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LISBON, Portugal – In his most thorough admission of the church's guilt in the clerical sex abuse scandal, Pope Benedict XVI said Tuesday the greatest persecution of the institution "is born from the sins within the church," and not from a campaign by outsiders.
The pontiff said the Catholic church has always been tormented by problems of its own making — a tendency that is being witnessed today "in a truly terrifying way."
"The church needs to profoundly relearn penitence, accept purification, learn forgiveness but also justice," he said.
"Forgiveness cannot substitute justice," he said.
Benedict was responding to journalists' questions, submitted in advance, aboard the papal plane as he flew to Portugal for a four-day visit.
In a shift from the Vatican's initial claim that the church was the victim of a campaign by the media and abortion rights and pro-gay marriage groups, Benedict said: "The greatest persecution of the church doesn't come from enemies on the outside but is born from the sins within the church."
Previously, he has taken to task the abusers themselves and, in the case of Ireland, the bishops who failed to stop them.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100511/ap_ ... tugal_pope" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Any comment Joltin Joe? Fucking asshole....

Have to give him credit for doing this now when Greece, the UK elections, and a very busy time in the US media have kept the Catholic Church out of the headlines for a while.

D1B wrote:Any comment Joltin Joe? **** *******....

Why do you care? I shared some comments with jon by PM. I think a lot of what the Pope said went over the reporter's heads.

JoltinJoe wrote:

D1B wrote:Any comment Joltin Joe? **** *******....

Why do you care? I shared some comments with jon by PM. I think a lot of what the Pope said went over the reporter's heads.

PM's are typically private. Now that you let the cat out of the bag and betrayed Jon's privacy while implying he's in agreement with whatever you said, privately, you might as well tell us.

associated press http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =126763063" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hey Joe, you'll appreciate this tidbit from the article:

Portugal is nearly 90 percent Catholic, but only around 2 million of its 10.6 million people describe themselves as practicing Catholics. In recent years, Portugal has drifted away from the church's teachings.

The catholic church is in great shape!

D1B wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:
Why do you care? I shared some comments with jon by PM. I think a lot of what the Pope said went over the reporter's heads.

PM's are typically private. Now that you let the cat out of the bag and betrayed Jon's privacy while implying he's in agreement with whatever you said, privately, you might as well tell us.

Where did I imply that he agreed with me?

D1B wrote:associated press http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =126763063" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hey Joe, you'll appreciate this tidbit from the article:

Portugal is nearly 90 percent Catholic, but only around 2 million of its 10.6 million people describe themselves as practicing Catholics. In recent years, Portugal has drifted away from the church's teachings.

The catholic church is in great shape!

I'd love to see the poll question which elicited that response. Willing to bet it was a loaded question and one which never used the term "practicing Catholic." I'm going to guess what they were really asked was do they attend Mass regularly, i.e., at least once a week or regularly take a sacrament (at least once a week).

If you were to ask, do you intend to baptize your children in the Church; or marry in the Church; or have last rites and a Church funeral, the number of "practicing Catholics" would be much higher. If you were to ask them simply: "Are you a practicing Catholic," the numbers would also be much higher.

JoltinJoe wrote:
If you were to ask, do you intend to baptize your children in the Church; or marry in the Church; or have last rites and a Church funeral, the number of "practicing Catholics" would be much higher. If you were to ask them simply: "Are you a practicing Catholic," the numbers would also be much higher.

So, you'd consider someone who is baptized, married, has last rites, and a funeral in the Catholic Church to be a "practicing Catholic"...? Really...?

It's pretty subjective to define what a "practicing Catholic" would be... but, I'd think attending Mass regularly and regularly taking a sacrement would have to fit in there somewhere.

But... it's subjective. Does the Church define what a "lapsed Catholic" is? Maybe that's where the poll got it's question.

Skjellyfetti wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:
If you were to ask, do you intend to baptize your children in the Church; or marry in the Church; or have last rites and a Church funeral, the number of "practicing Catholics" would be much higher. If you were to ask them simply: "Are you a practicing Catholic," the numbers would also be much higher.

So, you'd consider someone who is baptized, married, has last rites, and a funeral in the Catholic Church to be a "practicing Catholic"...? Really...?

It's pretty subjective to define what a "practicing Catholic" would be... but, I'd think attending Mass regularly and regularly taking a sacrement would have to fit in there somewhere.

But... it's subjective. Does the Church define what a "lapsed Catholic" is? Maybe that's where the poll got it's question.

The point is that the reporter should report the poll result, not characterize it. If the question was do you attend Mass at least once a week, and 25% say yes, then report that 25% of Catholics in Portugal say they attend Mass once a week. Don't say that 25% are "practicing Catholics." That's not what they were asked.

Seriously, I see this all the time when polling about Catholics gets reported. I can guarantee you if you were to ask Catholics are you a "practicing Catholic," about 75% of Catholics in the US would say yes. If you ask do you attend Mass at least once a week, 34% would say yes.

JoltinJoe wrote:

Skjellyfetti wrote:
So, you'd consider someone who is baptized, married, has last rites, and a funeral in the Catholic Church to be a "practicing Catholic"...? Really...?

It's pretty subjective to define what a "practicing Catholic" would be... but, I'd think attending Mass regularly and regularly taking a sacrement would have to fit in there somewhere.

But... it's subjective. Does the Church define what a "lapsed Catholic" is? Maybe that's where the poll got it's question.

The point is that the reporter should report the poll result, not characterize it. If the question was do you attend Mass at least once a week, and 25% say yes, then report that 25% of Catholics in Portugal say they attend Mass once a week. Don't say that 25% are "practicing Catholics." That's not what they were asked.

Seriously, I see this all the time when polling about Catholics gets reported. I can guarantee you if you were to ask Catholics are you a "practicing Catholic," about 75% of Catholics in the US would say yes. If you ask do you attend Mass at least once a week, 34% would say yes.

And 60% would be stretching the truth or flat out lying. People aint going to church and people sure as hell aint going to church more than once a week. Those that do (old or elderly) are rapidly disappearing.

Joe, my article was more about the popes press conference in Portugal. Curious of your thoughts that he went over the heads of the world wide press (AP, NPR, etc), again. Did they misquote or misinterpret again?

One would think he would try to be as clear as possible at this point. But your thoughts would be appreciated.

Celibacy for priests was never supposed to be a rule anyway. I'm no theology scholar, but I think the idea came from a priest in Spain and it took off from there. Eastern Orthodox priests are allowed to marry before entering the priesthood, and they have held closely to the early church more so than any other denomination. i don't see why the Catholic church doesn't overturn this rule, it isn't dogmatic law.

GSUhooligan wrote:Celibacy for priests was never supposed to be a rule anyway. I'm no theology scholar, but I think the idea came from a priest in Spain and it took off from there. Eastern Orthodox priests are allowed to marry before entering the priesthood, and they have held closely to the early church more so than any other denomination. i don't see why the Catholic church doesn't overturn this rule, it isn't dogmatic law.

I agree...in the world of big T traditions and little t traditions...this one is a little t...it could be changed tomorrow, and I feel would benefit the Church...

Col Hogan wrote:

GSUhooligan wrote:Celibacy for priests was never supposed to be a rule anyway. I'm no theology scholar, but I think the idea came from a priest in Spain and it took off from there. Eastern Orthodox priests are allowed to marry before entering the priesthood, and they have held closely to the early church more so than any other denomination. i don't see why the Catholic church doesn't overturn this rule, it isn't dogmatic law.

I agree...in the world of big T traditions and little t traditions...this one is a little t...it could be changed tomorrow, and I feel would benefit the Church...

+1

GSUhooligan wrote:Celibacy for priests was never supposed to be a rule anyway. I'm no theology scholar, but I think the idea came from a priest in Spain and it took off from there. Eastern Orthodox priests are allowed to marry before entering the priesthood, and they have held closely to the early church more so than any other denomination. i don't see why the Catholic church doesn't overturn this rule, it isn't dogmatic law.

The catholic church pretty much is a circus. It's theatre not unlike PT Barnum or Las Vegas. Its intention is always to wow people with dress, pomp and spectacle. Part of this, celebacy, is creating the impression their leaders and priests are seen by their victims as "otherworldly", divine, closer to god or more virtuous than us mortals. If people knew they were no different than the guy on the bus, the guy jerking off in a movie theatre or the serial rapist serving life in prison, they would not follow the church and the church would not get paid.$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

It's all about money. Jesus would be appaulled at the catholic church.

" Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them 'Rabbi.' "
– Matthew 23.5,7.

"The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God."
– Deuteronomy 22.5.

How did you fuckers get here? To this fucking hat!!! Seriously, what does this shit have to do with Jesus. One you cowards please answer.



Jesus supposedly washed feet and hung with lepers and the poor. Where do these fucking shoes that cost more than my house fit in?

What a fucking joke.

D1B wrote:

"neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God."
– Deuteronomy 22.5.

At least we finally know exactly what it was that turned you off of Christianity.

Deuteronomy 25:1
When men fight with one another, and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, then you shall cut off her hand.

When do the people of the world actually begin to embrace some kind of spiritual enlightenment..?
When will these giant organizations seek actual truth - instead of control shrouded ancient nonsensical mysticism - when do the giants actually come clean..?

Each human - one man - one relationship with god... personal and private - not a business model not a secret sect, not a giant ancient colossus of inhumane deceit based in fear and the hidden hand of power

The day we have 6.5 billion humans and 6.5 billion individual private relationships with God
That is is the day we have peace and true enlightenment

89Hen wrote:

D1B wrote:

At least we finally know exactly what it was that turned you off of Christianity.

Fuck you Hen. Coward motherfucker afraid to answer the tough questions, just like Dodger Joe.