman67 »

Pass Cap and Trade, or revoke the constitution: Both wind up with same result...a veritable anarchial market, socialist regional governments, complete establishment of feudalistic national social class system more akin to the Marxist model of 'capitalism' where the elites control the means of production and the 'middle class' become defacto slaves.

Cap and Trade will fail for three reasons:
1) Energy market mechnisms are not in place to successfully support as currently proposed.
2) Resulting costs are excessively high and cannot be justified during a recession. If the bill is brought back after the economy stabilizes, which most economists are predicting will take 20-40+ months, the scientists who have already debunked AGW, will have become so vocal, the alleged notion of "consensus" will have evaporated at which time ANY MENTION OF A "GREEN" BILL THAT WOULD COST TAXPAYERS WILL BE MET WITH VOTER OPPOSITION.
3) Political horsetrading not going well for the shakedown artists on both sides of the aisle. From a political perspective, the Cap and Trade bill was the Golden Goose for both parties. Virtually identical to a 'tax reform' bill, the Cap and Trade afforded both political parties the opportunity to shake down every PAC and industry in the U.S. seeking favorable exemptions and amendments. Several key Senators have already stated that if they cannot attach amendments to the benefit of political supporters, they will not support the bill. Ergo, getting all the Senators to draw a line in the sand where they'll discontinue further extortion from lobbyists and constituent industries, is nowhere in sight.

Below are discussions of the first two major problems created by Cap and Trade: Shortage of 'carbon-free' energy alternatives, and excessively high cost via 'backdoor' taxes and the creation of government bureaucracies whose vestment lies in the continuation of the taxation rather than the good of the U.S. social or political entity.

(The article is being included in it's entirety as the Google link to the article was killed after 23 hours ...surprise! Cached link is shown)

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:Vn ... cd=2&gl=us

Why Cap-And-Trade Won't Work
Paul Cicio 05.30.08, 6:30 PM ET

Paul Cicio

Thanks to the aggressive timing of greenhouse gas reduction targets in the Warner-Lieberman bill--which the Senate will start to debate Monday--that calls for 2005 carbon emission levels starting in 2012, the U.S. can anticipate a massive switch from coal to natural gas by the power industry.

More critically, the bill, which also calls on companies to reduce their carbon emissions by about 66% by 2050, will drive up both the demand and the price of natural gas (a low-carbon alternative) to unprecedented levels, which will in turn further erode the number of U.S. manufacturing jobs.

Limited natural gas supply capacity will pit power-sector purchases in direct competition with demand from the residential, commercial and farm sectors.

The problem with the bill, which was originally sponsored by Sen. Joseph Lieberman, D-Conn., and Sen. Mark Warner, D-Va., is this: Simply setting a cap on carbon emissions does nothing to remove the barriers to greater natural gas supply. There is nothing in the bill that will stop a potential national crisis--one that is already getting underway--as companies struggle to obey these carbon constraints.

The lack of low-carbon energy alternatives for power generation (at least until new nuclear and coal-fired power plants with carbon capture to reduce emissions become more commonplace) means that natural gas is the default low-carbon energy option. In fact, none of the potential low-carbon energy alternatives except natural gas will be available by 2012, the year the bill first imposes these stringent limits.

Energy efficiency and conservation will be helpful, but those measures will not prevent the crisis that will ensue when companies are forced to decrease their emissions.

Because natural-gas-fired power generation is setting the marginal price for electricity in a growing portion of the country, as natural gas prices go up, so will the price of electricity. Homeowners, farmers and manufacturers could pay exorbitant prices, multiples higher than government forecasts.

It will make little difference, though, to most electric utilities if the price of natural gas goes up. Most state public service commissions readily approve an automatic pass-through for energy costs to the rate payer. That means utility companies won't be affected--but residential, commercial and industrial consumers will. In the simplest terms, your electric bill is sure to grow.

Most U.S. manufacturers compete on a global basis, and will thus be severely cramped by further increases in natural gas prices. Natural gas prices are about 50% higher than a year ago. And because of a smaller supply, these elevated prices have already contributed to the loss of 3.3 million manufacturing jobs. That's 19.2% of all manufacturing jobs since 2000.

The bill actually provides financial incentives for an electric utility to switch from coal to natural gas. If a power generator does make the switch, it won't have to purchase carbon allowances, or it could make a profit by selling allowances to other companies who want to maintain high emissions levels.

But these perverse incentives will significantly increase electric power production from existing natural gas power plants that today are only being used for peaking power.

None of this would be a problem if we had plenty of natural gas production capacity, but U.S. production of the commodity is fragile, despite record well completions. According to Energy Information Administration data, U.S. dry production from 2000 to 2007 is flat, while total demand rose 9.8%. It's surprising but true: Today's domestic natural gas production isn't much different now than it was in the 1970s.

The lack of globally competitive natural gas prices is already causing our country to import larger quantities of our products and displace domestic production. Products like chemicals, fertilizer, steel, aluminum and paper can be made here--and open up well-paid jobs to workers in those industries--or we can increase our import dependency on other countries. Imports from 2003 to 2007 rose a staggering 78.3%, according to an analysis of 16 U.S. Census Bureau industry product categories.

In the end, the Warner-Lieberman bill could mark the final demise of the energy-intensive manufacturing industries that rely upon globally competitive energy to survive.


That's too bad, because these are the same industries that provide the enabling product solutions our country will need to meet the climate challenge in the long term, such as fiberglass insulation, lightweight materials for vehicles, plastic composites for wind turbines, silica for solar panels, fertilizer to expand crop supply and double-pane windows. Demand for these products will develop; it's a question of whether they will be produced domestically or imported.

Setting emission-reduction timetables is, no doubt, a good thing. But what the bill lacks is a mandate to track down cost-effective and reliable supplies of low-carbon energy. Instead, emission-reduction targets will be achieved only at the expense of consumers who will cringe at high electric bills and manufacturers who will send their jobs offshore--along with their excess carbon emissions--to be another country's problem.

Paul Cicio is president of the Industrial Energy Consumers of America.
Second issue discussed in following post.
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Re: Senate To Debate Eliminating Constitution

Post by travelinman67 »

The "cost" of Cap and Trade... (you Griz folks, need to read all the way to the bottom...)

...and for you DU talking point folks, these numbers have been heavily vetted by GBO...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1212362 ... d_outlooks

Wall Street Journal

Cap and Spend
June 2, 2008; Page A16
When cap and trade has been used in the past, such as to reduce acid rain, the allowances were usually distributed for free. A major difference this time is that the allowances will be auctioned off to covered businesses, which means imposing an upfront tax before the trade half of cap and trade even begins. It also means a gigantic revenue windfall for Congress.

Ms. Boxer expects to scoop up auction revenues of some $3.32 trillion by 2050. Yes, that's trillion. Her friends in Congress are already salivating over this new pot of gold. The way Congress works, the most vicious floor fights won't be over whether this is a useful tax to create, but over who gets what portion of the spoils. In a conference call with reporters last Thursday, Massachusetts Senator John Kerry explained that he was disturbed by the effects of global warming on "crustaceans" and so would be pursuing changes to ensure that New England lobsters benefit from some of the loot.

Of course most of the money will go to human constituencies, especially those with the most political clout. In the Boxer plan, revenues are allocated down to the last dime over the next half-century. Thus $802 billion would go for "relief" for low-income taxpayers, to offset the higher cost of lighting homes or driving cars. Ms. Boxer will judge if you earn too much to qualify.

There's also $190 billion to fund training for "green-collar jobs," which are supposed to replace the jobs that will be lost in carbon-emitting industries. Another $288 billion would go to "wildlife adaptation," whatever that means, and another $237 billion to the states for the same goal. Some $342 billion would be spent on international aid, $171 billion for mass transit, and untold billions for alternative energy and research – and we're just starting.

Ms. Boxer would only auction about half of the carbon allowances; she reserves the rest for politically favored supplicants. These groups might be Indian tribes (big campaign donors!), or states rewarded for "taking the lead" on emissions reductions like Ms. Boxer's California. Those lucky winners would be able to sell those allowances for cash. The Senator estimates that the value of the handouts totals $3.42 trillion. For those keeping track, that's more than $6.7 trillion in revenue handouts so far.

The bill also tries to buy off businesses that might otherwise try to defeat the legislation. Thus carbon-heavy manufacturers like steel and cement will get $213 billion "to help them adjust," while fossil-fuel utilities will get $307 billion in "transition assistance." No less than $34 billion is headed to oil refiners. Given that all of these folks have powerful Senate friends, they will probably extract a larger ransom if cap and trade ever does become law.
...and, some of the facts being shown to Congress during the debate...

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm? ... dfb894cc40
Key Excerpts from Senate White Paper: The Economics of America’s Climate Security Act of 2007:

-“Lieberman-Warner, if enacted, would likely devastate national and local economies in addition to putting a severe strain on the American family. The bill would reduce the nation’s Gross Domestic Product by 2.3% by only 2015 as modeled by CRA International. EPA finds that in 2030, GDP would be reduced by $983 billion and lowered even further by as much as $2.8 trillion in 2050…”

- “Under this legislation, America stands to lose millions of jobs. Greenspan forecasts such a problem announcing that ‘cap-and-trade systems or carbon taxes are likely to be popular only until real people lose real jobs as their consequence.’ Within only seven years of enactment, up to 1.2 million net jobs will be lost. Many of these will be going offshore, where restrictions on emissions are nonexistent, to countries such as China. Worse, by 2020 up to 3.4 million net jobs may be lost. Thousands more workers in Northeast Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Michigan could become jobless in an area already subjected to heavy layoffs. The Energy Information Administration (EIA) found that manufacturing output would drop by as much as 9.5% by 2030…”

-“Added on top of nationwide job losses, families will be hurt further at home with heating and electricity bills. EPA modeling of Lieberman-Warner shows that electric prices will rise 44% by 2030 over baseline predictions for that time period…”

-“Kevin Book, an energy research analyst for FBR Capital Market Corporation testified to the Environment and Public Works Committee that not only will consumers be hurt, but the poorest of those will be hurt the worst. Book stated in reference to S.2191 that ‘any effort to trigger conservation or environmental stewardship, even if price hikes are mediated through larger enterprises before they reach consumers, will affect the poorest Americans first…’”
...and the icing on the cake...the state by state analysis...here's Montana...

Image

...and a link for the rest of the states...

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm? ... n=58317149

...and more research data on Cap and Trade than anyone could absorb...

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm? ... 8ae9c9ebeb

Call you Senator. Ask them to stop while you still have a country to protect.
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Re: Senate To Debate Eliminating Constitution

Post by BigApp »

but, why should I? I just want to watch my LOGO-TV, listen to my iPod and play my wii.
My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.

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