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He speaks in apocalyptic terms, saying the debt is "completely unsustainable" and warning that "it will crash our economy." He urges fellow politicians, and voters, to stop pretending that this problem will go away on its own.

He administers his sermons with evangelical zeal. He will go anywhere and talk to anyone who will listen. When he is not writing op-eds and appearing on television, he can often be found speaking to liberal and conservative audiences alike about his "Roadmap for America's Future," a plan he says would fix the problem.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... lot&sub=AR" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He is 40-year old Representative Paul Ryan of Wisconsin (hey D1B...isn't he your representative)...

He's not afraid of the controversy his proposals will stir up...especially for his own party leadership...

Ryan's proposals have created a bind for GOP leaders, who spent much of last year attacking the Democrats' health-care legislation for its measures to trim Medicare costs. House Minority Leader John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) has alternately praised Ryan and emphasized that his ideas are not those of the party.

Ryan has not helped to make it easy for his leaders. He is a loyal Republican, but he is also perhaps the GOP's leading intellectual in Congress and occasionally seems to forget that he is a politician himself.

His main points are:

- Leave in place the current Social Security system for those 55 and over
- For those under 55, reform Medicare with vouchers to buy private insurance. The age for Medicare eligibility would increase over time from 65 to 69
- Future Social Security benefits would be reduced for many workers now 54 or younger. The would also have the option of putting $ into investment accounts from their Social Security taxes
- Gradually raise the retirement age to 70
- Eliminate taxes on interest, capital gains, and dividends
- Replace taxes on corporations with a consumption tax on what the businesses buy
- Freeze most government spending: Exempt would be Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and defense

1) Medicare doesn't need reform - very efficient already.
2) SS doesn't need reduced benefits. SS could be solved by eliminating the cap on taxable income
3) Raising retirement age is fine, done gradually
4) Stupid to eliminate taxes on interest, capital gains and dividends. Income is income. All should be treated the same. It is insulting that income derived from investing is taxed lower than income derived from honest work.
5) First, we need to get corporations to PAY taxes
6) Why exempt defense? There is plenty of waste in defense spending as well. There are also areas that have been underfunded, even in good times. Example would be the National Park System, where defered maintenance costs run in the billions.

dbackjon wrote:1) Medicare doesn't need reform - very efficient already.
2) SS doesn't need reduced benefits. SS could be solved by eliminating the cap on taxable income
3) Raising retirement age is fine, done gradually
4) Stupid to eliminate taxes on interest, capital gains and dividends. Income is income. All should be treated the same. It is insulting that income derived from investing is taxed lower than income derived from honest work.
5) First, we need to get corporations to PAY taxes
6) Why exempt defense? There is plenty of waste in defense spending as well. There are also areas that have been underfunded, even in good times. Example would be the National Park System, where defered maintenance costs run in the billions.

1) yes it does
2) yes it does
3) part of #2
4) It is insulting that the upper class (me, I guess??) CONTINUE to be asked to carry MORE than their "fair share" of the income burden
5) Corporations pay billions and billions and billions in corporate taxes. But, to pay taxes, you've got to actually MAKE MONEY, which is a bit hard in an era where politicians HATE corporate America so much.
6) Agreed. Defense doesn't need to be exempted. Neither do National Parks. NOTHING IS SACRED.

dbackjon wrote:1) Medicare doesn't need reform - very efficient already.
2) SS doesn't need reduced benefits. SS could be solved by eliminating the cap on taxable income
3) Raising retirement age is fine, done gradually
4) Stupid to eliminate taxes on interest, capital gains and dividends. Income is income. All should be treated the same. It is insulting that income derived from investing is taxed lower than income derived from honest work.
5) First, we need to get corporations to PAY taxes
6) Why exempt defense? There is plenty of waste in defense spending as well. There are also areas that have been underfunded, even in good times. Example would be the National Park System, where defered maintenance costs run in the billions.

1. Ok, I might agree with you. Medicaid does need reform however, but that's a state-by-state case.
2. SS could also be solved by reforming the disability claims process and eliminating red tape that will allow disability examiners like myself to process cases faster and without as many government-paid-for doctor's appointments.
3. Yes, lets raise the retirement age for SS benefits. Longer life expectancy means people should work longer.
4. No, it is not insulting. Money I invest is coming from money that is already taxed b/c I earned it from honest work. It is insulting to me to have that money taxed yet again for being responsible with it instead of blowing it on stuff. In other words, encourage Americans to save and invest and enable them to be able to move up.
5. Agreed, but with them finding a way around it, the Rep. Ryan's solution seems viable.
6. Defense is necessary to the survival and security of our nation. I agree we could audit the defense department to see where money is being spent, and what can be streamlined to become more efficient and save money. The National Park System should be able to raise it's own revenue by allowing advertising in select areas, i.e. small signs at the visitor centers/outposts.

ATrain wrote:

dbackjon wrote:1) Medicare doesn't need reform - very efficient already.
2) SS doesn't need reduced benefits. SS could be solved by eliminating the cap on taxable income
3) Raising retirement age is fine, done gradually
4) Stupid to eliminate taxes on interest, capital gains and dividends. Income is income. All should be treated the same. It is insulting that income derived from investing is taxed lower than income derived from honest work.
5) First, we need to get corporations to PAY taxes
6) Why exempt defense? There is plenty of waste in defense spending as well. There are also areas that have been underfunded, even in good times. Example would be the National Park System, where defered maintenance costs run in the billions.

1. Ok, I might agree with you. Medicaid does need reform however, but that's a state-by-state case.
2. SS could also be solved by reforming the disability claims process and eliminating red tape that will allow disability examiners like myself to process cases faster and without as many government-paid-for doctor's appointments.
3. Yes, lets raise the retirement age for SS benefits. Longer life expectancy means people should work longer.
4. No, it is not insulting. Money I invest is coming from money that is already taxed b/c I earned it from honest work. It is insulting to me to have that money taxed yet again for being responsible with it instead of blowing it on stuff. In other words, encourage Americans to save and invest and enable them to be able to move up.
5. Agreed, but with them finding a way around it, the Rep. Ryan's solution seems viable.
6. Defense is necessary to the survival and security of our nation. I agree we could audit the defense department to see where money is being spent, and what can be streamlined to become more efficient and save money. The National Park System should be able to raise it's own revenue by allowing advertising in select areas, i.e. small signs at the visitor centers/outposts.

dbackjon wrote:1) Medicare doesn't need reform - very efficient already.
2) SS doesn't need reduced benefits. SS could be solved by eliminating the cap on taxable income
3) Raising retirement age is fine, done gradually
4) Stupid to eliminate taxes on interest, capital gains and dividends. Income is income. All should be treated the same. It is insulting that income derived from investing is taxed lower than income derived from honest work.
5) First, we need to get corporations to PAY taxes
6) Why exempt defense? There is plenty of waste in defense spending as well. There are also areas that have been underfunded, even in good times. Example would be the National Park System, where defered maintenance costs run in the billions.

1. Medicare is a joke. Doctors are dropping out of it in droves. Medicaid is even worse, it is putting too many states in a financial crisis.
2. SSi should be eliminated for anyone under 50.
3. Raise the retirement age.
4. ALL taxes on income should be eliminated. Punishing success stifles innovation, ingenuity, and hard work.
5. It is a myth that corporations pay taxes. They treat their tax liability like any other COGS. They pass that cost onto the consumer. Again, we need to eliminate ALL taxes on income, period. We need a consumption based tax system like the Fair Tax.
6. NOTHING should be exempted...everything in the budget shouldn't be safe from either massive cuts or total elimination.

Baldy wrote:

dbackjon wrote:1) Medicare doesn't need reform - very efficient already.
2) SS doesn't need reduced benefits. SS could be solved by eliminating the cap on taxable income
3) Raising retirement age is fine, done gradually
4) Stupid to eliminate taxes on interest, capital gains and dividends. Income is income. All should be treated the same. It is insulting that income derived from investing is taxed lower than income derived from honest work.
5) First, we need to get corporations to PAY taxes
6) Why exempt defense? There is plenty of waste in defense spending as well. There are also areas that have been underfunded, even in good times. Example would be the National Park System, where defered maintenance costs run in the billions.

1. Medicare is a joke. Doctors are dropping out of it in droves. Medicaid is even worse, it is putting too many states in a financial crisis.
2. SSi should be eliminated for anyone under 50.
3. Raise the retirement age.
4. ALL taxes on income should be eliminated. Punishing success stifles innovation, ingenuity, and hard work.
5. It is a myth that corporations pay taxes. They treat their tax liability like any other COGS. They pass that cost onto the consumer. Again, we need to eliminate ALL taxes on income, period. We need a consumption based tax system like the Fair Tax.
6. NOTHING should be exempted...everything in the budget shouldn't be safe from either massive cuts or total elimination.

TheDancinMonarch wrote:

Baldy wrote: 1. Medicare is a joke. Doctors are dropping out of it in droves. Medicaid is even worse, it is putting too many states in a financial crisis.
2. SSi should be eliminated for anyone under 50.
3. Raise the retirement age.
4. ALL taxes on income should be eliminated. Punishing success stifles innovation, ingenuity, and hard work.
5. It is a myth that corporations pay taxes. They treat their tax liability like any other COGS. They pass that cost onto the consumer. Again, we need to eliminate ALL taxes on income, period. We need a consumption based tax system like the Fair Tax.
6. NOTHING should be exempted...everything in the budget shouldn't be safe from either massive cuts or total elimination.

+2

Baldy wrote:
1. Medicare is a joke. Doctors are dropping out of it in droves. Medicaid is even worse, it is putting too many states in a financial crisis.
2. SSi should be eliminated for anyone under 50.
3. Raise the retirement age.
4. ALL taxes on income should be eliminated. Punishing success stifles innovation, ingenuity, and hard work.
5. It is a myth that corporations pay taxes. They treat their tax liability like any other COGS. They pass that cost onto the consumer. Again, we need to eliminate ALL taxes on income, period. We need a consumption based tax system like the Fair Tax.
6. NOTHING should be exempted...everything in the budget shouldn't be safe from either massive cuts or total elimination.

(one for all six points)

Baldy wrote: 5. It is a myth that corporations pay taxes. They treat their tax liability like any other COGS. They pass that cost onto the consumer. Again, we need to eliminate ALL taxes on income, period. We need a consumption based tax system like the Fair Tax.

Just to stir the pot, couldn't that work equally well if you reverse the statement? It is a myth that any individuals pay income taxes. They pass that cost on to employers by demanding higher wages.

Wait a minute, if corporations don't pay taxes, and individuals don't pay taxes, and I think churches still aren't paying taxes...no wonder we're broke!!!

mebison wrote:

Baldy wrote: 5. It is a myth that corporations pay taxes. They treat their tax liability like any other COGS. They pass that cost onto the consumer. Again, we need to eliminate ALL taxes on income, period. We need a consumption based tax system like the Fair Tax.

Just to stir the pot, couldn't that work equally well if you reverse the statement? It is a myth that any individuals pay income taxes. They pass that cost on to employers by demanding higher wages.

Wait a minute, if corporations don't pay taxes, and individuals don't pay taxes, and I think churches still aren't paying taxes...no wonder we're broke!!!

How many people do you know who've gone into their employer and DEMANDED higher wages?

Answer: 0

AZGrizFan wrote:

mebison wrote:
Just to stir the pot, couldn't that work equally well if you reverse the statement? It is a myth that any individuals pay income taxes. They pass that cost on to employers by demanding higher wages.

Wait a minute, if corporations don't pay taxes, and individuals don't pay taxes, and I think churches still aren't paying taxes...no wonder we're broke!!!

How many people do you know who've gone into their employer and DEMANDED higher wages?

Answer: 0

Well, I do know some who have done that and been successful, but whether they explicitly 'demand' the higher wages or not is not the point. Fact is, though, that if people didn't have to pay income tax, many of our checks would be 20-30% higher and employers could effectively pay us that much less. So you could say that the employers are effectively paying individual taxes.

mebison wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:
How many people do you know who've gone into their employer and DEMANDED higher wages?

Answer: 0

Well, I do know some who have done that and been successful, but whether they explicitly 'demand' the higher wages or not is not the point. Fact is, though, that if people didn't have to pay income tax, many of our checks would be 20-30% higher and employers could effectively pay us that much less. So you could say that the employers are effectively paying individual taxes.

Go back and look at Baldy's post. He advocates getting rid of taxes on business AND income.

bobbythekidd wrote: Go back and look at Baldy's post. He advocates getting rid of taxes on business AND income.

I'm not advocating any particular taxation scheme. Just having a little fun poking at logic train saying that because taxes are passed on to consumers, they are not really taxes on the business.

Unfortunately, I am apparently the only one who finds me funny...not that that's news to me.

Washington needs more folks like Paul Ryan. He's the real deal. Even though many will disagree with his ideas at least he has real concrete ideas. The conks should embrace his plan and an alternative to the dems plans. Problem is that it calls for some painful realities and politicians don't want to talk about harsh reality in an election year.

I'm not a financial or economic expert by any means but why is that a consumption based tax is viewed as radical? Is it because it's seen as a regressive tax?

yosef1969 wrote:Washington needs more folks like Paul Ryan. He's the real deal. Even though many will disagree with his ideas at least he has real concrete ideas. The conks should embrace his plan and an alternative to the dems plans. Problem is that it calls for some painful realities and politicians don't want to talk about harsh reality in an election year.

I'm not a financial or economic expert by any means but why is that a consumption based tax is viewed as radical? Is it because it's seen as a regressive tax?

yosef1969 wrote:Washington needs more folks like Paul Ryan. He's the real deal. Even though many will disagree with his ideas at least he has real concrete ideas. The conks should embrace his plan and an alternative to the dems plans. Problem is that it calls for some painful realities and politicians don't want to talk about harsh reality in an election year.
I'm not a financial or economic expert by any means but why is that a consumption based tax is viewed as radical? Is it because it's seen as a regressive tax?

The problem here is this: EVERY year is either an election year, or a runup to an election year....

Not only from Wisconsin, but from Janesville. I live a half block away from his headquarters and a couple blocks away from many of his family members. Prominent Janesville family. I know him and his smoking hot wife and see them socially at events when they're in town. He spoke at Rotary last year on this topic.

He is a strong candidate to be president some day. I started a thread here about him not too long ago - essentially why can't you fucking conks get behind people like him versus fucking McDicksnot, that idiot Palin and the other buffoons you blindly support? At the time, Baldy was the only one who was familiar with him, which underscores the fact that Baldy and Blueballs are the only conks here with true intelligence and poise.

Here's a pic of him right before he and I terrorized childcare programs in Beloit last fall while high on nitrous oxide and meth:

D1B wrote:Not only from Wisconsin, but from Janesville. I live a half block away from his headquarters and a couple blocks away from many of his family members. Prominent Janesville family. I know him and his smoking hot wife and see them socially at events when they're in town. He spoke at Rotary last year on this topic.

He is a strong candidate to be president some day. I started a thread here about him not too long ago - essentially why can't you fucking conks get behind people like him versus fucking McDicksnot, that idiot Palin and the other buffoons you blindly support? At the time, Baldy was the only one who was familiar with him, which underscores the fact that Baldy and Blueballs are the only conks here with true intelligence and poise.

Here's a pic of him right before he and I terrorized childcare programs in Beloit last fall while high on nitrous oxide and meth:

I'm fine with supporting folks like him and Christie....but they're both shining examples of what's wrong with the GOP and DNC these days...folks like THEM will NEVER get the nod...they're too "radical" and nobody currently in "the establishment" wants to rock the boat and mess up the gravy train they've got set up for themselves.

I remember seeing a Donk on TV (from Mississippi, I believe) who was speaking to reporters (extemporaneously, I might add) during the height of the Katrina crisis and I thought to myself..."why can't guys like THIS run for president....he was a Donk I could get behind. Wish I could remember his name....

AZGrizFan wrote:

D1B wrote:Not only from Wisconsin, but from Janesville. I live a half block away from his headquarters and a couple blocks away from many of his family members. Prominent Janesville family. I know him and his smoking hot wife and see them socially at events when they're in town. He spoke at Rotary last year on this topic.

He is a strong candidate to be president some day. I started a thread here about him not too long ago - essentially why can't you **** conks get behind people like him versus **** McDicksnot, that idiot Palin and the other buffoons you blindly support? At the time, Baldy was the only one who was familiar with him, which underscores the fact that Baldy and Blueballs are the only conks here with true intelligence and poise.

Here's a pic of him right before he and I terrorized childcare programs in Beloit last fall while high on nitrous oxide and meth:

I'm fine with supporting folks like him and Christie....but they're both shining examples of what's wrong with the GOP and DNC these days...folks like THEM will NEVER get the nod...they're too "radical" and nobody currently in "the establishment" wants to rock the boat and mess up the gravy train they've got set up for themselves.

I remember seeing a Donk on TV (from Mississippi, I believe) who was speaking to reporters (extemporaneously, I might add) during the height of the Katrina crisis and I thought to myself..."why can't guys like THIS run for president....he was a Donk I could get behind. Wish I could remember his name....

Gene Taylor maybe???
http://www.taylor.house.gov/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yosef1969 wrote:Gene Taylor maybe???
http://www.taylor.house.gov/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I really wish I could remember. A very eloquent, rational speaker who wasn't casting blame and didn't have a "woe is me" mentality....unlike those idiot donks from New Orleans....dude had his head squarely on his shoulders, not planted firmly in his ass.

[quote="dbackjon"]
4) Stupid to eliminate taxes on interest, capital gains and dividends. Income is income. All should be treated the same. It is insulting that income derived from investing is taxed lower than income derived from honest work.


FU*K!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dback and I agree on something.......kind of.

Tax the poor!!!


Its insulting that income derived from the poor is not taxed at all or way lower than income derived from the middle class or the uber rich. All people should be taxed equally.

ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:

dbackjon wrote: 4) Stupid to eliminate taxes on interest, capital gains and dividends. Income is income. All should be treated the same. It is insulting that income derived from investing is taxed lower than income derived from honest work.


FU*K!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dback and I agree on something.......kind of.

Tax the poor!!!


Its insulting that income derived from the poor is not taxed at all or way lower than income derived from the middle class or the uber rich. All people should be taxed equally.

Alphagrizz, now you've done it. Dback doesn't really want to see everyone pay taxes equally. He just wants "the rich" to be taxed for everything.

Dback isn't sure how to respond.

Agreed, hes probably sucking down.........a beer and thinking real hard.....on a comeback.