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"...Not a whisper, not a cough, not even the sound of someone shuffling in his seat could be heard as Staff Sgt. Patrick Zeigler, his cane gripped in his right hand and an extensive scar visible across his closely shaved head, carefully made his way to the witness stand....

Zeigler had just returned from his second deployment in Iraq and was at a Fort Hood center to get routine medical tests on Nov. 5, preparing to go to the Army's Officer Candidate School at Fort Benning, Ga. Then he heard someone shout "Allahu Akbar!" — "God is Great!" in Arabic, Zeigler testified.

He said he froze because he knew what that meant. But he thought it was a training drill until he saw a gunman lift a weapon with a laser that moved around the room, the red light crossing Zeigler's eyes.

"I could see it," Zeigler said. "I had no sense of time. But I felt like somebody hit me in the side of the head with a metal baseball bat."

Zeigler had been shot in the head. He said he hit the ground and heard screaming, that he tried to crawl but eventually lost consciousness.

"I was in serious trouble. There was a pool of my own blood on the ground in front of me," he said.

Zeigler, who was shot three more times, was hospitalized for months and had surgery to remove about 20 percent of his brain. His left side was paralyzed and he had to learn over how to use his leg and arm. A shunt installed in his head recently was adjusted at Minnesota's Mayo Clinic by physicians using a magnet. ... "

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101015/ap_ ... d_shooting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kalm, buddy, is this what you called keeping us "safe from terrorist attack?"

kalm wrote: ...

5) And to use a Bush apology ,has so far, kept us safe from terrorist attack.

Sarah Palin and most of you - still listening to Fox and the WSJ, and still wrong.

Here, native, I got one better! Dead Iraqi girl, courtesy of the war brought on by your heroes W and Rummy and Cheney and Rove! At least that fvckin' GI is still alive!

Turn up your satire detector there Nate. I was making fun of the "Bush has kept us safe" meme. Besides, did the Ft. Hood gunmen turn only after Obama took office?

Your argument here is a big gigantic

Cap'n Cat wrote:Here, native, I got one better! Dead Iraqi girl, courtesy of the war brought on by your heroes W and Rummy and Cheney and Rove! At least that fvckin' GI is still alive!

I expect nothing less from you, Cap. You are not worthy to cleanse that G.I. hero's annal cavity with your tongue.

Behind all your BS, I suspect that you meant to imply American guilt and culpability for all casualties in the "War on Terror." While there is much to criticize in the policies of the Obama, Bush and Clinton administrations, the Islamic religion itself and "moderate" muslim adherents' failures to stem the activities of their own bad seeds is the fundamental causal factor.

kalm wrote:Turn up your satire detector there Nate. I was making fun of the "Bush has kept us safe" meme. Besides, did the Ft. Hood gunmen turn only after Obama took office?

Your argument here is a big gigantic

I do appreciate your satire, kalm! But your point in the thread was about facts. The fact is that there has been a successful Islamic terrorist attack on U.S. soil on Obama's watch. It killed 13 and wounded 30 innocents.

It is a fact that Major Hasan verbalized reasons for his attack which can be accurately characterized as Islamic Terrorism.

It is a fact that the perpetrator, Major Nidal Hasan, exhibited signs of potential violence which were observed and recognized but not effectively reported.

Although it cannot be ascertained whether the environment of political correctness ushered in under the Obama administration is the primary causal factor for the lack of effective reporting in the Hasan case, it is certainly a question worth exploration and discussion.

native wrote:

Cap'n Cat wrote:Here, native, I got one better! Dead Iraqi girl, courtesy of the war brought on by your heroes W and Rummy and Cheney and Rove! At least that fvckin' GI is still alive!

I expect nothing less from you, Cap. You are not worthy to cleanse that G.I. hero's annal cavity with your tongue.

Behind all your BS, I suspect that you meant to imply American guilt and culpability for all casualties in the "War on Terror." While there is much to criticize in the policies of the Bush administration, the Islamic religion itself and "moderate" muslim adherents' failures to stem the activities of their own bad seeds is the fundamental causal factor.

And The Cap'n expects nothing more than the flag-wrapped bullshit eminating from your pie hole, native. If you knew anything about history and Eastern civilization, you'd know the answer about "the activities" of their bad seeds. They don't share our history, the only thing by which you measure ANYTHING foreign, you dope.

Regarding cleansing that Conk puppet's anus, it will be done by you and the Fox News crowd much more thoroughly than I ever could.

Cap'n Cat wrote:...If you knew anything about history and Eastern civilization, you'd know the answer about "the activities" of their bad seeds. They don't share our history, the only thing by which you measure ANYTHING foreign, you dope...

We actually agree, Cap. Muslims do not share our history. Their religion and history is the only one of which I am aware that so tightly binds religion with politics and law, as a result of which muslim history is one of unending conquest and enslavement.

I do not disparage everything foreign, Cap. That is a mischaracterization.

native wrote:

Cap'n Cat wrote:...If you knew anything about history and Eastern civilization, you'd know the answer about "the activities" of their bad seeds. They don't share our history, the only thing by which you measure ANYTHING foreign, you dope...

We actually agree, Cap. Muslims do not share our history. Their religion and history is the only one of which I am aware that so tightly binds religion with politics and law, as a result of which muslim history is one of unending conquest and enslavement.
I do not disparage everything foreign, Cap. That is a mischaracterization.

kalm wrote:

native wrote:
We actually agree, Cap. Muslims do not share our history. Their religion and history is the only one of which I am aware that so tightly binds religion with politics and law, as a result of which muslim history is one of unending conquest and enslavement.
I do not disparage everything foreign, Cap. That is a mischaracterization.

Somebody seems surprised.

CID1990 wrote:

kalm wrote:

Somebody seems surprised.

At Native's lack of historical appreciation.

kalm wrote:

CID1990 wrote:
Somebody seems surprised.

At Native's lack of historical appreciation.

I do appreciate Ataturk, kalm, and I appreciate many of the accomplishments of the "moderate" Caliphates.

You do appreciate the fact, I hope, that even the "moderate" Caliphates have been violent and unfair to non-muslims, and that every "moderate" Caliphate has been replaced by a violent jihadist regime?

You do understand that Mohammad's motivation was conquest, and that sharia law is inextricable from Islam and inherently discriminatory against non-muslims?

Unlike the Buddhist reaction to Hindu excesses, the America-forced reformation of Shintoism, the Protestant Reformation, and internal Catholic reforms sometimes referred to as the Catholic Reformation, there has been no Islamic "reformation," and none is apparent onthe horizon.

Even today, Ataturk's little experiment in secular muslim government, brutal in its own right, is jeopardized by jihadists.

native wrote:

kalm wrote:
At Native's lack of historical appreciation.

I do appreciate Ataturk, kalm, and I appreciate many of the accomplishments of the "moderate" Caliphates.

You do appreciate the fact, I hope, that even the "moderate" Caliphates have been violent and unfair to non-muslims, and that every "moderate" Caliphate has been replaced by a violent jihadist regime?

You do understand that Mohammad's motivation was conquest, and that sharia law is inextricable from Islam and inherently discriminatory against non-muslims?

Unlike the Buddhist reaction to Hindu excesses, the America-forced reformation of Shintoism, the Protestant Reformation, and internal Catholic reforms sometimes referred to as the Catholic Reformation, there has been no Islamic "reformation," and none is apparent onthe horizon.

Even today, Ataturk's little experiment in secular muslim government, brutal in its own right, is jeopardized by jihadists.

Whatever, Super Hornet.

native wrote:

kalm wrote:
At Native's lack of historical appreciation.

I do appreciate Ataturk, kalm, and I appreciate many of the accomplishments of the "moderate" Caliphates.

You do appreciate the fact, I hope, that even the "moderate" Caliphates have been violent and unfair to non-muslims, and that every "moderate" Caliphate has been replaced by a violent jihadist regime?

You do understand that Mohammad's motivation was conquest, and that sharia law is inextricable from Islam and inherently discriminatory against non-muslims?

Unlike the Buddhist reaction to Hindu excesses, the America-forced reformation of Shintoism, the Protestant Reformation, and internal Catholic reforms sometimes referred to as the Catholic Reformation, there has been no Islamic "reformation," and none is apparent onthe horizon.

Even today, Ataturk's little experiment in secular muslim government, brutal in its own right, is jeopardized by jihadists.

Indeed there are so many problems with Islam it's hard to even get it down to a handful - however - the solution is definitely NOT hating Islam so much that we become a mirror image of them as a reaction

Presently in America a see lots of ignorant angry anti-islamics who's dream is to create an America that is exactly 180 degrees different... which by definition is the same thing (we all become what we hate)

Chizzang wrote:

native wrote:
I do appreciate Ataturk, kalm, and I appreciate many of the accomplishments of the "moderate" Caliphates.

You do appreciate the fact, I hope, that even the "moderate" Caliphates have been violent and unfair to non-muslims, and that every "moderate" Caliphate has been replaced by a violent jihadist regime?

You do understand that Mohammad's motivation was conquest, and that sharia law is inextricable from Islam and inherently discriminatory against non-muslims?

Unlike the Buddhist reaction to Hindu excesses, the America-forced reformation of Shintoism, the Protestant Reformation, and internal Catholic reforms sometimes referred to as the Catholic Reformation, there has been no Islamic "reformation," and none is apparent onthe horizon.

Even today, Ataturk's little experiment in secular muslim government, brutal in its own right, is jeopardized by jihadists.

Indeed there are so many problems with Islam it's hard to even get it down to a handful - however - the solution is definitely NOT hating Islam so much that we become a mirror image of them as a reaction.

Agreed.

Chizzang wrote:
Presently in America a see lots of ignorant angry anti-islamics who's dream is to create an America that is exactly 180 degrees different... which by definition is the same thing (we all become what we hate)

What exactly do you mean? ..."Progressive" and libertarian idiots mindless of the dangers of sharia law, who blindly embrace political Islam for no reason other than to poke a stick in the eye of conks and neo-conks? Neanderthal conks who hate Islam without knowing anything about it? Neither? Both?

What do you mean by "an America that is exactly 180 degrees different?" Although Jefferson and Madison had plenty of opportunity to gain a real life understanding of Islam during the Barbary Wars, Sharia law was something the founders failed to sufficiently ponder prior to the creation of the Constitution.

Cap'n Cat wrote:

native wrote:
I expect nothing less from you, Cap. You are not worthy to cleanse that G.I. hero's annal cavity with your tongue.

Behind all your BS, I suspect that you meant to imply American guilt and culpability for all casualties in the "War on Terror." While there is much to criticize in the policies of the Bush administration, the Islamic religion itself and "moderate" muslim adherents' failures to stem the activities of their own bad seeds is the fundamental causal factor.

And The Cap'n expects nothing more than the flag-wrapped bullshit eminating from your pie hole, native. If you knew anything about history and Eastern civilization, you'd know the answer about "the activities" of their bad seeds. They don't share our history, the only thing by which you measure ANYTHING foreign, you dope.

Regarding cleansing that Conk puppet's anus, it will be done by you and the Fox News crowd much more thoroughly than I ever could.

I let you and your brother get away with your personal attacks against me and political figures with little or no retaliation in kind, but you crossed a line making a personal attack against the wounded G.I., Cap.

If I were a good Christian, I would be able to forgive you. I have indeed considered how I could so so, but in all honesty, I am not that good of a Christian, and I think Christians sometimes "turn the other cheek" because they are fvcking cowards.

Regardless of my feelings, or anyone's religion, your comment was inappropriate and unnecessary. For your own (presumably secular) redemption, you owe an apology to everyone on this board. Show us that you are truly the big man you claim to be and make it happen!

Thatta boy Nate. I think he deserves a taste of your leather!

kalm wrote:Thatta boy Nate. I think he deserves a taste of your leather!

That's about as stern as it's gonna get.

I don't know what to think of Cap and his brother. Although they claim the intellectual and moral high ground, their words and actions don't match their professions of superiority. They are only rarely funny. They are even more rarely intellectual. They assume but do not demonstrate a mastery of facts. Their confident conclusions assume but do not articulate sound analyses of difficult issues. They are not particularly intellectually provocative, but they persistently strive to be viscerally provocative. They are not afraid to constantly make absolute fools of themselves. The end result is that they are almost exclusively rude bullies, but I don't really think that is what they want. Go figure.

native wrote:

kalm wrote:Thatta boy Nate. I think he deserves a taste of your leather!

That's about as stern as it's gonna get.

I don't know what to think of Cap and his brother. Although they claim the intellectual and moral high ground, their words and actions don't match their professions of superiority. They are only rarely funny. They are even more rarely intellectual. They assume but do not demonstrate a mastery of facts. Their confident conclusions assume but to not articulate sound analyses of difficult issues. They are not particularly intellectually provocative, but they persistently strive to be viscerally provocative. They are not afraid to constantly make absolute fools of themselves. The end result is that they are almost exclusively rude bullies, but I don't really think that is what they want. Go figure.

Obviously one of their goals is simply to baffle and frustrate you
Which they have mastered
The other is to entertain themselves
Which they have mastered

That's about all there is to it... it's not that complicated

Chizzang wrote:

native wrote:
That's about as stern as it's gonna get.

I don't know what to think of Cap and his brother. Although they claim the intellectual and moral high ground, their words and actions don't match their professions of superiority. They are only rarely funny. They are even more rarely intellectual. They assume but do not demonstrate a mastery of facts. Their confident conclusions assume but to not articulate sound analyses of difficult issues. They are not particularly intellectually provocative, but they persistently strive to be viscerally provocative. They are not afraid to constantly make absolute fools of themselves. The end result is that they are almost exclusively rude bullies, but I don't really think that is what they want. Go figure.

Obviously one of their goals is simply to baffle and frustrate you
Which they have mastered
The other is to entertain themselves
Which they have mastered

That's about all there is to it... it's not that complicated

They baffle me alright. I'll cop to that.

They used to frustrate me, but not anymore.

If that is how they entertain themselves it does not speak well of them.

The word "jealousy" comes to mind.

native wrote:Although it cannot be ascertained whether the environment of political correctness ushered in under the Obama administration is the primary causal factor for the lack of effective reporting in the Hasan case, it is certainly a question worth exploration and discussion.

Or maybe our military isn't quite up to the task of protecting it's own bases & personnel as they continue to buidl schools & wells in Crapistan after 8 years of "war".....

Appaholic wrote:

native wrote:Although it cannot be ascertained whether the environment of political correctness ushered in under the Obama administration is the primary causal factor for the lack of effective reporting in the Hasan case, it is certainly a question worth exploration and discussion.

Or maybe our military isn't quite up to the task of protecting it's own bases & personnel as they continue to buidl schools & wells in Crapistan after 8 years of "war".....

Yours is a legitimate question, Appy, but it really has nothing to do with Hasan, does it?

The kinds of military folks who are forward deployed, either in combat or rebuilding crapistan, are not the career track health care professionals who were well aware of Hasan's dangerous attitudes and poor performance but did nothing about it.

native wrote:

Appaholic wrote:
Or maybe our military isn't quite up to the task of protecting it's own bases & personnel as they continue to buidl schools & wells in Crapistan after 8 years of "war".....

Yours is a legitimate question, Appy, but it really has nothing to do with Hasan, does it?

The kinds of military folks who are forward deployed, either in combat or rebuilding crapistan, are not the career track health care professionals who were well aware of Hasan's dangerous attitudes and poor performance but did nothing about it.

PC under Obama....SMFH. What a delusional, finger-pointing fvck.

Cap'n Cat wrote:

native wrote:
Yours is a legitimate question, Appy, but it really has nothing to do with Hasan, does it?

The kinds of military folks who are forward deployed, either in combat or rebuilding crapistan, are not the career track health care professionals who were well aware of Hasan's dangerous attitudes and poor performance but did nothing about it.

PC under Obama....SMFH. What a delusional, finger-pointing fvck.

Have you examined the case, Cap? Do you actually think a non-muslim officer would get the same passes Hasan got?