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"Seventy-one percent (71%) of U.S. voters say the United States is a more positive force for good in the world today than the United Nations, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey.

...there’s a sharp difference of opinion between Mainstream voters and the Political Class. While 79% of Mainstream voters view America as a more positive force for good in the world today than the UN, just 45% of the Political Class agree. ..."

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ ... ot_so_sure" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Up yours, Barry!

The UN isn't a force at all. They're traffic cops with blue beanies.

Bonjour!

Do we have to choose one?

The UN pays lip service.

The U.S. throws money at problems.

At the leadership levels, neither one is very good at being a "Force for Good".

mainejeff wrote:Do we have to choose one?

The UN pays lip service.

The U.S. throws money at problems.

At the leadership levels, neither one is very good at being a "Force for Good".

You obviously don't have to choose a damm thing, make a commitment, or demonstrate any level of personal responsibility, mj.


Why change now?

Dumbest poll ever.

grizzaholic wrote:Dumbest poll ever.

You lose 8 to 1.

native wrote:

grizzaholic wrote:Dumbest poll ever.

You lose 8 to 1.

I voted for the USA not the UN but that still doesn't give you a win.

grizzaholic wrote:

native wrote:
You lose 8 to 1.

I voted for the USA not the UN but that still doesn't give you a win.

Cry me a river, clown face.

native wrote:

mainejeff wrote:Do we have to choose one?

The UN pays lip service.

The U.S. throws money at problems.

At the leadership levels, neither one is very good at being a "Force for Good".

You obviously don't have to choose a damm thing, make a commitment, or demonstrate any level of personal responsibility, mj.


Why change now?

Why does every damn CONK on here think that I don't take personal responsibility for anything????..........You don't know an effin thing about me, CONK douchebags.

native wrote:

grizzaholic wrote:
I voted for the USA not the UN but that still doesn't give you a win.

Cry me a river, clown face.

Don't you and weberwildcat have a few gay porns to shoot?

Especially if you're a multinational corporation who doesn't pay taxes.

If you're a dirt poor muslim Pakistani living on a 1.00/day who lost family members to collateral damage in a drone assault - not so much.

BTW, who is the political class?

No brainer... without the US there is no UN.

kalm wrote:Especially if you're a multinational corporation who doesn't pay taxes.

If you're a dirt poor muslim Pakistani living on a 1.00/day who lost family members to collateral damage in a drone assault - not so much.

BTW, who is the political class?

The dirt poor muslim Pakistani living on $1.00/day has India, Afghanistan, and China to worry about as much as he does the US.

Cluck U wrote:

kalm wrote:Especially if you're a multinational corporation who doesn't pay taxes.

If you're a dirt poor muslim Pakistani living on a 1.00/day who lost family members to collateral damage in a drone assault - not so much.

BTW, who is the political class?

The dirt poor muslim Pakistani living on $1.00/day has India, Afghanistan, and China to worry about as much as he does the US.

Really? How many Pakistani's have died at the hands of those armies in the last 8 years?

kalm wrote:

Cluck U wrote:
The dirt poor muslim Pakistani living on $1.00/day has India, Afghanistan, and China to worry about as much as he does the US.

Really? How many Pakistani's have died at the hands of those armies in the last 8 years?

That depends...how many were visting relatives in Kashmir?

And how many Pakistani's, or their daughters, support the spread of the Taliban? And how many Pakistani's are going to be able to get good paying jobs when India and China are next door?

Cluck U wrote:

kalm wrote:
Really? How many Pakistani's have died at the hands of those armies in the last 8 years?

That depends...how many were visting relatives in Kashmir?

And how many Pakistani's, or their daughters, support the spread of the Taliban? And how many Pakistani's are going to be able to get good paying jobs when India and China are next door?

This is all an aside from the point I was making, but I think Kashmir has been relatively quiet for awhile now.

As for supporting the Taliban, I'm not sure. For a great read on the subject, check out Greg Mortenson's book "Three Cups of Tea". He's a U.S. citizen, now being consulted by the military, who's built over 80 some schools in the region. He's been in a race with the radicals for the last decade building schools that provide a moderate, secular education, including for little girls, versus the Saudi funded Madrasas. In the areas he's been successful, the locals are rejecting the Taliban.

grizzaholic wrote:

native wrote:
Cry me a river, clown face.

Don't you and weberwildcat have a few gay porns to shoot?

I don't even know what you are trying to say.

kalm wrote:

Cluck U wrote:
That depends...how many were visting relatives in Kashmir?

And how many Pakistani's, or their daughters, support the spread of the Taliban? And how many Pakistani's are going to be able to get good paying jobs when India and China are next door?

This is all an aside from the point I was making, but I think Kashmir has been relatively quiet for awhile now.

As for supporting the Taliban, I'm not sure. For a great read on the subject, check out Greg Mortenson's book "Three Cups of Tea". He's a U.S. citizen, now being consulted by the military, who's built over 80 some schools in the region. He's been in a race with the radicals for the last decade building schools that provide a moderate, secular education, including for little girls, versus the Saudi funded Madrasas. In the areas he's been successful, the locals are rejecting the Taliban.

Kashmir "relatively quiet"...2008....lowest civilian casualties in 20 years...89.

Pakistan has been busy within its own borders.

Your point was the the US isn't seen a a good force and you used an isolated example of why someone would have cause to dislike the US. In our own cities, lots of people hate cops...doesn't mean cops aren't viewed by the majority as a good force.

In the meantime, Pakistanis have issues of their own...and they have neighbors that pose legitimate threats to their economic, physical, cultural, and religious way of life.

kalm wrote:

Cluck U wrote:
That depends...how many were visting relatives in Kashmir?

And how many Pakistani's, or their daughters, support the spread of the Taliban? And how many Pakistani's are going to be able to get good paying jobs when India and China are next door?

This is all an aside from the point I was making, but I think Kashmir has been relatively quiet for awhile now.

As for supporting the Taliban, I'm not sure. For a great read on the subject, check out Greg Mortenson's book "Three Cups of Tea". He's a U.S. citizen, now being consulted by the military, who's built over 80 some schools in the region. He's been in a race with the radicals for the last decade building schools that provide a moderate, secular education, including for little girls, versus the Saudi funded Madrasas. In the areas he's been successful, the locals are rejecting the Taliban.

Cluck U wrote:

kalm wrote:
This is all an aside from the point I was making, but I think Kashmir has been relatively quiet for awhile now.

As for supporting the Taliban, I'm not sure. For a great read on the subject, check out Greg Mortenson's book "Three Cups of Tea". He's a U.S. citizen, now being consulted by the military, who's built over 80 some schools in the region. He's been in a race with the radicals for the last decade building schools that provide a moderate, secular education, including for little girls, versus the Saudi funded Madrasas. In the areas he's been successful, the locals are rejecting the Taliban.

Kashmir "relatively quiet"...2008....lowest civilian casualties in 20 years...89.

Pakistan has been busy within its own borders.

Your point was the the US isn't seen a a good force and you used an isolated example of why someone would have cause to dislike the US. In our own cities, lots of people hate cops...doesn't mean cops aren't viewed by the majority as a good force.

In the meantime, Pakistanis have issues of their own...and they have neighbors that pose legitimate threats to their economic, physical, cultural, and religious way of life.

Thanks. Link on the casualty figures?

My point is that quite a few innocent muslims have died as a direct result of our actions. We can debate whether or not those deaths are worth it in the grander scheme of things, but these examples are not isolated or a very good way to spread freedom and democracy.

kalm wrote:

Cluck U wrote:
Kashmir "relatively quiet"...2008....lowest civilian casualties in 20 years...89.

Pakistan has been busy within its own borders.

Your point was the the US isn't seen a a good force and you used an isolated example of why someone would have cause to dislike the US. In our own cities, lots of people hate cops...doesn't mean cops aren't viewed by the majority as a good force.

In the meantime, Pakistanis have issues of their own...and they have neighbors that pose legitimate threats to their economic, physical, cultural, and religious way of life.

Thanks. Link on the casualty figures?

My point is that quite a few innocent muslims have died as a direct result of our actions. We can debate whether or not those deaths are worth it in the grander scheme of things, but these examples are not isolated or a very good way to spread freedom and democracy.

Better to let them throw acid on schoolgirls' faces and destroy priceless, irreplacable, centuries-old religious artifacts?

Nonetheless, your point is well taken, kalm. No matter how well intentioned, our foreign policy overreach has blowback consequences.

At the end of the day, the U.S. is still a force for good simply by existing as a Constitutional Republic.

native wrote:

kalm wrote:
Thanks. Link on the casualty figures?

My point is that quite a few innocent muslims have died as a direct result of our actions. We can debate whether or not those deaths are worth it in the grander scheme of things, but these examples are not isolated or a very good way to spread freedom and democracy.

Better to let them throw acid on schoolgirls' faces and destroy priceless, irreplacable, centuries-old religious artifacts?

Nonetheless, your point is well taken, kalm. No matter how well intentioned, our foreign policy overreach has blowback consequences.

At the end of the day, the U.S. is still a force for good simply by existing as a Constitutional Republic.

I want to agree, but the cynic in me makes me sometimes wonder if the effort is worth it.

kalm wrote:

native wrote:
Better to let them throw acid on schoolgirls' faces and destroy priceless, irreplacable, centuries-old religious artifacts?

Nonetheless, your point is well taken, kalm. No matter how well intentioned, our foreign policy overreach has blowback consequences.

At the end of the day, the U.S. is still a force for good simply by existing as a Constitutional Republic.

I want to agree, but the cynic in me makes me sometimes wonder if the effort is worth it.

I had completely forgotten that we're over there because the bad guys throw acid on school girls. How's that pipeline coming, anyway?


I think we mean well most of the time, with the exception of the Bush administration, but sometimes we're more like a farce for good. Dead or Alive, civilians killed by drones, thinking there is a military solution to these decade-long clusterfucks, that kind of stuff doesn't help at all.

houndawg wrote:

kalm wrote:
I want to agree, but the cynic in me makes me sometimes wonder if the effort is worth it.

I had completely forgotten that we're over there because the bad guys throw acid on school girls. How's that pipeline coming, anyway?

I think we mean well most of the time, with the exception of the Bush administration, but sometimes we're more like a farce for good. Dead or Alive, civilians killed by drones, thinking there is a military solution to these decade-long clusterfucks, that kind of stuff doesn't help at all.

Bush is only one in a long line of over-reaching do-gooders, mostly dems.