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And, again, we pay another visit to the 11th century, courtesy of the RCC!



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NEW YORK — Citing a shortage of priests who can perform the rite, the nation's Roman Catholic bishops are sponsoring a conference on how to conduct exorcisms.

The two-day training, starting Friday in Baltimore, is to outline the scriptural basis of evil, instruct clergy on evaluating whether a person is truly possessed, and review the prayers and rituals that comprise an exorcism. Among the speakers will be Cardinal Daniel DiNardo, archbishop of Galveston-Houston, Texas, and a priest-assistant to New York Archbishop Timothy Dolan.

"Learning the liturgical rite is not difficult," DiNardo said in a phone interview. "The problem is the discernment that the exorcist needs before he would ever attempt the rite."

More than 50 bishops and 60 priests signed up to attend, according to Catholic News Service, which first reported the event. The conference was scheduled for just ahead of the fall meeting of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, which starts Monday in Baltimore.

Signs of demonic possession accepted by the church include violent reaction to holy water or anything holy, speaking in a language the possessed person doesn't know and abnormal displays of strength.

The full exorcism is held in private and includes sprinkling holy water, reciting Psalms, reading aloud from the Gospel, laying on of hands and reciting the Lord's Prayer. Some adaptations are allowed for different circumstances. The exorcist can invoke the Holy Spirit then blow in the face of the possessed person, trace the sign of the cross on the person's forehead and command the devil to leave.



Despite strong interest in the training, skepticism about the rite persists within the American church. Organizers of the event are keenly aware of the ridicule that can accompany discussion of the subject. Exorcists in U.S. dioceses keep a very low profile. In 1999, the church updated the Rite of Exorcism, cautioning that "all must be done to avoid the perception that exorcism is magic or superstition."





One reader's comment: "So...believing in supernatural possession by evil demons that can be driven out by "holy" water, prayer, and blowing in one's face is perfectly normal; belief in the veracity of something like, say, evolution, for which there is an exhaustive body of evidence, is godless ignorance. Got it."






"Your mother sucks liberal cocks in Hell!!!"

You do realize that the Catholic Church accepts evolution?

JoltinJoe wrote:You do realize that the Catholic Church accepts evolution?

Indeed,
The pope (can't remember which one) in about 1990 made a comment something to the effect that Evolution and Catholicism were not at odds with each other...

However: 40 some odd percent of Americans (if you can even imagine this) do not believe that Evolution and Christianity are compatible... so in effect Catholics are remarkably advanced when compared to your Average American Christian

Cap'n Cat wrote:Signs of demonic possession accepted by the church include... speaking in a language the possessed person doesn't know and abnormal displays of strength.

I wonder if they think those folks in those charismatic evangelical churches who talk in tongues and wallow around on the floor are possessed.

blueballs wrote:

Cap'n Cat wrote:Signs of demonic possession accepted by the church include... speaking in a language the possessed person doesn't know and abnormal displays of strength.

I wonder if they think those folks in those charismatic evangelical churches who talk in tongues and wallow around on the floor are possessed.

They sure act like.

JoltinJoe wrote:You do realize that the Catholic Church accepts evolution?

You do realize that's not the point of the story, right? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this obviously beneficial ritual......

JoltinJoe wrote:You do realize that the Catholic Church accepts evolution?

Do they take MasterCard, too?

The fact that any religion believes in this in 2010 in disturbing.

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Grizalltheway wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:You do realize that the Catholic Church accepts evolution?

Do they take MasterCard, too?

As a matter of fact, YES! My Archbishop's Appeal donation is charged to my Visa every month so I can get the miles.

http://www.adw.org/giving/appeal/giving/index.html

89Hen wrote:

Grizalltheway wrote:
Do they take MasterCard, too?

As a matter of fact, YES! My Archbishop's Appeal donation is charged to my Visa every month so I can get the miles.

http://www.adw.org/giving/appeal/giving/index.html

Blecch! You're up to your neck in that sh*t.

Cap'n Cat wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:You do realize that the Catholic Church accepts evolution?

You do realize that's not the point of the story, right? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this obviously beneficial ritual......

I find it amazing that, at the end of the most violent century in the history, when numerous, blood-thirsty regimes and leaders caused the deaths of tens of millions of people, that it has become "ridiculous" to believe that people can become possessed by evil -- or that there is even a force for evil which seeks to influence or control us.

JoltinJoe wrote:

Cap'n Cat wrote:

You do realize that's not the point of the story, right? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this obviously beneficial ritual......

I find it amazing that, at the end of the most violent century in the history, when numerous, blood-thirsty regimes and leaders caused the deaths of tens of millions of people, that it has become "ridiculous" to believe that people can become possessed by evil -- or that there is even a force for evil which seeks to influence or control us.

Are you talking about the Devil


have you ever read this cartoon... I love it - it's call sinfest

Chizzang wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:
I find it amazing that, at the end of the most violent century in the history, when numerous, blood-thirsty regimes and leaders caused the deaths of tens of millions of people, that it has become "ridiculous" to believe that people can become possessed by evil -- or that there is even a force for evil which seeks to influence or control us.

Are you talking about the Devil


have you ever read this cartoon... I love it - it's call sinfest

if you mean by the devil, a force for evil, yes, than I mean the devil. The devil isn't some character with horns and a pitchfork. He is a force which is beyond that depiction, something alluring and with power to influence the actions of people as a result. If we truly understood the ultimate essence of this force, and how he appears and represents himself to us, we might not fall for the allure of power, wealth, or other trappings. The Rolling Stones had it right when it depicted the devil as "a man of wealth and taste."

The "devil" appeals to our vanities. One of his slickest moves has been to convince "miodern" "intelligent" people that only a stupid fool would even believe in such a force for evil, even as the evil man has done to man reached new heights in the past century. Thus, there is not objective wrong' and it follows naturally that there is no objective truth.

JoltinJoe wrote:


if you mean by the devil, a force for evil, yes, than I mean the devil. The devil isn't some character with horns and a pitchfork. He is a force which is beyond that depiction, something alluring and with power to influence the actions of people as a result. If we truly understood the ultimate essence of this force, and how he appears and represents himself to us, we might not fall for the allure of power, wealth, or other trappings. The Rolling Stones had it right when it depicted the devil as "a man of wealth and taste."

The "devil" appeals to our vanities. One of his slickest moves has been to convince "miodern" "intelligent" people that only a stupid fool would even believe in such a force for evil, even as the evil man has done to man reached new heights in the past century. Thus, there is not objective wrong' and it follows naturally that there is no objective truth.

Sorry, Joe, but you're diseased.

Cap'n Cat wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:


if you mean by the devil, a force for evil, yes, than I mean the devil. The devil isn't some character with horns and a pitchfork. He is a force which is beyond that depiction, something alluring and with power to influence the actions of people as a result. If we truly understood the ultimate essence of this force, and how he appears and represents himself to us, we might not fall for the allure of power, wealth, or other trappings. The Rolling Stones had it right when it depicted the devil as "a man of wealth and taste."

The "devil" appeals to our vanities. One of his slickest moves has been to convince "modern" "intelligent" people that only a stupid fool would even believe in such a force for evil, even as the evil man has done to man reached new heights in the past century. Thus, there is not objective wrong; and it follows naturally that there is no objective truth.

Sorry, Joe, but you're diseased.

I know you're way too cool and way too smart to believe in an evil force.

Let's take a guy like Hitler or Stalin. Neither was possessed by evil or the allure of power, right?

You're too caught up with the concept of the "devil" as some character with horns ... God is a Santa Claus in the sky, and the devil is some reddish creature with horns and a pitchfork.

It's easy to call silly that which you don't care to understand, or that which you reduce to the cartoonish.

JoltinJoe wrote:

Cap'n Cat wrote:
Sorry, Joe, but you're diseased.

I know you're way too cool and way too smart to believe in an evil force.

Let's take a guy like Hitler or Stalin. Neither was possessed by evil or the allure of power, right?

You're too caught up with the concept of the "devil" as some character with horns ... God is a Santa Claus in the sky, and the devil is some reddish creature with horns and a pitchfork.

It's easy to call silly that which you don't care to understand, or that which you reduce to the cartoonish.

Blow me, Monsignor. There ain't no heaven, there ain't no hell, there ain't no God and there ain't no Devil. Evil forces come from within people, not because of some ghost. Get with it, Jose'.

This thread has taken an interesting turn...
I like where it's going

As you might already know I have no problem with God or the myriad of concepts of God - as you quoted me Joe - I kinda look at it like this: God is what is...

Cap'n Cat wrote:There ain't no heaven, there ain't no hell, there ain't no God and there ain't no Devil. Evil forces come from within people, not because of some ghost.

Got the makings of a good Neil Young or Bob Dylan song there.

JoltinJoe wrote:The Rolling Stones had it right when it depicted the devil as "a man of wealth and taste."

The Communists have gotten to JJ.

Cap'n Cat wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:
I know you're way too cool and way too smart to believe in an evil force.

Let's take a guy like Hitler or Stalin. Neither was possessed by evil or the allure of power, right?

You're too caught up with the concept of the "devil" as some character with horns ... God is a Santa Claus in the sky, and the devil is some reddish creature with horns and a pitchfork.

It's easy to call silly that which you don't care to understand, or that which you reduce to the cartoonish.

Blow me, Monsignor. There ain't no heaven, there ain't no hell, there ain't no God and there ain't no Devil. Evil forces come from within people, not because of some ghost. Get with it, Jose'.

See, this is a fundamental point of disagreement. Evil is not within us; it is a force from outside which corrupts us.

I look at my two sons, and they were not born with an evil thought in their mind.

Chizzang wrote:This thread has taken an interesting turn...
I like where it's going

As you might already know I have no problem with God or the myriad of concepts of God - as you quoted me Joe - I kinda look at it like this: God is what is...

I agree with your concept of God as "what is" 100%.

This is precisely the name God revealed in the Old Testament: "I am what is." "Yahweh."

JoltinJoe wrote:

Chizzang wrote:This thread has taken an interesting turn...
I like where it's going

As you might already know I have no problem with God or the myriad of concepts of God - as you quoted me Joe - I kinda look at it like this: God is what is...

I agree with your concept of God as "what is" 100%.

This is precisely the name God revealed in the Old Testament: "I am what is." "Yahweh."

Joe,
There are some cool things about making peace with that concept...
It allows for a huge measure of acceptance in my life - instead of resistance - just by coming to peace with that simple concept it allows me to experience happiness in almost any situation and be non-judgmental


Now of course I fail pretty regularly - but - I'm getting better at being in acceptance and in a state of peacefulness

JoltinJoe wrote:

Cap'n Cat wrote:
Blow me, Monsignor. There ain't no heaven, there ain't no hell, there ain't no God and there ain't no Devil. Evil forces come from within people, not because of some ghost. Get with it, Jose'.

See, this is a fundamental point of disagreement. Evil is not within us; it is a force from outside which corrupts us.

I look at my two sons, and they were not born with an evil thought in their mind.

They were born, too, without a religious thought in their minds, Joe. Religion is forced on them as they grow up and it corrupts them. That's where they get the idea of this "Devil" foolishness - same place they got the "God" foolishness.

Poor kids are hamstrung from the beginning with all that baggage, just like you and I were. Difference? I escaped, very happily.

If God is just "what is" and the devil is just evil. What about heaven and hell and purgatory? Are they real? What happens to our souls after we die?