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Why did the Democrats lose?

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:49 am
by kalm
There was a pretty good liberal-on-liberal cage match last week on Morning Joe between MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell and Salon's Glenn Greenwald about Greenwald calling out O'Donnell for his flawed analysis of why Democrats lost on election night. The argument is whether Democrats got punished for running to the right or because they are too liberal. Greenwald makes a fairly compelling case for the former in this excerpt from an article:

(if you click the link it will take you to the full article which has a link to the video of the confrontion - it's quite entertaining)
The self-absorption of America's ruling class

By Glenn Greenwald

...

People aren't running around thinking: who is a liberal and who is a conservative? They're running around thinking: we have no jobs and no economic security, and thus will punish those in power. As I made explicitly clear in my original post about (Lawrence) O'Donnell my objection to his comments was not that the massive loss of Blue Dogs proves that conservative Democrats can't win. Democrats didn't lose because they're "too conservative" any more than because they are "too liberal." My objection was that he was attempting to derive shallow meaning from the loss of specific liberal candidates -- see, voters don't like liberals! -- when that plainly was not what motivated voters; merely to negate his reasoning, I pointed out that if one did want to use O'Donnell's fundamentally flawed method (i.e., look at which candidates lost and that's how you know which ideology voters rejected), then one could far more easily make the case that they were rejecting conservative Democrats, since Blue Dogs are who bore the brunt of the bloodbath.

People are suffering economically and Democrats have done little about that. Beyond that, they failed to inspire their own voters to go to the polls. Therefore, they lost. By basing their power in Congress on Blue Dog dependence -- rather than advocating for the views of their own supporters and implementing those policies -- they failed, and failed resoundingly. Building their party around a large number of muddled, GOP-replicating corporatists not only creates a tepid and failed political image, but far worse, it prevents actual policies from being implemented that benefit large number of ordinary Americans. Democrats repeatedly refrained from advocating for such policies in deference to their Blue Dogs, failed to do much to alleviate the economic suffering of ordinary Americans, and thus got crushed. Anyone who thinks that Democrats lost because they were "too liberal" -- rather than because Americans are suffering so much economically -- is wildly out of touch, i.e., is a multi-millionaire cable TV personality who has spent decades wallowing in trite D.C. chatter.

The Republicans have long lived by what they call "The Buckley Rule": always support the furthest Right candidate who can plausibly win. This year, knowing that it would be a wave election, one that would sweep in huge numbers of Republicans in districts where they ordinarily couldn't get elected, they changed that to: support the furthest Right candidate, period. That's because they believe conservatism will work and want to advocate for it. Democrats don't do that. The DCCC constantly works to prop up the most "centrist" or conservative candidates -- i.e., corporatists -- on the ground that it's always better, more politically astute, to move to the Right. Even in the pro-Democratic wave years of 2006 and 2008, the Democratic Party blocked actual progressives and ensured that Blue Dogs were nominated, even though the anti-GOP sentiment was so strong that any Democrat, including progressives, could have won even in red districts (as Alan Grayson proved).

With that strategy, the Democratic Party now reaps what it has sown. Its message and identity are profoundly muddled, incoherent, unclear, uninspiring, and self-negating. Worse, its policies are mishmashes of inept half-measures that, with a handful of exceptions, produce little good for anyone (other than Wall Street, the Pentagon and other corporate interests). They are perceived as -- and are -- beholden to Wall Street, special interests, and the corporations they vowed to confront. They are without any ability to confront the massive unemployment crisis and financial decline the country faces. And as a result of all of that, they lay in shambles. Anyone who can survey all of that and cheer for the strategy which Democrats have been pursuing -- let's build our majorities by relying on GOP-replicating corporatist Blue Dogs -- or who thinks that this election loss happened because "Democrats are too liberal," resides in a world that has very little to do with reality. And that's true no matter how many times they repeat the simplistic snippets of exit polls to which they've obsessively attached themselves.
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Why did the Democrats lose?

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:00 am
by GannonFan
Seriously, that's a pretty dumb article. Blue Dog Democrats were the ones who lost because they were the ones who could lose. The most liberal of Democrats are in some of the most gerrymandered districts in the country (as are the most conservative Republicans as well) so they never lose. Republicans aren't winning elections in places like Philadelphia where Democrats get 80% of the vote - it's just not realistic. So the seats that change hands are the ones that are actually able of changing hands.

But seriously, the article's basic premise is that if the Democrats had been more liberal in the past 4 years they wouldn't have suffered the election loss they did. That's just loony. The article is right that not focusing on the economy and lessening people's hardships was the root of the loss, but then it seems to imply that they caved into conservative pressure and didn't try fixing the economy? So really, spending a year on pushing a health care reform was really pandering to the conservative base? Did the author really believe that when they wrote it? Trying to devise a way to institute cap and trade and have the EPA regulate CO2 in the midst of a severe economic downturn was a conservative initiative?

The Dems lost because they didn't focus on the economy and people didn't feel like the economy and unemployment were getting any better. And for pretty much all of 2008, the Dems had complete power in Washington and they didn't use it focus in on those things. The analysis shouldn't be this difficult.

Re: Why did the Democrats lose?

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:43 am
by Skjellyfetti
Because there was an anti-incumbent mentality in the voters... and Democrats had more incumbents.

Re: Why did the Democrats lose?

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:01 am
by Cap'n Cat
Barack Obama has been weak in the face of Conks. Needs a pair of balls. Conks are eating him up and calling the shots in HIS show.

That's my disappointment with the President - he doesn't fight for what he believes in.

Re: Why did the Democrats lose?

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:20 am
by Appaholic
Because more people are paying attention....

This is the third electionin a row that incumbants have been turned out on their ear (relative to elections past). Hopefully, the Repukes will take heed this time....

Re: Why did the Democrats lose?

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:22 am
by Cap'n Cat
Appaholic wrote:Because more people are paying attention....

This is the third electionin a row that incumbants have been turned out on their ear (relative to elections past). Hopefully, the Repukes will take heed this time....

I fear they won't, Appy. Certainly not according to their rhetoric.

Re: Why did the Democrats lose?

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:24 am
by CitadelGrad
The Dem rationalizations are hilarious. If they keep this up, they'll get waxed in 2012.

Re: Why did the Democrats lose?

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:26 am
by CitadelGrad
Skjellyfetti wrote:Because there was an anti-incumbent mentality in the voters... and Democrats had more incumbents.
How many GOP incumbents lost?

Re: Why did the Democrats lose?

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:27 am
by Cap'n Cat
CitadelGrad wrote:
Skjellyfetti wrote:Because there was an anti-incumbent mentality in the voters... and Democrats had more incumbents.
How many GOP incumbents lost?

Far fewer than deserved.

Re: Why did the Democrats lose?

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:11 am
by Ivytalk
Cap'n Cat wrote:
CitadelGrad wrote:
How many GOP incumbents lost?

Far fewer than deserved.
At one point, only 3 seats had shifted from GOP hands to Dem hands, including the DE seat vacated by Mike Castle's retirement. There may be a few more, given the handful of seats that haven't been called.

Both Blue Dogs and liberal Dems lost last week. The Alan Grayson loss was the best result of the night, in my view! :nod:

Re: Why did the Democrats lose?

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:12 am
by Chizzang
2 years ago we were talking about the death of the Republican Party...
Today we're talking about the death of The Democratic Party

One only need pay attention for a while to see the pendulum swing slowly back and forth :nod:

What actually seems to work best is GRIDLOCK
or
Balanced quantities of both Douche Bags



:coffee:

Re: Why did the Democrats lose?

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:19 am
by 89Hen
Cap'n Cat wrote:That's my disappointment with the President - he doesn't fight for what he believes in.
Change you can believe in.

Re: Why did the Democrats lose?

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:21 am
by Cap'n Cat
89Hen wrote:
Cap'n Cat wrote:That's my disappointment with the President - he doesn't fight for what he believes in.
Change you can believe in.

Yeah, Hen, and I'm man enough to admit here, publicly, my disappointment. The complete opposite of idiots like you and others who defend that numbskull Bush to this very day.

Believe that.

:coffee:

Re: Why did the Democrats lose?

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:24 am
by 89Hen
Cap'n Cat wrote:The complete opposite of idiots like you and others who defend that numbskull Bush to this very day.

Believe that.

:coffee:
Good luck finding that. :coffee: :coffee:

Re: Why did the Democrats lose?

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:25 am
by TheDancinMonarch
Ivytalk wrote:
Cap'n Cat wrote:

Far fewer than deserved.
At one point, only 3 seats had shifted from GOP hands to Dem hands, including the DE seat vacated by Mike Castle's retirement. There may be a few more, given the handful of seats that haven't been called.

Both Blue Dogs and liberal Dems lost last week. The Alan Grayson loss was the best result of the night, in my view! :nod:
And those 2 seats, Hawaii 1 and Louisiana 2, were only "accidentally" held by Republicans.

Re: Why did the Democrats lose?

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:27 am
by Cap'n Cat
89Hen wrote:
Cap'n Cat wrote:The complete opposite of idiots like you and others who defend that numbskull Bush to this very day.

Believe that.

:coffee:
Good luck finding that. :coffee: :coffee:

I have people who do that. You're the board's 2nd largest Conk apologist.

:coffee: :coffee:

Re: Why did the Democrats lose?

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:29 am
by 89Hen
Cap'n Cat wrote:I have people who do that. You're the board's 2nd largest Conk apologist.

:coffee: :coffee:
Top 5 maybe.

Re: Why did the Democrats lose?

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:33 am
by Cap'n Cat
89Hen wrote:
Cap'n Cat wrote:I have people who do that. You're the board's 2nd largest Conk apologist.

:coffee: :coffee:
Top 5 maybe.

:)

Re: Why did the Democrats lose?

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:43 am
by Baldy
Lawrence "I'm a Socialist" O'Donnell and Glen Greenwald.
Two peas in a pod having a catfight and getting it totally wrong...priceless. :lol:

Re: Why did the Democrats lose?

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:49 am
by Cap'n Cat
Baldy wrote:Lawrence "I'm a Socialist" O'Donnell and Glen Greenwald.
Two peas in a pod having a catfight and getting it totally wrong...priceless. :lol:
We're all socialists, Baldy. Even you. Think about it, son.

:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

Re: Why did the Democrats lose?

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:23 pm
by SuperHornet
Skjellyfetti wrote:Because there was an anti-incumbent mentality in the voters... and Democrats had more incumbents.
That's just a tad too simplistic. There's some evidence for that, but in some districts, there were other things going on, too. Remember that not every Donkey running lost. In fact, due to crazy population issues in SF and LA, the CA gubernatorial race (and ESPECIALLY the leftenant gubernatorial race) went to the Donkeys. The left-leaning people in SF and LA outnumber the conservatives in SD and the valley, and that told BIG time.

Re: Why did the Democrats lose?

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:36 pm
by native
Skjellyfetti wrote:Because there was an anti-incumbent mentality in the voters... and Democrats had more incumbents.
What a brilliant analysis. :roll: :lol: So far, Democrats have lost 61 of 250 seats held previously - nearly one-fourth of their number. Republicans lost 3 of 179 - less than two percent.

How do you manage to pass any classes in grad school, skelly? :dunce:

Re: Why did the Democrats lose?

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:01 pm
by Skjellyfetti
Image

Democrats:
43% favorable
52% unfavorable

Republicans:
42% favorable
53% unfavorable
:dunce:

Re: Why did the Democrats lose?

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:11 pm
by CitadelGrad
Skjellyfetti wrote:Image

Democrats:
43% favorable
52% unfavorable

Republicans:
42% favorable
53% unfavorable
:dunce:
Their unpopularity didn't exactly hurt them a week ago, did it?

Not really sure how this data supports your argument that the Dems were trounced because of anti-incumbent sentiment. It appears that the sentiment was against incumbent Democrats who didn't represent gerrymandered safe districts.

Re: Why did the Democrats lose?

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:17 pm
by Skjellyfetti
CitadelGrad wrote:It appears that the sentiment was against incumbent Democrats who didn't represent gerrymandered safe districts.
You think Democrats lost gerrymandered safe districts? Most of the districts they lost seats in voted for McCain in 2008.