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http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... 2704.story

Another catholic archdiocese get's pounded. Here's the deposition from the scumbag cardinal. Shameful indeed.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/acr ... 583403.pdf It's actually a good read - an inside view of the corruption and moral bankruptsy of the catholic church. For many years the catholic church in america was a dirty old men's club. Pay your dues as a priest, play the part and you'll have unfettered access to all the young boys and toddlers you can possibly molest. You'll also enjoy the protection of the church, access to top notch scumbag lawyers and the ability to threaten children (boys and male toddlers) with eternal damnation if they tell someone.

After reading this, would you ever send your kid to a catholic school? It's abuse by itself filling your child's head with religious nonsense and taxing all their free time with church bullshit, then you send them, unprotected into the custody of child-molesters and at the very least, sexually repressed men, devoid of much life experience, socially awkward and driven insane by chastity?!?

D1B wrote:http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... 2704.story

Another catholic archdiocese get's pounded. Here's the deposition from the scumbag cardinal. Shameful indeed.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/acr ... 583403.pdf It's actually a good read - an inside view of the corruption and moral bankruptsy of the catholic church. For many years the catholic church in america was a dirty old men's club. Pay your dues as a priest, play the part and you'll have unfettered access to all the young boys and toddlers you can possibly molest. You'll also enjoy the protection of the church, access to top notch scumbag lawyers and the ability to threaten children (boys and male toddlers) with eternal damnation if they tell someone.

After reading this, would you ever send your kid to a catholic school? It's abuse by itself filling your child's head with religious nonsense and taxing all their free time with church bullshit, then you send them, unprotected into the custody of child-molesters and at the very least, sexually repressed men, devoid of much life experience, socially awkward and driven insane by chastity?!?

Completely serious question.

Based upon comments I've read in the past, I surmise that you and the Cap were sent to Catholic school at least in k-6 grades, and subsequently either attended or participated with the church after 6th grade.

This is not meant to provoke you, but merely a question to better understand your passionate mistrust of Catholicism: Were either of you, or someone you know, "victimized' by church employees. You can PM/email me if you prefer to keep this private.

D1B wrote:http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... 2704.story

Another catholic archdiocese get's pounded. Here's the deposition from the scumbag cardinal. Shameful indeed.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/acr ... 583403.pdf It's actually a good read - an inside view of the corruption and moral bankruptsy of the catholic church. For many years the catholic church in america was a dirty old men's club. Pay your dues as a priest, play the part and you'll have unfettered access to all the young boys and toddlers you can possibly molest. You'll also enjoy the protection of the church, access to top notch scumbag lawyers and the ability to threaten children (boys and male toddlers) with eternal damnation if they tell someone.

After reading this, would you ever send your kid to a catholic school? It's abuse by itself filling your child's head with religious nonsense and taxing all their free time with church bullshit, then you send them, unprotected into the custody of child-molesters and at the very least, sexually repressed men, devoid of much life experience, socially awkward and driven insane by chastity?!?

Good stuff Jeff. I was in Catholic school K-12, and these days the majority of them are filled with more laymen and women than clergy. The actions of these priests could've be avoided if they were never denied their basic, animal instincts. Celibacy is crazy. Just b/c 12 "apostles" weren't married(as far as we know) doesn't mean that modern day men should not be married.

I'm not a religious man by any means.

This may be the biggest black eye ever, on ANY religion. Including the "purges" of ancient times.

AZGrizFan wrote:This may be the biggest black eye ever, on ANY religion. Including the "purges" of ancient times.

I agree. Catholicism isn't alone in this scandel.

travelinman67 wrote:

D1B wrote:http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... 2704.story

Another catholic archdiocese get's pounded. Here's the deposition from the scumbag cardinal. Shameful indeed.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/acr ... 583403.pdf It's actually a good read - an inside view of the corruption and moral bankruptsy of the catholic church. For many years the catholic church in america was a dirty old men's club. Pay your dues as a priest, play the part and you'll have unfettered access to all the young boys and toddlers you can possibly molest. You'll also enjoy the protection of the church, access to top notch scumbag lawyers and the ability to threaten children (boys and male toddlers) with eternal damnation if they tell someone.

After reading this, would you ever send your kid to a catholic school? It's abuse by itself filling your child's head with religious nonsense and taxing all their free time with church bullshit, then you send them, unprotected into the custody of child-molesters and at the very least, sexually repressed men, devoid of much life experience, socially awkward and driven insane by chastity?!?

Completely serious question.

Based upon comments I've read in the past, I surmise that you and the Cap were sent to Catholic school at least in k-6 grades, and subsequently either attended or participated with the church after 6th grade.

This is not meant to provoke you, but merely a question to better understand your passionate mistrust of Catholicism: Were either of you, or someone you know, "victimized' by church employees. You can PM/email me if you prefer to keep this private.

You obviously have not payed close attention to my posts. We were in catholic school right up until high school. Never had a problem and what makes you think you would be a good steward of my private information? You're insane.

We were brought up catholic but we were also brought up to think for ourselves. Our parents gave up on forcing religion on us in high school. I don't hold them responsible, they were doing what they thought was best at the time. They are victims. All my siblings are non believers and to the best of my knowledge, none were raped or molested by catholic priests. We're honest and practical people. Religion is not honest and certainly not practical.

Perhaps your curiosity could be better satiated by figuring out how an educated, highly intellligent, grown man like yourself still believes in fairy tales and ghosts?

Sorry Tman, nothing happened and there's nothing wrong with me, at least related to this subject.

D1B wrote: Sorry Tman, nothing happened and there's nothing wrong with me, at least related to this subject.

Key words highlighted.

MarkCCU wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:This may be the biggest black eye ever, on ANY religion. Including the "purges" of ancient times.

I agree. Catholicism isn't alone in this scandel.

It is and it isn't. Here's the key differences.

The catholic church had an elaborate scheme to cover up abuse and silence victims. If a teacher abused a student and a colleague found out about it, that teacher was reported and thrown in prison. Not so, for a looooooong time in the church. In fact they were protected, transferred or retired to a posh catholic vineyard/monastery/pedophile retirement community in the Sonoma Valley. No other organization, outside of organized crime or corporate tax dodgers, even comes close to the level of secrecy and cover up than the church. They make Enron look like the Gates Foundation.

Second, and most important, the catholic church AINT SUPPOSED TO BE DOING THAT SHIT, NO ONE SHOULD, ESPECIALLY THEM! They are the foot soldiers of the mythical jesus for christ's sake. They claim moral authority then acitivly engage in a sophisticated scheme to molest boys and cover it up. This, with no regard for the victims. Their sole focus is and was on making sure the church doesn't take a hit.

Yeah sure there are some good churches. But take a look at the archdioceses that have been successfully sued - they are some of largest in the world (chicago, boston, portland, los angelos.....)

The sad thing is, this is only the tip of the iceberg. Just wait.

AZGrizFan wrote:

D1B wrote: Sorry Tman, nothing happened and there's nothing wrong with me, at least related to this subject.

Key words highlighted.

Hear that sound AZ? Listen closely, it's the sound of me ripping up my breast cancer donation check that I was about to send you.

(Seriously, email me w/paypal or address and I'll get it to you)

D1B wrote:

MarkCCU wrote: I agree. Catholicism isn't alone in this scandel.

It is and it isn't. Here's the key differences.

The catholic church had an elaborate scheme to cover up abuse and silence victims. If a teacher abused a student and a colleague found out about it, that teacher was reported and thrown in prison. Not so, for a looooooong time in the church. In fact they were protected, transferred or retired to a posh catholic vineyard/monastery/pedophile retirement community in the Sonoma Valley. No other organization, outside of organized crime or corporate tax dodgers, even comes close to the level of secrecy and cover up than the church. They make Enron look like the Gates Foundation.

Second, and most important, the catholic church AINT SUPPOSED TO BE DOING THAT SHIT, NO ONE SHOULD, ESPECIALLY THEM! They are the foot soldiers of the mythical jesus for christ's sake. They claim moral authority then acitivly engage in a sophisticated scheme to molest boys and cover it up. This, with no regard for the victims. Their sole focus is and was on making sure the church doesn't take a hit.
Yeah sure there are some good churches. But take a look at the archdioceses that have been successfully sued - they are some of largest in the world (chicago, boston, portland, los angelos.....)

The sad thing is, this is only the tip of the iceberg. Just wait.

THIS is why I made my statement. This isn't NAMBLA, for God's sake....it's the CATHOLIC CHURCH. There couldn't possibly be a worse PR nightmare for "the foot soldiers of the mythical jesus". I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that a long time ago, in a diocese far, far away, the FIRST case of molestation was uncovered. Someone made the ultimate decision at that time to just pay the molested off and make it go away....and this gave the sex-starved priests a "blank check" so to speak, to perform their evil and know that they weren't going to be taken public for fear of how it would make the church look. I think if the church had come down hard (no pun intended) on the FIRST offender...i.e., excommunication, prosecution, jailtime, etc., it would have changed the ultimate outcome.

D1B wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote: Key words highlighted.

Hear that sound AZ? Listen closely, it's the sound of me ripping up my breast cancer donation check that I was about to send you.

(Seriously, email me w/paypal or address and I'll get it to you)

it's thomas.martin@azcentralcu.org.

And thanks, D!

D1B wrote:http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... 2704.story

Another catholic archdiocese get's pounded. Here's the deposition from the scumbag cardinal. Shameful indeed.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/acr ... 583403.pdf It's actually a good read - an inside view of the corruption and moral bankruptsy of the catholic church. For many years the catholic church in america was a dirty old men's club. Pay your dues as a priest, play the part and you'll have unfettered access to all the young boys and toddlers you can possibly molest. You'll also enjoy the protection of the church, access to top notch scumbag lawyers and the ability to threaten children (boys and male toddlers) with eternal damnation if they tell someone.

After reading this, would you ever send your kid to a catholic school? It's abuse by itself filling your child's head with religious nonsense and taxing all their free time with church bullshit, then you send them, unprotected into the custody of child-molesters and at the very least, sexually repressed men, devoid of much life experience, socially awkward and driven insane by chastity?!?

....like a catholic altar boy.......

AZGrizFan wrote:

D1B wrote: It is and it isn't. Here's the key differences.

The catholic church had an elaborate scheme to cover up abuse and silence victims. If a teacher abused a student and a colleague found out about it, that teacher was reported and thrown in prison. Not so, for a looooooong time in the church. In fact they were protected, transferred or retired to a posh catholic vineyard/monastery/pedophile retirement community in the Sonoma Valley. No other organization, outside of organized crime or corporate tax dodgers, even comes close to the level of secrecy and cover up than the church. They make Enron look like the Gates Foundation.

Second, and most important, the catholic church AINT SUPPOSED TO BE DOING THAT SHIT, NO ONE SHOULD, ESPECIALLY THEM! They are the foot soldiers of the mythical jesus for christ's sake. They claim moral authority then acitivly engage in a sophisticated scheme to molest boys and cover it up. This, with no regard for the victims. Their sole focus is and was on making sure the church doesn't take a hit.
Yeah sure there are some good churches. But take a look at the archdioceses that have been successfully sued - they are some of largest in the world (chicago, boston, portland, los angelos.....)

The sad thing is, this is only the tip of the iceberg. Just wait.

THIS is why I made my statement. This isn't NAMBLA, for God's sake....it's the CATHOLIC CHURCH. There couldn't possibly be a worse PR nightmare for "the foot soldiers of the mythical jesus". I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that a long time ago, in a diocese far, far away, the FIRST case of molestation was uncovered. Someone made the ultimate decision at that time to just pay the molested off and make it go away....and this gave the sex-starved priests a "blank check" so to speak, to perform their evil and know that they weren't going to be taken public for fear of how it would make the church look. I think if the church had come down hard (no pun intended) on the FIRST offender...i.e., excommunication, prosecution, jailtime, etc., it would have changed the ultimate outcome.

It's a sinister organization. Anti human is most respects. How anyone could claim, without embarrassment or guilt, to be a proud and practicing catholic is beyond me. The fact is, when someone gives money to the church, a portion of that will go to lawyer fees for the church and their legions of pedophiles.

Sad, there are so many wonderful eastern religions, true christian sects and spiritual systems out there, if you need that sort of thing.

D1B wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote: THIS is why I made my statement. This isn't NAMBLA, for God's sake....it's the CATHOLIC CHURCH. There couldn't possibly be a worse PR nightmare for "the foot soldiers of the mythical jesus". I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that a long time ago, in a diocese far, far away, the FIRST case of molestation was uncovered. Someone made the ultimate decision at that time to just pay the molested off and make it go away....and this gave the sex-starved priests a "blank check" so to speak, to perform their evil and know that they weren't going to be taken public for fear of how it would make the church look. I think if the church had come down hard (no pun intended) on the FIRST offender...i.e., excommunication, prosecution, jailtime, etc., it would have changed the ultimate outcome.

It's a sinister organization. Anti human is most respects. How anyone could claim, without embarrassment or guilt, to be a proud and practicing catholic is beyond me. The fact is, when someone gives money to the church, a portion of that will go to lawyer fees for the church and their legions of pedophiles.

Sad, there are so many wonderful eastern religions, true christian sects and spiritual systems out there, if you need that sort of thing.

I think, for the most part, Catholics don't identify themselves with the "mothership" (i.e., Rome). In fact, growing up Catholic, I never really even knew who the big boys were in our chain of command. I identified with our local priest, a good guy (who, thankfully, never pulled any of this crap). Yeah, there's been a lot of issues in a lot of different areas, but it truly is a few bad apples spoiling it for all. The bulk of the priests are of good heart, good intention, and have no secret perverted sexual fantasies about altar boys. The TOP may be sinister, but the vast majority of those who operate where the rubber meets the road are goodhearted people.

AZGrizFan wrote:

D1B wrote: It's a sinister organization. Anti human is most respects. How anyone could claim, without embarrassment or guilt, to be a proud and practicing catholic is beyond me. The fact is, when someone gives money to the church, a portion of that will go to lawyer fees for the church and their legions of pedophiles.

Sad, there are so many wonderful eastern religions, true christian sects and spiritual systems out there, if you need that sort of thing.

I think, for the most part, Catholics don't identify themselves with the "mothership" (i.e., Rome). In fact, growing up Catholic, I never really even knew who the big boys were in our chain of command. I identified with our local priest, a good guy (who, thankfully, never pulled any of this crap). Yeah, there's been a lot of issues in a lot of different areas, but it truly is a few bad apples spoiling it for all. The bulk of the priests are of good heart, good intention, and have no secret perverted sexual fantasies about altar boys. The TOP may be sinister, but the vast majority of those who operate where the rubber meets the road are goodhearted people.

I agree, somewhat. Unfortunately, a majority of those goodhearted priests did jack squat, no different than the holocaust.

It's a sad day when one is "thankfull" that their priest didn't rape them. I sure am. Cap'n & I went to the same school where that priest from the acadamy award-winning documentary "Deliver us From Evil" was the principal. Maybe Cap'n and I weren't cute enough.

I'm now gonna sue the church for giving me low self-esteem.

D1B wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote: I think, for the most part, Catholics don't identify themselves with the "mothership" (i.e., Rome). In fact, growing up Catholic, I never really even knew who the big boys were in our chain of command. I identified with our local priest, a good guy (who, thankfully, never pulled any of this crap). Yeah, there's been a lot of issues in a lot of different areas, but it truly is a few bad apples spoiling it for all. The bulk of the priests are of good heart, good intention, and have no secret perverted sexual fantasies about altar boys. The TOP may be sinister, but the vast majority of those who operate where the rubber meets the road are goodhearted people.

I agree, somewhat. Unfortunately, a majority of those goodhearted priests did jack squat, no different than the holocaust.

It's a sad day when one is "thankfull" that their priest didn't rape them. I sure am. Cap'n & I went to the same school where that priest from the acadamy award-winning documentary "Deliver us From Evil" was the principal. Maybe Cap'n and I weren't cute enough.

I'm now gonna sue the church for giving me low self-esteem.

By "thankfully", I mean that I looked up to him and I'm thankful that he wasn't that type of individual...he deserved and earned my trust and respect. And he still has it. I'm not throwing the baby out with the bath water....There are bad apples in any organization. Yeah, the Catholic church should be held to a MUCH higher standard, but to think that they're not going to have bad apples is naive. I just don't think we (as individuals) should make a blanked statement about the entire organization being "sinister". There's no doubt that those who supposed profess the deepest faith in Christ (those at the top of the Cathoic organization) are gonna have some 'spainin' to do when they meet their maker. That, in and of itself, is good enough for me.

D1B wrote: It's a sinister organization. Anti human is most respects. How anyone could claim, without embarrassment or guilt, to be a proud and practicing catholic is beyond me. The fact is, when someone gives money to the church, a portion of that will go to lawyer fees for the church and their legions of pedophiles.

Sad, there are so many wonderful eastern religions, true christian sects and spiritual systems out there, if you need that sort of thing.

You're opened my eyes...I never looked at it that way...sinister...anti-human...











Nice try, D, but I am nether embarrassed nor feel guilty about being a Catholic...and I'm proud and a practicing Catholic...

I'm also neither embarrassed nor feel guilty over the actions of white slave holders in the 1700 - 1800's...and proud to be white...

I am embarrassed by the actions, and lack of actions, by priests and bishops/cardinals...

So, insult away...sticks and stones will break my bones....etc, etc, etc...

Col Hogan wrote:

D1B wrote: It's a sinister organization. Anti human is most respects. How anyone could claim, without embarrassment or guilt, to be a proud and practicing catholic is beyond me. The fact is, when someone gives money to the church, a portion of that will go to lawyer fees for the church and their legions of pedophiles.

Sad, there are so many wonderful eastern religions, true christian sects and spiritual systems out there, if you need that sort of thing.

You're opened my eyes...I never looked at it that way...sinister...anti-human...











Nice try, D, but I am nether embarrassed nor feel guilty about being a Catholic...and I'm proud and a practicing Catholic...

I'm also neither embarrassed nor feel guilty over the actions of white slave holders in the 1700 - 1800's...and proud to be white...

I am embarrassed by the actions, and lack of actions, by priests and bishops/cardinals...

So, insult away...sticks and stones will break my bones....etc, etc, etc...

Don't take it as an insult Hogan.

However, NOW may be the time for you to get out, before the shit hits the fan. I'll PM you a hand picked list of alternative religions for to review. What the hell give it a try.

D1B wrote:

Col Hogan wrote: You're opened my eyes...I never looked at it that way...sinister...anti-human...











Nice try, D, but I am nether embarrassed nor feel guilty about being a Catholic...and I'm proud and a practicing Catholic...

I'm also neither embarrassed nor feel guilty over the actions of white slave holders in the 1700 - 1800's...and proud to be white...

I am embarrassed by the actions, and lack of actions, by priests and bishops/cardinals...

So, insult away...sticks and stones will break my bones....etc, etc, etc...

Don't take it as an insult Hogan.

However, NOW may be the time for you to get out, before the shit hits the fan. I'll PM you a hand picked list of alternative religions for to review. What the hell give it a try.

Since I'm a practicing Catholic, your comment "What the hell give it a try" could be considered a great play on words...

But in that very statement, you answered the questions for me...What the hell...

No thanks...I'll pass...

Col Hogan wrote:

D1B wrote: It's a sinister organization. Anti human is most respects. How anyone could claim, without embarrassment or guilt, to be a proud and practicing catholic is beyond me. The fact is, when someone gives money to the church, a portion of that will go to lawyer fees for the church and their legions of pedophiles.

Sad, there are so many wonderful eastern religions, true christian sects and spiritual systems out there, if you need that sort of thing.

You're opened my eyes...I never looked at it that way...sinister...anti-human...











Nice try, D, but I am nether embarrassed nor feel guilty about being a Catholic...and I'm proud and a practicing Catholic...

I'm also neither embarrassed nor feel guilty over the actions of white slave holders in the 1700 - 1800's...and proud to be white...

I am embarrassed by the actions, and lack of actions, by priests and bishops/cardinals...

So, insult away...sticks and stones will break my bones....etc, etc, etc...

One more thing. Say you're employer (not the fucking army) got knocked for the same shit, wouldn't you consider switching jobs? I mean, sure,it's just a few bad apples (Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles, Portland, Santa Fe, Dallas, Louisville, San Diego, Davenport, Spokane, Tuscon, etc... (some 2 BILLION DOLLARS IN DAMAGES) but rationalize it all you want, you are being lumped in with all of it.

Get out now. Your reputation is at stake.

Col Hogan wrote:

D1B wrote: Don't take it as an insult Hogan.

However, NOW may be the time for you to get out, before the shit hits the fan. I'll PM you a hand picked list of alternative religions for to review. What the hell give it a try.

Since I'm a practicing Catholic, your comment "What the hell give it a try" could be considered a great play on words...

But in that very statement, you answered the questions for me...What the hell...

No thanks...I'll pass...

I'm a taoist and you and your family are welcome in my church any time.

D1B wrote: I'm a taoist and you and your family are welcome in my church any time.

The Tao of Pot?

D1B wrote:Sad, there are so many wonderful eastern religions, true christian sects and spiritual systems out there, if you need that sort of thing.

That's just it.....all tose other religions are nothing more than feel good, magic, fairy dust shamanism....



they're not based upon the same foundational beliefs that Chrisitanity is......

dbackjon wrote:

D1B wrote: I'm a taoist and you and your family are welcome in my church any time.

The Tao of Pot?

Me too......