Short-termism

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kalm
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Short-termism

Post by kalm »

Socialism for BP, capitalism for the rest of us. :thumb:

Published on Tuesday, June 8, 2010 by The Guardian/UK
The Oil Firms' Profits Ignore the Real Costs
The energy industry has long dumped its damage and, like the banks, made scant provision against disaster. Time to pay up
by George Monbiot


Despite an angry letter from two US senators and a warning from Barack Obama about spending big money on their shareholders while nickel-and-diming coastal people, despite the fact that it has no idea what its total liabilities in the Gulf of Mexico will be, BP seems to be planning to pay a dividend this year. It's likely to amount to more than $10bn. As the two senators noted, by moving money "off the company's books and into investors' pockets", BP "will make it much more difficult to repay the US government and American communities".

Pollution has been defined as a resource in the wrong place. That's also a pretty good description of the company's profits. The great plumes of money that have been bursting out of the company's accounts every year are not BP's to give away. They consist, in part or in whole, of the externalised costs the company has failed to pay, and which the rest of society must carry.

Does this sound familiar? In the 10 years preceding the crash, the banks posted and disposed of stupendous profits. When their risky ventures failed, they discovered that they hadn't made sufficient provision against future costs, and had to go begging from the state. They had classified their annual surplus as profit and given it to their investors and staff long before it was safe to do so.

Last week the British government bumped into another consequence of failing to take future costs into account. Chris Huhne, the new secretary of state for energy and climate change, revealed that nuclear decommissioning liabilities will cost the government £4bn more than it was expecting to pay over the next three years. This will cancel out two-thirds of the vicious cuts the government has announced and swallow most of his department's budget. As Huhne pointed out: "It is a classic example of short-termism. I cannot think of a better example of a failure to take a decision in the short run costing the taxpayer a hell of a lot more in the long run."

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/06/08" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Short-termism

Post by Chizzang »

I believe the correct response to this article is something like: No duh...

Of course BP will pay dividends before it cleans up it's mess

1) corporations have more rights than citizens - and that's just a plain old fact
2) Business first, accountability second
3) Big Business tells our government what to do, not the other way around




Why is this just now becoming "News" :coffee: Seriously... this is exactly how we got where we are today
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Re: Short-termism

Post by mainejeff »

*Yawn*

:coffee:
Go Black Bears!
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Re: Short-termism

Post by kalm »

mainejeff wrote:*Yawn*

:coffee:
I know, I know. There just happens to be a whole bunch of "free market" conks out there who need to get in touch with their socialistic side. :thumb: :rofl:
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Re: Short-termism

Post by Baldy »

kalm wrote:
mainejeff wrote:*Yawn*

:coffee:
I know, I know. There just happens to be a whole bunch of "free market" conks out there who need to get in touch with their socialistic side. :thumb: :rofl:
We've been "getting in touch" with out socialistic side for about 100 years now. Imagine your sphincter getting in touch with the business end of a baseball bat. You might like it, but thanks, I'll pass. :roll:
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Re: Short-termism

Post by kalm »

Baldy wrote:
kalm wrote:
I know, I know. There just happens to be a whole bunch of "free market" conks out there who need to get in touch with their socialistic side. :thumb: :rofl:
We've been "getting in touch" with out socialistic side for about 100 years now. Imagine your sphincter getting in touch with the business end of a baseball bat. You might like it, but thanks, I'll pass. :roll:
You were on the short list of socialists I thought might comment. :nod:
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Re: Short-termism

Post by Chizzang »

None of them will comment because it can't be defended when exposed to the mountains of evidence...





:sleep:
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Re: Short-termism

Post by Baldy »

kalm wrote:
Baldy wrote: We've been "getting in touch" with out socialistic side for about 100 years now. Imagine your sphincter getting in touch with the business end of a baseball bat. You might like it, but thanks, I'll pass. :roll:
You were on the short list of socialists I thought might comment. :nod:
Sorry Comrade, I'll let you remain the cs.com spokesperson for socialistic economic theory. :thumb:
I'm actually looking forward to your next posting from the Bolshevik School of Economic Theory at commondreams.org. It's the gift that keeps giving. :lol:
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Re: Short-termism

Post by kalm »

Baldy wrote:
kalm wrote:
You were on the short list of socialists I thought might comment. :nod:
Sorry Comrade, I'll let you remain the cs.com spokesperson for socialistic economic theory. :thumb:
I'm actually looking forward to your next posting from the Bolshevik School of Economic Theory at commondreams.org. It's the gift that keeps giving. :lol:
C'mon, you're a "fiscal conservative", lets here how externalizing oil and banking industry risks is good for the deficit. :popcorn:
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Re: Short-termism

Post by Baldy »

kalm wrote:
Baldy wrote: Sorry Comrade, I'll let you remain the cs.com spokesperson for socialistic economic theory. :thumb:
I'm actually looking forward to your next posting from the Bolshevik School of Economic Theory at commondreams.org. It's the gift that keeps giving. :lol:
C'mon, you're a "fiscal conservative", lets here how externalizing oil and banking industry risks is good for the deficit. :popcorn:
:rofl:

Are you kidding me? There are no external risks. Remember, these companies are "too big to fail". :lol:

:ohno:
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Re: Short-termism

Post by kalm »

Baldy wrote:
kalm wrote:
C'mon, you're a "fiscal conservative", lets here how externalizing oil and banking industry risks is good for the deficit. :popcorn:
:rofl:

Are you kidding me? There are no external risks. Remember, these companies are "too big to fail". :lol:

:ohno:
Exactly! Their risks become socialized, they get picked up by the tax payer. Which is exactly the point of the article you were arguing with.

You're starting to get it. :thumb:
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Re: Short-termism

Post by Baldy »

kalm wrote:
Baldy wrote: :rofl:

Are you kidding me? There are no external risks. Remember, these companies are "too big to fail". :lol:

:ohno:
Exactly! Their risks become socialized, they get picked up by the tax payer. Which is exactly the point of the article you were arguing with.

You're starting to get it. :thumb:
I "got it" a long time ago. You still seem to have a long way to go, though. :ohno:
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Re: Short-termism

Post by kalm »

Baldy wrote:
kalm wrote:
Exactly! Their risks become socialized, they get picked up by the tax payer. Which is exactly the point of the article you were arguing with.

You're starting to get it. :thumb:
I "got it" a long time ago. You still seem to have a long way to go, though. :ohno:
Good boy. :thumb:

Now, what prevents companies from externalizing their risks on to the tax payer?
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Re: Short-termism

Post by Baldy »

kalm wrote:
Baldy wrote:
I "got it" a long time ago. You still seem to have a long way to go, though. :ohno:
Good boy. :thumb:

Now, what prevents companies from externalizing their risks on to the tax payer?
They can't, they don't hold that kind of power.
When a company or corporate entity gains the power to levy taxes, then you can say we live in a Corporatrocracy (or whatever silly name you gave it :rofl: ).
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Re: Short-termism

Post by Chizzang »

Baldy wrote:
kalm wrote:
Good boy. :thumb:

Now, what prevents companies from externalizing their risks on to the tax payer?
They can't, they don't hold that kind of power.
When a company or corporate entity gains the power to levy taxes, then you can say we live in a Corporatrocracy (or whatever silly name you gave it :rofl: ).

Are you drunk Baldness..? :wtf:
How many examples would you like me to point out where my TAXES are directly effected by corporate greed and mismanagement and fraud and corruption and political back-pocket stuffing etc. etc.

seriously... you are completely absolutely blind



jeezus... :roll:
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Re: Short-termism

Post by Baldy »

Chizzang wrote:
Baldy wrote:
They can't, they don't hold that kind of power.
When a company or corporate entity gains the power to levy taxes, then you can say we live in a Corporatrocracy (or whatever silly name you gave it :rofl: ).

Are you drunk Baldness..? :wtf:
How many examples would you like me to point out where my TAXES are directly effected by corporate greed and mismanagement and fraud and corruption and political back-pocket stuffing etc. etc.

seriously... you are completely absolutely blind



jeezus... :roll:
"Greed?" :rofl:

Please, be my guest and give me just one example where a corporation levied a tax against the citizens of the US. It never has happened and it never will because they aren't the ones with the power.

I see you and many others rail against those evil, nasty, dirty, disgusting "GREEDY" corporations because they get tax breaks, corporate welfare, or loopholes they get to walk around. How are they any different than many of the so-called "ordinary Americans" who go up to the government with their hand out wanting something for free? Where is the outrage for that behavior?

:coffee:
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Re: Short-termism

Post by Chizzang »

Baldy wrote:
Chizzang wrote:

Are you drunk Baldness..? :wtf:
How many examples would you like me to point out where my TAXES are directly effected by corporate greed and mismanagement and fraud and corruption and political back-pocket stuffing etc. etc.

seriously... you are completely absolutely blind



jeezus... :roll:
"Greed?" :rofl:

Please, be my guest and give me just one example where a corporation levied a tax against the citizens of the US. It never has happened and it never will because they aren't the ones with the power.

I see you and many others rail against those evil, nasty, dirty, disgusting "GREEDY" corporations because they get tax breaks, corporate welfare, or loopholes they get to walk around. How are they any different than many of the so-called "ordinary Americans" who go up to the government with their hand out wanting something for free? Where is the outrage for that behavior?

:coffee:
You're a bit literal and playing coy.. or you're not that bright
I don't hate corporations - I don't even really care... but I'm not blind and stupid
Clearly you didn't read the article or are just playing dumb

A BP owned and operated oil rig blows up and decimates the gulf and it's employee base...
Who's going to pay: Answer = Me and you, not BP

Or

Wall Street fraud and greed crash the system... Who's going to pay: Answer = Me and you, not AIG or Goldman


:coffee: No it's not a levied tax - but we pay - or please explain it otherwise for me...
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Re: Short-termism

Post by kalm »

Baldy wrote:
Chizzang wrote:

Are you drunk Baldness..? :wtf:
How many examples would you like me to point out where my TAXES are directly effected by corporate greed and mismanagement and fraud and corruption and political back-pocket stuffing etc. etc.

seriously... you are completely absolutely blind



jeezus... :roll:
"Greed?" :rofl:

Please, be my guest and give me just one example where a corporation levied a tax against the citizens of the US. It never has happened and it never will because they aren't the ones with the power.

I see you and many others rail against those evil, nasty, dirty, disgusting "GREEDY" corporations because they get tax breaks, corporate welfare, or loopholes they get to walk around. How are they any different than many of the so-called "ordinary Americans" who go up to the government with their hand out wanting something for free? Where is the outrage for that behavior?

:coffee:
Corporations aren't evil Baldy, they're not even a living thing (despite what dumbasses like Sam Alito think). In fact, it would be bad business to not take every possible advantage of the current system including soliciting favorable legislation in the form of tax breaks and deregulation.

I've got 40,000 lobbyists in Washington D.C. to back me up on this one. :nod:

Chizzy, I'm going for coy. :thumb:
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Re: Short-termism

Post by Chizzang »

kalm wrote:
Baldy wrote:
"Greed?" :rofl:

Please, be my guest and give me just one example where a corporation levied a tax against the citizens of the US. It never has happened and it never will because they aren't the ones with the power.

I see you and many others rail against those evil, nasty, dirty, disgusting "GREEDY" corporations because they get tax breaks, corporate welfare, or loopholes they get to walk around. How are they any different than many of the so-called "ordinary Americans" who go up to the government with their hand out wanting something for free? Where is the outrage for that behavior?

:coffee:
Corporations aren't evil Baldy, they're not even a living thing (despite what dumbasses like Sam Alito think). In fact, it would be bad business to not take every possible advantage of the current system including soliciting favorable legislation in the form of tax breaks and deregulation.

I've got 40,000 lobbyists in Washington D.C. to back me up on this one. :nod:

Chizzy, I'm going for coy. :thumb:
Of course...
Don't hate the player.. hate the game (well said Kalmness)




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Re: Short-termism

Post by Chizzang »

I have been reluctant to admit this on this forum...
I like corporatism so much I became incorporated about 2 years ago, actually it's the only way to take full advantage of America and the American system. Just being a citizen has it's limitations and a lot of accountability

To avoid a huge portion of accountability and responsibility Personal Incorporation is the answer

I've got some funny stories already in just 2 short years... I'll share them if anybody cares
but trust me: Being a regular old citizen is pretty stupid when compared to being a corporation



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