Bush: "Damn Right I Approved Waterboarding!"

[native]

...and said he would "do it again to save lives."

Bush made the comment while speaking to the Economic Club of Grand Rapids, Michigan.

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[93henfan]

Approve.

[BlueHen86]

So far I am the only 'no' vote. I wouldn't want someone to torture me, so I don't think I should torture anyone else.

[GrizFanStuckInUtah]

Nobody is more disturbed over the use of Atomic bombs than I am but I was greatly disturbed over the unwarranted attack by the Japanese on Pearl Harbor and their murder of our prisoners of war. The only language they seem to understand is the one we have been using to bombard them.

Just a little contrast from a previous war.

[93henfan]

So far I am the only 'no' vote. I wouldn't want someone to torture me, so I don't think I should torture anyone else.

I'm not of the opinion that this particular interrogation technique is torture when properly applied.

Doing it wrong, or doing it 200 times with the same result might be torture.

I support properly applied interrogation of suspected terrorists and enemy combatants with potential valuable information.

[ToTheLeft]

So far I am the only 'no' vote. I wouldn't want someone to torture me, so I don't think I should torture anyone else.

I'm not of the opinion that this particular interrogation technique is torture when properly applied.

Doing it wrong, or doing it 200 times with the same result might be torture.

I support properly applied interrogation of suspected terrorists and enemy combatants with potential valuable information.

I was a bit torn on whether I should put yes or no, but this sums it up well.

When used correctly it's perfectly fine. I shouldn't let those who abuse it blur my thoughts as to the merits and possible benefits of the process and the information it could reap.

[native]

So far I am the only 'no' vote. I wouldn't want someone to torture me, so I don't think I should torture anyone else.

I don't think you will be blowing up office buildings or slitting journalists' throats, either, BlueHen.

[GrizFanStuckInUtah]

The world can bitch all they want about our methods and what we do. Personally, I think we do a pretty good job of policing ourselves. God help them if we decide to not be the good guy for a change.

[BlueHen86]

So far I am the only 'no' vote. I wouldn't want someone to torture me, so I don't think I should torture anyone else.

I'm not of the opinion that this particular interrogation technique is torture when properly applied.

Doing it wrong, or doing it 200 times with the same result might be torture.

I support properly applied interrogation of suspected terrorists and enemy combatants with potential valuable information.

I am not familiar with the nuances of the proper, or improper, application of it. If the proper application involves tasty waves and cool buds I 'm okay with it, otherwise no.

[Skjellyfetti]

So far I am the only 'no' vote. I wouldn't want someone to torture me, so I don't think I should torture anyone else.

I'm not of the opinion that this particular interrogation technique is torture when properly applied.

Doing it wrong, or doing it 200 times with the same result might be torture.

I support properly applied interrogation of suspected terrorists and enemy combatants with potential valuable information.

Christopher Hitchens was of the same opinion... until he agreed to be waterboarded.
[youtube][/youtube]

I'd like to hear y'all's reasoning that it's not torture.

[native]

I'm not of the opinion that this particular interrogation technique is torture when properly applied.

Doing it wrong, or doing it 200 times with the same result might be torture.

I support properly applied interrogation of suspected terrorists and enemy combatants with potential valuable information.

Christopher Hitchens was of the same opinion... until he agreed to be waterboarded.
[youtube][/youtube]

I'd like to hear y'all's reasoning that it's not torture.

Been there and done that, along with thousands of other SERE graduates.

Hitchens is a pussy.

[griz37]

They are the enemy! I am in favor of doing whatever it takes to defeat them.

[BlueHen86]

They are the enemy! I am in favor of doing whatever it takes to defeat them.

Whatever you choose to do, you leave yourself open to the same thing. If you choose to torture, you can't complain when someone tortures you. If you okay the use of torture, you must be willing to accept the torture of our troops - or civilians who happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[native]

They are the enemy! I am in favor of doing whatever it takes to defeat them.

Whatever you choose to do, you leave yourself open to the same thing. If you choose to torture, you can't complain when someone tortures you. If you okay the use of torture, you must be willing to accept the torture of our troops - or civilians who happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Your point is well taken, but in this case the enemy uses the barbarian methods you fear no matter what we do.

[BlueHen86]

Whatever you choose to do, you leave yourself open to the same thing. If you choose to torture, you can't complain when someone tortures you. If you okay the use of torture, you must be willing to accept the torture of our troops - or civilians who happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Your point is well taken, but in this case the enemy uses the barbarian methods you fear no matter what we do.

Maybe this particular enemy. But does every enemy we have use it? Seems to me, as soon as we start using it, we open the door for any potential enemy to use it, even 'civilized' nations that might not use it otherwise.

[Skjellyfetti]

Been there and done that, along with thousands of other SERE graduates.

And wasn't the point of the SERE training to teach graduates how to cope with and resist TORTURE techniques?

[93henfan]

Christopher Hitchens was of the same opinion... until he agreed to be waterboarded.
[youtube][/youtube]

I'd like to hear y'all's reasoning that it's not torture.

Been there and done that, along with thousands of other SERE graduates.

Hitchens is a pussy.

I've seen countless Marine recruits (no offense TampaJag, but most were brothers) flailing and choking in a pool, barely able to keep afloat, trying to pass initial swim qualification. I don't believe any DIs were court martialed for pushing them off the 10 foot platform.

[native]

Been there and done that, along with thousands of other SERE graduates.

And wasn't the point of the SERE training to teach graduates how to cope with and resist TORTURE techniques?

Cry me a fvcking river.

We beat the Japanese by being ruthless and brutal in combat, yet we did not stoop to their methods such as throwing children in the air and catching them on baoyonets, or cannibalizing prisoners, or performing vivisection on prisoners.

We can beat the Islamofascists in similar fashion, but not by being kinder and gentler.

[Skjellyfetti]

And wasn't the point of the SERE training to teach graduates how to cope with and resist TORTURE techniques?

Cry me a fvcking river.

Yes or no. Were they training you to cope with torture techniques?

[93henfan]

Cry me a fvcking river.

Yes or no. Were they training you to cope with torture techniques?

SERE is a classified course, in part. (particularly the part you're asking about)

[BlueHen86]

Yes or no. Were they training you to cope with torture techniques?

SERE is a classified course, in part. (particularly the part you're asking about)

So what you are saying is that if you tell him, you'd have to kill him?

I think that is okay, as long as you don't torture him first.

[Skjellyfetti]

Yes or no. Were they training you to cope with torture techniques?

SERE is a classified course, in part. (particularly the part you're asking about)

Ah, ok.

[AZGrizFan]

Having seen the video of the journalist who underwent waterboarding and lasted less than 15 seconds, I agree it's torture.

I also have no problem with us using it to extract information.

[93henfan]

SERE is a classified course, in part. (particularly the part you're asking about)

Ah, ok.

But like everything else classified, you can find out all about it on the intarwebs.

[Skjellyfetti]

What do y'all think about the Japanese we charged with torture for using waterboarding? Did we do that in error? Are the soldiers (including members of the Doolittle raid that testified to the technique and the suffering) pussies like Hitchens?

After World War II, we convicted several Japanese soldiers for waterboarding American and Allied prisoners of war. At the trial of his captors, then-Lt. Chase J. Nielsen, one of the 1942 Army Air Forces officers who flew in the Doolittle Raid and was captured by the Japanese, testified: "I was given several types of torture. . . . I was given what they call the water cure." He was asked what he felt when the Japanese soldiers poured the water. "Well, I felt more or less like I was drowning," he replied, "just gasping between life and death."

Nielsen's experience was not unique. Nor was the prosecution of his captors. After Japan surrendered, the United States organized and participated in the International Military Tribunal for the Far East, generally called the Tokyo War Crimes Trials. Leading members of Japan's military and government elite were charged, among their many other crimes, with torturing Allied military personnel and civilians. The principal proof upon which their torture convictions were based was conduct that we would now call waterboarding.

In this case from the tribunal's records, the victim was a prisoner in the Japanese-occupied Dutch East Indies:

A towel was fixed under the chin and down over the face. Then many buckets of water were poured into the towel so that the water gradually reached the mouth and rising further eventually also the nostrils, which resulted in his becoming unconscious and collapsing like a person drowned. This procedure was sometimes repeated 5-6 times in succession.

The United States (like Britain, Australia and other Allies) pursued lower-ranking Japanese war criminals in trials before their own tribunals. As a general rule, the testimony was similar to Nielsen's. Consider this account from a Filipino waterboarding victim:

Q: Was it painful?

A: Not so painful, but one becomes unconscious. Like drowning in the water.

Q: Like you were drowning?

A: Drowning -- you could hardly breathe.

Here's the testimony of two Americans imprisoned by the Japanese:

They would lash me to a stretcher then prop me up against a table with my head down. They would then pour about two gallons of water from a pitcher into my nose and mouth until I lost consciousness.

And from the second prisoner: They laid me out on a stretcher and strapped me on. The stretcher was then stood on end with my head almost touching the floor and my feet in the air. . . . They then began pouring water over my face and at times it was almost impossible for me to breathe without sucking in water.

As a result of such accounts, a number of Japanese prison-camp officers and guards were convicted of torture that clearly violated the laws of war. They were not the only defendants convicted in such cases. As far back as the U.S. occupation of the Philippines after the 1898 Spanish-American War, U.S. soldiers were court-martialed for using the "water cure" to question Filipino guerrillas.

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