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I really love this so-called "Stockholm Model".

Mother told to clean own room after caesarean

"Mother-of-two Elin Andersson has highlighted staffing shortage problems at a maternity ward in Sundsvall in northern Sweden after she was asked to clean out her own hospital room just two days after giving birth by caesarean section.

Every time Andersson required medicine she had to call staff to remind them, she told local newspaper Sundsvalls Tidning. The new baby's father meanwhile was requested to aid in the care of his partner.

Two days after the operation, the recovering mum decided she was ready to go home.

”That was when the midwife said I had one final task to perform. Then she went and got a big white laundry bag and asked me to clean out the room and the bed where I had lain,” she told the newspaper.

Two midwives at the Sundsvall maternity ward admitted that Elin Andersson painted an accurate picture of their workplace.

Woman left with longer leg after failed hip op

"A Swedish woman has reported two doctors for bit having told her that her hip operation was unsuccessful and left her to find out for herself that her walking problems were caused by having one leg "much longer" than the other.

"I have never received any information from the surgeon/orthopaedic clinic that the operation had been unsuccessful," the woman wrote in her report to Health and Medical Treatment Disciplinary Board (Hälso- och sjukvårdens ansvarsnämnd, HSAN).

Despite mentioning when leaving the clinic in Örnsköldsvik in northern Sweden that one of her legs felt longer than the other, the then 76-year-old woman was left to find out for herself after experiencing problems walking.

"A physiotherapist grabbed a tape measure and measured my legs. He concluded that my operated leg was 'much longer' and referred me to the orthopaedic department."

It was only then that the woman was provided with the information that her hip operation had been unsuccessful."

Jonas, 32, sewed up his own leg after ER wait

"A 32-year-old took the needle into his hands when he tired of the wait at Sundsvall hospital in northern Sweden and sewed up the cut in his leg himself. The man was later reported to the police for his impromptu handiwork.

"It took such a long time," the man told the local Sundsvall Tidning daily.

The man incurred the deep cut when he sliced his leg on the sharp edge of a kitchen stove while he was renovating at home.

"I first went to the health clinic, but it was closed. So I rang the medical help line and they told me that it shouldn't be closed, so I went to emergency and sat there," the man named only as Jonas told the newspaper."

Sounds like US healthcare...just cheaper...

Emergency Room Death Sparks Outrage
NYC Woman's Videotaped Death Recalls Similar Incident Last Year In Los Angeles
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/ ... 7468.shtml

Doctor disciplined for removing wrong kidney
Minnesota urologist indefinitely barred from surgery
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34906847/ns ... alth_care/

Woman Becomes Quadruple Amputee After Giving Birth
A Sanford mother says she will never be able to hold her newborn because an Orlando hospital performed a life-altering surgery and, she claims, the hospital refuses to explain why they left her as a multiple amputee.
http://www.wftv.com/news/6253589/detail.html

Appaholic wrote:Sounds like US healthcare...just cheaper...

Emergency Room Death Sparks Outrage
NYC Woman's Videotaped Death Recalls Similar Incident Last Year In Los Angeles
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/ ... 7468.shtml

Doctor disciplined for removing wrong kidney
Minnesota urologist indefinitely barred from surgery
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34906847/ns ... alth_care/

Woman Becomes Quadruple Amputee After Giving Birth
A Sanford mother says she will never be able to hold her newborn because an Orlando hospital performed a life-altering surgery and, she claims, the hospital refuses to explain why they left her as a multiple amputee.
http://www.wftv.com/news/6253589/detail.html

And I'm always partial to this one, since it happened three miles from me:


Colostomy Gone Bad? What Could Be Worse
A Delaware man has filed suit against doctors, claiming a horrific surgical mix-up left him urinating feces and discharging urine from his bowels.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=3935535&page=1

93henfan wrote:

Appaholic wrote:Sounds like US healthcare...just cheaper...

Emergency Room Death Sparks Outrage
NYC Woman's Videotaped Death Recalls Similar Incident Last Year In Los Angeles
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/ ... 7468.shtml

Doctor disciplined for removing wrong kidney
Minnesota urologist indefinitely barred from surgery
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34906847/ns ... alth_care/

Woman Becomes Quadruple Amputee After Giving Birth
A Sanford mother says she will never be able to hold her newborn because an Orlando hospital performed a life-altering surgery and, she claims, the hospital refuses to explain why they left her as a multiple amputee.
http://www.wftv.com/news/6253589/detail.html

And I'm always partial to this one, since it happened three miles from me:


Colostomy Gone Bad? What Could Be Worse
A Delaware man has filed suit against doctors, claiming a horrific surgical mix-up left him urinating feces and discharging urine from his bowels.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=3935535&page=1

WOW!

I've encountered many mornings, typically after "Drinkin' with Lincoln" ($5 cover, penny draft), when i was pissing out of my butt, but urinating feces?...well, I don't really know what to say about that....

93henfan wrote:And I'm always partial to this one, since it happened three miles from me:


Colostomy Gone Bad? What Could Be Worse
A Delaware man has filed suit against doctors, claiming a horrific surgical mix-up left him urinating feces and discharging urine from his bowels.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=3935535&page=1

Where does he go #3?

andy7171 wrote:

93henfan wrote:And I'm always partial to this one, since it happened three miles from me:


Colostomy Gone Bad? What Could Be Worse
A Delaware man has filed suit against doctors, claiming a horrific surgical mix-up left him urinating feces and discharging urine from his bowels.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=3935535&page=1

Where does he go #3?

I dunno, but I'd stay away from his ears to be safe.

I don't think this thread is heading in the direction intended by the Bald One

dbackjon wrote:I don't think this thread is heading in the direction intended by the Bald One

Of course it isn't. When people don't like what's posted, the thread gets hijacked. You should know, you're one of the best at it.

The truth is we could go tit-for-tat all day with examples of medical malpractice in the US and Sweden, Finland, Denmark, etc. but the truth is you will not find one story about a patient being required to clean their own room when they were released from the hospital in the United States.

As far as malpractice is concerned, the one big difference between the US and the socialized medicine countries of Sweden, etc. is that we are allowed to find relief through the legal system. In Sweden, Finland, Denmark, etc, you're screwed. They put an arbitrary price tag on damages, and those minimal rewards are capped. I'm all for tort reform when it comes to frivolous medical malpractice suits, but in egregious cases like the ones listed in this thread, there should be no cap on damages whatsoever.

Constipation would be real rough. Imagine the suppositories!

Baldy wrote:you will not find one story about a patient being required to clean their own room when they were released from the hospital in the United States.

Just wait until we kick all the illegals out.

Benne wrote:

Baldy wrote:you will not find one story about a patient being required to clean their own room when they were released from the hospital in the United States.

Just wait until we kick all the illegals out.

Georgia Southern alums will take over doing the jobs previously done by illegals... and you only have to pay them with a bag of peanuts and 6-pack of Budweiser.

Baldy wrote:

dbackjon wrote:I don't think this thread is heading in the direction intended by the Bald One

Of course it isn't. When people don't like what's posted, the thread gets hijacked. You should know, you're one of the best at it.

The truth is we could go tit-for-tat all day with examples of medical malpractice in the US and Sweden, Finland, Denmark, etc. but the truth is you will not find one story about a patient being required to clean their own room when they were released from the hospital in the United States.

As far as malpractice is concerned, the one big difference between the US and the socialized medicine countries of Sweden, etc. is that we are allowed to find relief through the legal system. In Sweden, Finland, Denmark, etc, you're screwed. They put an arbitrary price tag on damages, and those minimal rewards are capped. I'm all for tort reform when it comes to frivolous medical malpractice suits, but in egregious cases like the ones listed in this thread, there should be no cap on damages whatsoever.

You're right Baldy, with the exorbitant cost of US medical care, you should never hear about someone in America having to clean their hospital room upon leaving. However, if you pay nothing out of pocket, it would be a minor inconvenience & nothing more in Finland. You used weak examples to suport your claim that socialized medicine is inferior. You were promptly countered with exmples from the World Class US healthcare system. While I agree with your premise that socialized healthcare is inferior, as a matter of principle & craftsmanship, I couldn't let you slide with your weak examples. Don't be lazy, you're better than that....

Skjellyfetti wrote:

Benne wrote:
Just wait until we kick all the illegals out.

Georgia Southern alums will take over doing the jobs previously done by illegals... and you only have to pay them with a bag of peanuts and 6-pack of Budweiser.

But you will still call us, Boss.

Appaholic wrote:

Baldy wrote: Of course it isn't. When people don't like what's posted, the thread gets hijacked. You should know, you're one of the best at it.

The truth is we could go tit-for-tat all day with examples of medical malpractice in the US and Sweden, Finland, Denmark, etc. but the truth is you will not find one story about a patient being required to clean their own room when they were released from the hospital in the United States.

As far as malpractice is concerned, the one big difference between the US and the socialized medicine countries of Sweden, etc. is that we are allowed to find relief through the legal system. In Sweden, Finland, Denmark, etc, you're screwed. They put an arbitrary price tag on damages, and those minimal rewards are capped. I'm all for tort reform when it comes to frivolous medical malpractice suits, but in egregious cases like the ones listed in this thread, there should be no cap on damages whatsoever.

You're right Baldy, with the exorbitant cost of US medical care, you should never hear about someone in America having to clean their hospital room upon leaving. However, if you pay nothing out of pocket, it would be a minor inconvenience & nothing more in Finland. You used weak examples to suport your claim that socialized medicine is inferior. You were promptly countered with exmples from the World Class US healthcare system. While I agree with your premise that socialized healthcare is inferior, as a matter of principle & craftsmanship, I couldn't let you slide with your weak examples. Don't be lazy, you're better than that....

The main premise was the patient having to clean their own room. The other examples were of a different topic, and I shouldn't have included them. With that said, the US does have the best healthcare system in the world. All you have to do is compare our survival rates for heart attacks and virtually every form of cancer. Measure our success rates for transplants, knee replacements, the shortest patient waiting lists in the world, etc, etc, etc. More Americans have won the Nobel Prize in medicine and physiology than every other country in the world combined. 8 of the top 10 prescribed pharmaceuticals in the world were invented and developed in the US. I could go on all day long....

Is that better?

Skjellyfetti wrote:

Benne wrote:
Just wait until we kick all the illegals out.

Georgia Southern alums will take over doing the jobs previously done by illegals... and you only have to pay them with a tin of dip and 6-pack of Budweiser.

FIFY... accuracy.

Baldy wrote:

Appaholic wrote:
You're right Baldy, with the exorbitant cost of US medical care, you should never hear about someone in America having to clean their hospital room upon leaving. However, if you pay nothing out of pocket, it would be a minor inconvenience & nothing more in Finland. You used weak examples to suport your claim that socialized medicine is inferior. You were promptly countered with exmples from the World Class US healthcare system. While I agree with your premise that socialized healthcare is inferior, as a matter of principle & craftsmanship, I couldn't let you slide with your weak examples. Don't be lazy, you're better than that....

The main premise was the patient having to clean their own room. The other examples were of a different topic, and I shouldn't have included them. With that said, the US does have the best healthcare system in the world. All you have to do is compare our survival rates for heart attacks and virtually every form of cancer. Measure our success rates for transplants, knee replacements, the shortest patient waiting lists in the world, etc, etc, etc. More Americans have won the Nobel Prize in medicine and physiology than every other country in the world combined. 8 of the top 10 prescribed pharmaceuticals in the world were invented and developed in the US. I could go on all day long....

Is that better?

With a few exceptions; like 44 countries having lower infant mortality rates than we do.

houndawg wrote:

Baldy wrote: The main premise was the patient having to clean their own room. The other examples were of a different topic, and I shouldn't have included them. With that said, the US does have the best healthcare system in the world. All you have to do is compare our survival rates for heart attacks and virtually every form of cancer. Measure our success rates for transplants, knee replacements, the shortest patient waiting lists in the world, etc, etc, etc. More Americans have won the Nobel Prize in medicine and physiology than every other country in the world combined. 8 of the top 10 prescribed pharmaceuticals in the world were invented and developed in the US. I could go on all day long....

Is that better?

With a few exceptions; like 44 countries having lower infant mortality rates than we do.

Do you know why?
Were you aware that there is no one standard in how infant mortality is calculated? A live birth in the US is a baby that shows any sign of life outside the womb, period. A live birth in most other countries are counted very differently. A premature baby under a certain size and/or weight and/or gestation time isn't even counted a a "live birth" in many countries. In some countries a live birth isn't considered a live birth unless the baby survives 7 days and other countries up to 30 days outside the womb. And still in others, a "live" birth requires that a baby have a heartbeat, breathing, and voluntary muscle movement. Another factor is that the US delivers more premature babies than other countries on average. The reasons vary from IVF problems to doctors inducing labor too early to drug and alcohol abuse, to apathy on the mother's part.

Infant mortality rates are VERY subjective, and are in no way an accurate measuring stick for the quality of healthcare a country provides, but you know as good as I that we won't hear those facts in the MSM...

Baldy wrote:

houndawg wrote:
With a few exceptions; like 44 countries having lower infant mortality rates than we do.

Do you know why?
Were you aware that there is no one standard in how infant mortality is calculated? A live birth in the US is a baby that shows any sign of life outside the womb, period. A live birth in most other countries are counted very differently. A premature baby under a certain size and/or weight and/or gestation time isn't even counted a a "live birth" in many countries. In some countries a live birth isn't considered a live birth unless the baby survives 7 days and other countries up to 30 days outside the womb. And still in others, a "live" birth requires that a baby have a heartbeat, breathing, and voluntary muscle movement. Another factor is that the US delivers more premature babies than other countries on average. The reasons vary from IVF problems to doctors inducing labor too early to drug and alcohol abuse, to apathy on the mother's part.

Infant mortality rates are VERY subjective, and are in no way an accurate measuring stick for the quality of healthcare a country provides, but you know as good as I that we won't hear those facts in the MSM...

The WHO uses a standard definition for it's rankings
.

Baldy wrote:

Appaholic wrote:
You're right Baldy, with the exorbitant cost of US medical care, you should never hear about someone in America having to clean their hospital room upon leaving. However, if you pay nothing out of pocket, it would be a minor inconvenience & nothing more in Finland. You used weak examples to suport your claim that socialized medicine is inferior. You were promptly countered with exmples from the World Class US healthcare system. While I agree with your premise that socialized healthcare is inferior, as a matter of principle & craftsmanship, I couldn't let you slide with your weak examples. Don't be lazy, you're better than that....

The main premise was the patient having to clean their own room. The other examples were of a different topic, and I shouldn't have included them. With that said, the US does have the best healthcare system in the world. All you have to do is compare our survival rates for heart attacks and virtually every form of cancer. Measure our success rates for transplants, knee replacements, the shortest patient waiting lists in the world, etc, etc, etc. More Americans have won the Nobel Prize in medicine and physiology than every other country in the world combined. 8 of the top 10 prescribed pharmaceuticals in the world were invented and developed in the US. I could go on all day long....

Is that better?

Yes, much better & I agree....

houndawg wrote:

Baldy wrote:
Do you know why?
Were you aware that there is no one standard in how infant mortality is calculated? A live birth in the US is a baby that shows any sign of life outside the womb, period. A live birth in most other countries are counted very differently. A premature baby under a certain size and/or weight and/or gestation time isn't even counted a a "live birth" in many countries. In some countries a live birth isn't considered a live birth unless the baby survives 7 days and other countries up to 30 days outside the womb. And still in others, a "live" birth requires that a baby have a heartbeat, breathing, and voluntary muscle movement. Another factor is that the US delivers more premature babies than other countries on average. The reasons vary from IVF problems to doctors inducing labor too early to drug and alcohol abuse, to apathy on the mother's part.

Infant mortality rates are VERY subjective, and are in no way an accurate measuring stick for the quality of healthcare a country provides, but you know as good as I that we won't hear those facts in the MSM...

The WHO uses a standard definition for it's rankings
.

No, the WHO compiles the information provided by the countries. Those countries gather the data by however means they deem fit. As I said, those countries do not follow a set standard.

The WHO does have a standard definition of a "live birth", but no country is compelled to follow that definition and almost none do. The US has a much stricter standard than the WHO definition, and many many other country have a more lax definition of a 'live birth'.

Baldy wrote:

houndawg wrote:

The WHO uses a standard definition for it's rankings
.

No, the WHO compiles the information provided by the countries. Those countries gather the data by however means they deem fit. As I said, those countries do not follow a set standard.

The WHO does have a standard definition of a "live birth", but no country is compelled to follow that definition and almost none do. The US has a much stricter standard than the WHO definition, and many many other country have a more lax definition of a 'live birth'.

I'd ask you for sources but I think we've been down this road before. Each side will come up with stats to defend their stance. Bottom line is there is very little evidence that our system is significantly better than other industrialized nations. But it is a hell of a lot more expensive and inefficient. Your example is anecdotal at best. But I will admit that Obama's plan probably isn't going to solve the problems either.