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SAINT PAUL, Minn. -- Thousands of parishioners in the Twin Cities may soon be going to a new church. A massive Catholic Church restructuring project was announced Saturday.
The Archdiocese of Saint Paul and Minneapolis plans to close 21 Catholic churches. They will be merged with several other parishes.


Reasons: Lack of priests, low attendance.

Discuss.




"Is there an echo in HERE? Here, Here, Here, Here...........?"

Same thing is happening here in Baltimore. Not enough priests to serve the Masses. They are talking about cutting back on how many Masses are on Sunday. I'm thinking my parish is going to go from four to two on Sunday and the smaller church down the street that we are sharing our pastor with goes to one. Ours is a big church that seat 500 and each of the four Masses on Sunday gets in the 275-350 range for attendance.

If they ended the celibacy requirement, there would be plenty of priests...

dbackjon wrote:If they ended the celibacy requirement, there would be plenty of priests...

Agree totally. Its ridiculous.

DJH wrote:

dbackjon wrote:If they ended the celibacy requirement, there would be plenty of priests...

Agree totally. Its ridiculous.

And, kick up the respect for women a bit, be more tolerant of reproductive freedom, impose a moratorium on penetration of altar boy anuses, spend money internally instead of on political objectives.

Cap'n Cat wrote:

DJH wrote:
Agree totally. Its ridiculous.

And, kick up the respect for women a bit, be more tolerant of reproductive freedom, impose a moratorium on penetration of altar boy anuses, spend money internally instead of on political objectives.

And if it's a west coast church, move it to Mondays. There are always a ton of 10:00 PST NFL games and besides many otherwise god fearing folks are busy adjusting their ff line-ups.

Cap'n Cat wrote:

DJH wrote:
Agree totally. Its ridiculous.

And, kick up the respect for women a bit, be more tolerant of reproductive freedom, impose a moratorium on penetration of altar boy anuses, spend money internally instead of on political objectives.

Great point on women priests - many other branches of Christianity would have shortages of ministers if they didn't allow female ministers.

Hello - Rome...21st Century is calling.

Some of these vacant churches would make kick-*ss strip clubs.

Cap'n Cat wrote:http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article ... yid=877618



SAINT PAUL, Minn. -- Thousands of parishioners in the Twin Cities may soon be going to a new church. A massive Catholic Church restructuring project was announced Saturday.
The Archdiocese of Saint Paul and Minneapolis plans to close 21 Catholic churches. They will be merged with several other parishes.


Reasons: Lack of priests, low attendance.

Discuss.




"Is there an echo in HERE? Here, Here, Here, Here...........?"

To be accurate, if you read the article, the closures are of inner-city churches that use to serve urban Catholic populations, which have moved to the suburbs as the socio-economic standing of Catholic immigrants in this country has changed. Notice the reference to some suburban parishes which have over 7,000 families. This type of re-structuring is necessary as Catholic demographics change, and Catholic families continue to move to the suburbs.

He said reorganization is needed because while some parishes in the suburbs have 7,000 families, some in the cities have as few as 200.

St. Austin in Minneapolis has about 300 families and is one of the churches on the list.

For as long as data is available, the statistics continue to reflect that Catholics are about 25% of the overall US population, and that on any given Sunday, about 50 percent of Catholics say they attended church during the past week (35% say they attend every week). Currently, there about 76,000,000 Catholics in the United States, which mean about 38,000,000 say they attended church during the last week.

Contrary to your inferences, in raw numbers, the numbers of Catholics in church on any given Sunday continues to rise on an annual basis.

Was expecting a rationalization post, Joe. I think we all were.

Bottom line: Lack of priests because the life sucks. Dwindling attendance. Only old folks go to the old churches. Next, the outer ring of older suburbs will experience church closings, followed in a couple decades by the mega-money castles in the rich 'burbs. Doesn't look good for Catholicism in America.

Cap'n Cat wrote:Was expecting a rationalization post, Joe. I think we all were.

Bottom line: Lack of priests because the life sucks. Dwindling attendance. Only old folks go to the old churches. Next, the outer ring of older suburbs will experience church closings, followed in a couple decades by the mega-money castles in the rich 'burbs. Doesn't look good for Catholicism in America.

These are the facts, not rationalization.

There are more Catholics in the United States today than ever, and church attendance in raw numbers is at an all-time high. Churches close in the cities because the Catholic populations now live elsewhere.

I was at the 6:30 p.m. youth mass last night at my church. The place was packed so that the overflow area was needed. Many, many of the attendees were teenagers and young adults (maybe half?).

JoltinJoe wrote:

Cap'n Cat wrote:Was expecting a rationalization post, Joe. I think we all were.

Bottom line: Lack of priests because the life sucks. Dwindling attendance. Only old folks go to the old churches. Next, the outer ring of older suburbs will experience church closings, followed in a couple decades by the mega-money castles in the rich 'burbs. Doesn't look good for Catholicism in America.

These are the facts, not rationalization.

There are more Catholics in the United States today than ever, and church attendance in raw numbers is at an all-time high. Churches close in the cities because the Catholic populations now live elsewhere.

I was at the 6:30 p.m. youth mass last night at my church. The place was packed so that the overflow area was needed. Many, many of the attendees were teenagers and young adults (maybe half?).

Because it's a rich suburb, Joe, and all the old-timers are being pushed out there. It will decline soon enough, once those young adults go to college and see the folly of their parents' beliefs. Count on it. We'll have this same conversation in 20 years, my good friend.

This isn't a Catholic-only phenomenon. The same thing is happening in many mainline denominations. (Except maybe for the consolidation. In many places, churches are closing simply because the numbers are too low for their existance to be tenable.)

There's an interesting phenomenon going on in some places, though. This is a two-direction thing that seems counter-intuitive. Churches that have traditionally had Sunday evening services are dumping them, and churches that have never had them are adding them. BOTH are growing as a result. I don't think anyone really knows why.

And, yes, Cap'n, there ARE young folk that like the traditional buildings. Certainly not all of them. But yet another example of a generalization gone bad.

SuperHornet wrote:This isn't a Catholic-only phenomenon. The same thing is happening in many mainline denominations. (Except maybe for the consolidation. In many places, churches are closing simply because the numbers are too low for their existance to be tenable.)

There's an interesting phenomenon going on in some places, though. This is a two-direction thing that seems counter-intuitive. Churches that have traditionally had Sunday evening services are dumping them, and churches that have never had them are adding them. BOTH are growing as a result. I don't think anyone really knows why.

And, yes, Cap'n, there ARE young folk that like the traditional buildings. Certainly not all of them. But yet another example of a generalization gone bad.

Not a generalization gone bad, my Hornet friend, but, rather, a generalization that has yet to materialize. It will.

SuperHornet wrote:And, yes, Cap'n, there ARE young folk that like the traditional buildings. Certainly not all of them. But yet another example of a generalization gone bad.

Agree. Can't stand the "Praise" style of worship that is more prevalant in today's younger churches. You don't wear shorts to church on Sunday morning. And if the service doesn't contain at least one stanzaof "The Old Rugged Cross", it's seriously lacking....

Cap'n Cat wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:
These are the facts, not rationalization.

There are more Catholics in the United States today than ever, and church attendance in raw numbers is at an all-time high. Churches close in the cities because the Catholic populations now live elsewhere.

I was at the 6:30 p.m. youth mass last night at my church. The place was packed so that the overflow area was needed. Many, many of the attendees were teenagers and young adults (maybe half?).

Because it's a rich suburb, Joe, and all the old-timers are being pushed out there. It will decline soon enough, once those young adults go to college and see the folly of their parents' beliefs. Count on it. We'll have this same conversation in 20 years, my good friend.

Yea, let's have this discussion in about 20 years. It's always the same. Pundits predict the inevitable decline of Catholicism. Here's an article from 34 years ago in which many pundits quoted predicted the fall of Catholicism in the United States, at a time when there were 49 million Catholics. There are now 76 million.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 31,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But, what was the population 34 years ago, Jose'????????? It's expanded dramatically.

Also, for the first time, the Church chooses to count all the Hispanics running around. VERY LITTLE of it is organic growth, Joe, the most important kind - it's all proportional to the population.

We'll just have to see in 34 years when Commander Cat and JoltinJunior are dukin' it out on here about it!!!!

Cap'n Cat wrote:But, what was the population 34 years ago, Jose'????????? It's expanded dramatically.

Also, for the first time, the Church chooses to count all the Hispanics running around. VERY LITTLE of it is organic growth, Joe, the most important kind - it's all proportional to the population.

We'll just have to see in 34 years when Commander Cat and JoltinJunior are dukin' it out on here about it!!!!

It's funny when the issue is how many Catholics have left the Church, the most important number is the "gross" and is never stated as a percentage. But according to the Pew Report, Catholicism retains 67% of its native-born members, making it the fifth best denomination in retaining its native-born members. If the total number of lapsed Catholics in the US (about 30,000,000 or about 10% of the population) is so many, it is because 1 out of every 3 Americans is born Catholic, and 1 out of every 3 native born Catholics leave the Church (while 2/3 stay).

So when we talk about the growth of Catholicism, why isn't the gross the most important?

In any event, in 1976, Catholics were about 25% of the total US population. And that figure holds today. Catholicism may have its problems, but the reports of people leaving the Church in droves are not really accurate.

In gross terms, there about 27,000,000 more Catholics in the US today than in 1976. Perhaps Catholicism, in percentage terms, isn't growing, but it is not decreasing either.

I would go even further and say, Joe, that your church has a rather "captive" audience, that is, captive to their policies on contraception, rather unique in the religious world. Another insidious and underhanded way to ensure full collection plates for generations.

Cap'n Cat wrote:But, what was the population 34 years ago, Jose'????????? It's expanded dramatically.

Also, for the first time, the Church chooses to count all the Hispanics running around. VERY LITTLE of it is organic growth, Joe, the most important kind - it's all proportional to the population.

We'll just have to see in 34 years when Commander Cat and JoltinJunior are dukin' it out on here about it!!!!

I think Commander Cat will be pretty laid back about it...Lt. Cat though, watch out. He has some real fire under him I think. I could see him being the best, or worst , of Cap, D, Tman, and Z all rolled into one

I go to church in Clemson, SC which is a melting pot with the University there and our Mass services, 4 on Sunday during the school year, range from all races to all ages. Heck, we just purchased, well...working on it, we have the tract, for a long overdue new church because our crowds are so huge on Sunday that we simply don't have the room.

Great to see to. Yep, really dying ain't it atheist trash.

God is on the throne, you ain't, and that's life you porn addicted blowhard waste of oxygen. In other words, Love ya man!

catamount man wrote:I go to church in Clemson, SC which is a melting pot with the University there and our Mass services, 4 on Sunday during the school year, range from all races to all ages. Heck, we just purchased, well...working on it, we have the tract, for a long overdue new church because our crowds are so huge on Sunday that we simply don't have the room.

Great to see to. Yep, really dying ain't it atheist trash.

God is on the throne, you ain't, and that's life you porn addicted blowhard waste of oxygen. In other words, Love ya man!

About 2-3 new churches a year go up in my neighborhood. Can't swing a dead cat without hitting a church. All the best places to go dirt biking and horseback riding have been paved over and are now crowded messes on Sunday morning.

Perhaps the phenomenon being experienced in Minneapolis is because, well.....to put it kindly.....


IT'S MINNEAPOLIS.
Seriously. Who in their right MIND would want to live there?

AZGrizFan wrote:
IT'S MINNEAPOLIS.
Seriously. Who in their right MIND would want to live there?

Everyone in North Dakota.

AZGrizFan wrote:About 2-3 new churches a year go up in my neighborhood. Can't swing a dead cat without hitting a church. All the best places to go dirt biking and horseback riding have been paved over and are now crowded messes on Sunday morning.

Perhaps the phenomenon being experienced in Minneapolis is because, well.....to put it kindly.....


IT'S MINNEAPOLIS.
Seriously. Who in their right MIND would want to live there?

Man, bitch, you ain't spent but three hours in your life in Minnesota and that was all on layovers at the MSP. Come up for a long weekend anytime of the year and D and Gil and I will show you mondo Minnesota, you desert rat chauvinist fvck. Superior National Forest, North Shore, Mille Lacs, BWCA, Ely, Finland, Iron Range, Mesabi, Winnibegoshish, Virginia, Leech Lake, Rainy River, Twin Cities......