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Eliminate Most Gun Control Laws
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:17 am
by Col Hogan
I read an extremely well written piece yesterday on why people should support the Second Amendment rights for all Americans...it laid out a powerful, well defined arguement...
While I was not surprised by the arguement (more, I was very pleased)...what did surprise me was the source...
None other than the liberal rage
The Daily Kos...that's not a mistake...
So, liberals...Donks...get on board...
When it comes to discussing the Second Amendment, liberals check rational thought at the door. They dismiss approximately 40% of American households that own one or more guns, and those who fight to protect the Second Amendment, as "gun nuts." They argue for greater restrictions. And they pursue these policies at the risk of alienating voters who might otherwise vote for Democrats.
And they do so in a way that is wholly inconsistent with their approach to all of our other civil liberties.
Those who fight against Second Amendment rights cite statistics about gun violence, as if such numbers are evidence enough that our rights should be restricted. But Chicago and Washington DC, the two cities from which came the most recent Supreme Court decisions on Second Amendment rights, had some of the most restrictive laws in the nation, and also some of the highest rates of violent crime. Clearly, such restrictions do not correlate with preventing crime.
So rather than continuing to fight for greater restrictions on Second Amendment rights, it is time for liberals to defend Second Amendment rights as vigorously as they fight to protect all of our other rights. Because it is by fighting to protect each right that we protect all rights.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/ ... -Amendment" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Eliminate Most Gun Control Laws
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:45 am
by CSUBUCDAD
WOW, have they finally come to their collective senses? Only thing out that camp that has ever made sense to me.
Re: Eliminate Most Gun Control Laws
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:02 am
by Benne
The replies should be interesting. "But... But... But..."
Re: Eliminate Most Gun Control Laws
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:49 am
by Skjellyfetti
What are the federal laws that are so restrictive of gun rights? What would y'all like to see overturned?
I'm a gun owner and have never had much of a problem owning and using my guns.
Re: Eliminate Most Gun Control Laws
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:53 am
by dbackjon
Guns for personal protection, hunting, etc should never be banned.
But, just as free speech has restrictions/regulations, so should guns. I think we all recognize that there are inappropriate places for guns (airplanes, for example). The question should be to define what specific areas should guns be regulated/banned. Broad bans like Chicago/DC had to me, where clearly unconstitutional.
Also, as technology expands, with it firepower, the state has legitimate interests in regulating that. I don't want my neighbors to have a bazooka. Armor piercing bullets have no place in private hands.
I would also be in favor of a uniform national CCW permit that required classroom and hands on experience, with emphasis on safety, coupled with strict laws on misuse of the permit.
Re: Eliminate Most Gun Control Laws
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:58 am
by CitadelGrad
Skjellyfetti wrote:What are the federal laws that are so restrictive of gun rights? What would y'all like to see overturned?
I'm a gun owner and have never had much of a problem owning and using my guns.
Unfortunately you haven't put the barrel into your mouth and squeezed the trigger.
Re: Eliminate Most Gun Control Laws
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:02 am
by Col Hogan
dbackjon wrote:Guns for personal protection, hunting, etc should never be banned.
But, just as free speech has restrictions/regulations, so should guns. I think we all recognize that there are inappropriate places for guns (airplanes, for example). The question should be to define what specific areas should guns be regulated/banned. Broad bans like Chicago/DC had to me, where clearly unconstitutional.
Also, as technology expands, with it firepower, the state has legitimate interests in regulating that. I don't want my neighbors to have a bazooka. Armor piercing bullets have no place in private hands.
I would also be in favor of a uniform national CCW permit that required classroom and hands on experience, with emphasis on safety, coupled with strict laws on misuse of the permit.
If we agree that the right to vote (in several amendments) and the right to keep and bear arms (the second amendment) are Constitutionally granted right...why would you want training for one (2nd) but not demand the same to exercise the right to vote???
More harm can (and has) been done in this country by idiots at the ballot box than by people who keep and bear arms...
Just as a simple voter registration card is issued for voting (and that makes sure a felon or someone otherwise inelligable is kept out) I agree that a simple CCW/CCP should be issued and valid nationwide...
I have no problem with individual states setting up rules for where one cannot carry, as long as they are within reason...and the feds banning carry on planes (interstate commerce, which they control)...
Re: Eliminate Most Gun Control Laws
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:05 am
by Col Hogan
Skjellyfetti wrote:What are the federal laws that are so restrictive of gun rights? What would y'all like to see overturned?
I'm a gun owner and have never had much of a problem owning and using my guns.
So far, the two major recent cases have involved local laws (Washington/Chicago) that are onerous...
who has said anything about federal restrictions???
Re: Eliminate Most Gun Control Laws
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:27 am
by Skjellyfetti
CitadelGrad wrote:Skjellyfetti wrote:What are the federal laws that are so restrictive of gun rights? What would y'all like to see overturned?
I'm a gun owner and have never had much of a problem owning and using my guns.
Unfortunately you haven't put the barrel into your mouth and squeezed the trigger.
Col Hogan wrote:Skjellyfetti wrote:What are the federal laws that are so restrictive of gun rights? What would y'all like to see overturned?
I'm a gun owner and have never had much of a problem owning and using my guns.
So far, the two major recent cases have involved local laws (Washington/Chicago) that are onerous...
who has said anything about federal restrictions???
I don't really give a shit about local laws in Washington or Chicago. The article and the post insinuates that liberals and Democrats as a whole are against gun rights... and that simply isn't true. It's just a fear tactic used by the Right to scare up votes. BUY ALL THE AMMO AND GUNS YOU CAN!!! OBAMA IS PRESIDENT NOW... AMMO AND GUNS WILL BE OUTLAWED.
I'm in favor of restrictions on guns. Most Americans are in favor of restrictions on guns. Antonin Scalia is in favor of restrictions on guns. Most of the sane posters here are in favor of restrictions on guns. Where to draw the line is where the debate is.
Whoever wrote the blog post doesn't specify how liberals, as a whole, infringe on gun rights. A bunch of bullshit, imo.
Re: Eliminate Most Gun Control Laws
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:30 am
by bluehenbillk
Col Hogan wrote:
When it comes to discussing the Second Amendment, liberals check rational thought at the door. They dismiss approximately 40% of American households that own one or more guns, and those who fight to protect the Second Amendment, as "gun nuts."
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/ ... -Amendment" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
OK, maybe I just don't pay attention, but "approximately 40% of American households" own a gun?? That # strikes me as really high. Just wondering where they come up with that #, I'd think the # would be about half of that maybe.....
Re: Eliminate Most Gun Control Laws
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:33 am
by Skjellyfetti
bluehenbillk wrote:
OK, maybe I just don't pay attention, but "approximately 40% of American households" own a gun?? That # strikes me as really high. Just wondering where they come up with that #, I'd think the # would be about half of that maybe.....
It's bunk statistics.
They added up all the guns in the US, divided by the number of households and conclude 40% of households own a gun. But, that assumes everyone owns only 1 gun... which is bullshit.
Re: Eliminate Most Gun Control Laws
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:36 am
by GannonFan
Skjellyfetti wrote:CitadelGrad wrote:
Unfortunately you haven't put the barrel into your mouth and squeezed the trigger.
Col Hogan wrote:
So far, the two major recent cases have involved local laws (Washington/Chicago) that are onerous...
who has said anything about federal restrictions???
I don't really give a **** about local laws in Washington or Chicago. The article and the post insinuates that liberals and Democrats as a whole are against gun rights... and that simply isn't true. It's just a fear tactic used by the Right to scare up votes. BUY ALL THE AMMO AND GUNS YOU CAN!!! OBAMA IS PRESIDENT NOW... AMMO AND GUNS WILL BE OUTLAWED.
I'm in favor of restrictions on guns. Most Americans are in favor of restrictions on guns. Antonin Scalia is in favor of restrictions on guns. Most of the sane posters here are in favor of restrictions on guns. Where to draw the line is where the debate is.
Whoever wrote the blog post doesn't specify how liberals, as a whole, infringe on gun rights. A bunch of bullshit, imo.
Well, truth be told, that's how both groups (libs and conservatives) tend to view the opinions the other group has - always in absolutes. But of course, the debate is always, as you say, in terms of where to draw the line - whether it be for regulation, taxes, guns, etc.
Re: Eliminate Most Gun Control Laws
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:52 am
by Col Hogan
Skjellyfetti wrote:
I don't really give a **** about local laws in Washington or Chicago. The article and the post insinuates that liberals and Democrats as a whole are against gun rights... and that simply isn't true. It's just a fear tactic used by the Right to scare up votes. BUY ALL THE AMMO AND GUNS YOU CAN!!! OBAMA IS PRESIDENT NOW... AMMO AND GUNS WILL BE OUTLAWED.
I'm in favor of restrictions on guns. Most Americans are in favor of restrictions on guns. Antonin Scalia is in favor of restrictions on guns. Most of the sane posters here are in favor of restrictions on guns. Where to draw the line is where the debate is.
Whoever wrote the blog post doesn't specify how liberals, as a whole, infringe on gun rights. A bunch of bullshit, imo.
If you don't give a shit about local laws...why do you get all up in arms about other issues near and dear to your heart when a locality does something you disagree with....say...Arizona...
You're being a little two faced when you say you don't care about local laws...but cry foul when a state...say Virginia...bans gay marriage...then you care...
One way or the other.....your inconsistant stand is showing...
And are you trying to say groups like the Brady Bunch and Citizens Against Violence...which are pushing almost total bans on weapons...are not liberal...and are not going after liberal voters???
Please...
Re: Eliminate Most Gun Control Laws
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:55 am
by CitadelGrad
Skjellyfetti wrote:bluehenbillk wrote:
OK, maybe I just don't pay attention, but "approximately 40% of American households" own a gun?? That # strikes me as really high. Just wondering where they come up with that #, I'd think the # would be about half of that maybe.....
It's bunk statistics.
They added up all the guns in the US, divided by the number of households and conclude 40% of households own a gun. But, that assumes everyone owns only 1 gun... which is bullshit.
Can you provide some documentation that that was the methodology used?? I didn't think so. Gun registration laws make it much easier to get an accurate number of the households in which guns are present.
Re: Eliminate Most Gun Control Laws
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:09 am
by Baldy
Skjellyfetti wrote:bluehenbillk wrote:
OK, maybe I just don't pay attention, but "approximately 40% of American households" own a gun?? That # strikes me as really high. Just wondering where they come up with that #, I'd think the # would be about half of that maybe.....
It's bunk statistics.
They added up all the guns in the US, divided by the number of households and conclude 40% of households own a gun. But, that assumes everyone owns only 1 gun... which is bullshit.
If that were the case, per household gun ownership in the US would be 100%+.
You can bet your mortgage that there are over 300,000,000 civilian owned firearms the USA.
Re: Eliminate Most Gun Control Laws
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:15 pm
by houndawg
CitadelGrad wrote:Skjellyfetti wrote:
It's bunk statistics.
They added up all the guns in the US, divided by the number of households and conclude 40% of households own a gun. But, that assumes everyone owns only 1 gun... which is bullshit.
Can you provide some documentation that that was the methodology used?? I didn't think so. Gun registration laws make it much easier to get an accurate number of the households in which guns are present.
Just carry the luggage, sunshine.
Re: Eliminate Most Gun Control Laws
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:58 pm
by Chizzang
I can't even work up a passing interest in Gun Laws... Good bad or whatever
In the state of Washington I don't know any Liberals who care about gun laws - The times when I lived in Boston there seemed to be more concern...
but Liberals in Washington's Seattle area (as far as I can tell) couldn't care less
and I'm right there with them on Apathy street
Re: Eliminate Most Gun Control Laws
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:20 pm
by Col Hogan
Chizzang wrote:I can't even work up a passing interest in Gun Laws... Good bad or whatever
In the state of Washington I don't know any Liberals who care about gun laws - The times when I lived in Boston there seemed to be more concern...
but Liberals in Washington's Seattle area (as far as I can tell) couldn't care less
and I'm right there with them on Apathy street
Wish you could share that karma with those libs in Chicago...Washington...Massachusetts...California...Maryland...and a few other locations...
Re: Eliminate Most Gun Control Laws
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:46 pm
by Chizzang
Col Hogan wrote:Chizzang wrote:I can't even work up a passing interest in Gun Laws... Good bad or whatever
In the state of Washington I don't know any Liberals who care about gun laws - The times when I lived in Boston there seemed to be more concern...
but Liberals in Washington's Seattle area (as far as I can tell) couldn't care less
and I'm right there with them on Apathy street
Wish you could share that karma with those libs in Chicago...Washington...Massachusetts...California...Maryland...and a few other locations...
Should this be a "states Rights" thing too...
Or does that only apply to your pet issues - just wondering - cause this seems to fall right in line with that
If California wants different gun control laws than Maryland or Utah - okay...
Let the people of the state decide ...
so what.. (Right..?)
Re: Eliminate Most Gun Control Laws
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:53 pm
by Col Hogan
Chizzang wrote:Col Hogan wrote:
Wish you could share that karma with those libs in Chicago...Washington...Massachusetts...California...Maryland...and a few other locations...
Should this be a "states Rights" thing too...
Or does that only apply to your pet issues - just wondering - cause this seems to fall right in line with that
If California wants different gun control laws than Maryland or Utah - okay...
Let the people of the state decide ...
so what.. (Right..?)
I didn't know karma was a ......never mind....if I have to explain it, it loses something in the translation...
The basic 2A rights are not "state's rights"....but as even the SCOTUS has said, some controls are allowable...
And that is a state's decision to make...
I just wish you would spread some of that Washington karma around to the states listed...that's all I'm saying...
Re: Eliminate Most Gun Control Laws
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:31 pm
by Skjellyfetti
Col Hogan wrote:but as even the SCOTUS has said, some controls are allowable...
And that is a state's decision to make...
The Federal government has placed restrictions on guns that SCOTUS has upheld.
When you say "eliminate most gun control laws"... which laws are you referring to?
Re: Eliminate Most Gun Control Laws
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:11 pm
by Col Hogan
Skjellyfetti wrote:Col Hogan wrote:but as even the SCOTUS has said, some controls are allowable...
And that is a state's decision to make...
The Federal government has placed restrictions on guns that SCOTUS has upheld.
When you say "eliminate most gun control laws"... which laws are you referring to?
Allow an adult who is legally able (not a felon, not mentally ill) to own a firearm, to carry it concealed or open for self-defense...
Eliminate restrictions on magazine size...
That's a start...
Re: Eliminate Most Gun Control Laws
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:13 pm
by dbackjon
Why do you need a big magazine? It is not applicable for hunting or self-defense.
Re: Eliminate Most Gun Control Laws
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:18 pm
by Col Hogan
dbackjon wrote:Why do you need a big magazine? It is not applicable for hunting or self-defense.
Why do you feel the need to limit a magazine size?
Re: Eliminate Most Gun Control Laws
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:29 pm
by HI54UNI
dbackjon wrote:Why do you need a big magazine? It is not applicable for hunting or self-defense.
What if a dangerous animal like a wolf is coming at me? I want to make sure it is dead. And what if it is a pack of wolves?
