Championship Subdivision Football | FCS Football | Stadiums | Blogs | Forums

Now that the election is over, an uneasy libertarian–Christian conservative alliance shows its cracks.

Earlier this month, a group of Tea Party activists put Congressional Republicans on notice with a terse letter reminding them not to take their eyes off the ball. The elected officials’ mission, the activists wrote, is to reduce spending, taxes, regulations, and the deficit, not to further the social-issues agenda of the Christian right.

The activists...had begun to worry about a social-values coup. In the days after the midterms, Senator Tea Party, as Jim DeMint of South Carolina is called, had been on Fox News saying, “You can’t be a fiscal conservative and not be a social conservative.” (The Washington-based Family Research Council backed him up, calling on “one million Americans to pray on a regular basis for Sen. DeMint” as he faced his critics.) On Nov. 3, 65 leading conservatives...wrote Rep. Boehner, Sen. McConnell, and Republican Governors Association chair Haley Barbour urging them to renew their “commitment to restoring traditional moral values” by banning abortion and same-sex marriage.

And so, the fight is on for the soul of the Tea Party. On one side: libertarian-minded grassroots activists. On the other: the leaders of the wealthy, powerful, and better-established Christian right, who’ve dominated conservative populism in the United States for decades

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/12/01/the- ... party.html

Social conservatives will either kill the tea party or take it over.....

Let the idiots on the left or right fight over the tails of the bell curve while most of us fall nearer the middle.

In other words, there's zero difference between the tea party and republican party.

kalm wrote:In other words, there's zero difference between the tea party and republican party.

Correct....but there is a big difference in conservatives & Conservatives....

Appaholic wrote:

kalm wrote:In other words, there's zero difference between the tea party and republican party.

Correct....but there is a big difference in conservatives & Conservatives....

The Big C versus little c statement is dead on. As to the other question, it is better posed as what is the Tea Party? and that is where the battle will be. There is no way traditional republicans (who aren't conversatives) and social conservatives won't attempt to co-opt the momentum. It will either be co-opted, it will die, or there will be a third party.

I'm not sure if they will kill it, but they might definitely dilute the message. It would be unconscionable for some piggy-back school prayer requirement to be the only way to pass fiscal and/or governmental reform measures.

However, I don't want to slide into the old liberal myth of thinking that the hardcore religious right is somehow behind every tree. I just don't see them as being that numerous, at least not in my experience.

BTW I absolutely disagree with DeMint's assertion.

Appaholic wrote:

kalm wrote:In other words, there's zero difference between the tea party and republican party.

Correct....but there is a big difference in conservatives & Conservatives....

Correct. A Conservative isn't necessarily a Republican. A Liberal isn't neccesarily a Democrat.

the tea party was a soulless bastard child of dc consulting firms... there's never been anything "grassroots" about it.

the only thing uniting the gop right now is the "us vs. them" dynamic... that's it. when the libertarians realize they've been had... again... by the fundies and the corporate conks... maybe the rift will break wide open... it's an unsustainable mix as a party - it resembles the dems in the early 60's with the southern democrats and the northern liberals... parties realign every generation or so and the gop in particular is long overdue for the reagan/bush coalition to collapse.

Appaholic wrote: In the days after the midterms, Senator Tea Party, as Jim DeMint of South Carolina is called, had been on Fox News saying, “You can’t be a fiscal conservative and not be a social conservative.”

Bullshit. I AM exactly that. Fiscal conservative, social moderate.

AZGrizFan wrote:Bullshit. I AM exactly that. Fiscal conservative, social moderate.

Pussy.

89Hen wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:Bullshit. I AM exactly that. Fiscal conservative, social moderate.

Pussy.

Allow me to clarify: I am first and foremost: a) Fiscal Conservative. I am NOT a moderate when it comes to any entitlement program that impacts (a). I AM a moderate when it comes to the government staying out of moral decisions like abortion, condoms, gay marriage, etc.

AZGrizFan wrote: I AM a moderate when it comes to the government staying out of moral decisions like abortion, condoms, gay marriage, etc.

don't forget child abuse

89Hen wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote: I AM a moderate when it comes to the government staying out of moral decisions like abortion, condoms, gay marriage, etc.

don't forget child abuse

Don't forget adult abuse (ie. Chuck E. Cheese).

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:the tea party was a soulless bastard child of dc consulting firms... there's never been anything "grassroots" about it.

the only thing uniting the gop right now is the "us vs. them" dynamic... that's it. when the libertarians realize they've been had... again... by the fundies and the corporate conks... maybe the rift will break wide open... it's an unsustainable mix as a party - it resembles the dems in the early 60's with the southern democrats and the northern liberals... parties realign every generation or so and the gop in particular is long overdue for the reagan/bush coalition to collapse.

Not real concerned about how it was created, but it certainly has brought people into the political arena that would not have been involved before. What I am concerned about that it stays true to its roots regardless of its origins. Smaller Government, original intent of the constitution. We have needed a small "l" libertarian movement in this country for a long time.

I do fear that other will co-opt the movement.

CID1990 wrote:I'm not sure if they will kill it, but they might definitely dilute the message. It would be unconscionable for some piggy-back school prayer requirement to be the only way to pass fiscal and/or governmental reform measures.

However, I don't want to slide into the old liberal myth of thinking that the hardcore religious right is somehow behind every tree. I just don't see them as being that numerous, at least not in my experience.

Exactly. The so-called "Christian" right is just a bugaboo. The repubs ask for their votes and then kick them to curb the minute they get into office, similar to the way donks do with gays. The hardcore fringe left is far more dangerous and powerful than the religious right. See: George Soros.

OL FU wrote:

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:the tea party was a soulless bastard child of dc consulting firms... there's never been anything "grassroots" about it.

the only thing uniting the gop right now is the "us vs. them" dynamic... that's it. when the libertarians realize they've been had... again... by the fundies and the corporate conks... maybe the rift will break wide open... it's an unsustainable mix as a party - it resembles the dems in the early 60's with the southern democrats and the northern liberals... parties realign every generation or so and the gop in particular is long overdue for the reagan/bush coalition to collapse.

Not real concerned about how it was created, but it certainly has brought people into the political arena that would not have been involved before. What I am concerned about that it stays true to its roots regardless of its origins. Smaller Government, original intent of the constitution. We have needed a small "l" libertarian movement in this country for a long time.

I do fear that other will co-opt the movement.

It was BUILT to be co-opted... look at Rand Paul for chrissakes... started out talking like a libertarian and by the time October rolled around you could have confused him for Mitch McConnell he was so tight to national GOP talking points.

it hasn't brought "new people" to the political arena - it's the same nutters who were at GOP conventions ten years ago - now they just have people agreeing with their ranting. it is a movement of angry white people - which is what the GOP has been for fifteen years or more.

the only thing the tea party stands for is wanting conks back in power... they don't care who, why or how. and as i said in another thread - if the libertarians in the crowd are really deluding themselves that the gop will change to reflect their values, they only stand to be sadly disappointed again.

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:

OL FU wrote:
Not real concerned about how it was created, but it certainly has brought people into the political arena that would not have been involved before. What I am concerned about that it stays true to its roots regardless of its origins. Smaller Government, original intent of the constitution. We have needed a small "l" libertarian movement in this country for a long time.

I do fear that other will co-opt the movement.

It was BUILT to be co-opted... look at Rand Paul for chrissakes... started out talking like a libertarian and by the time October rolled around you could have confused him for Mitch McConnell he was so tight to national GOP talking points.

it hasn't brought "new people" to the political arena - it's the same nutters who were at GOP conventions ten years ago - now they just have people agreeing with their ranting. it is a movement of angry white people - which is what the GOP has been for fifteen years or more.

the only thing the tea party stands for is wanting conks back in power... they don't care who, why or how. and as i said in another thread - if the libertarians in the crowd are really deluding themselves that the gop will change to reflect their values, they only stand to be sadly disappointed again.

Bitter about losing your race in New Mexico, TTBF?

OL FU wrote: ...Not real concerned about how it was created, but it certainly has brought people into the political arena that would not have been involved before. What I am concerned about that it stays true to its roots regardless of its origins. Smaller Government, original intent of the constitution. We have needed a small "l" libertarian movement in this country for a long time. ....

the "progressive" democratic party has become a den of thieves coalition with no cajones... there's never been anything "grassroots" about it.

the only thing uniting the democratic party right now is the "bush-cheney hatred" doctrine... that's it. when the progressives realize they've been had... again... by the apologists & corporate donks... maybe the rift will break wide open... it's an unsustainable mix as a party - it resembles the reps in the mid 70's with the Goldwater Reps and the former southern democrats... parties realign every generation or so and the "progressive" dems in particular will disassociate themselves from the Obama "Change We Can Believe In" mantra heading into 2012.....

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:

OL FU wrote:
Not real concerned about how it was created, but it certainly has brought people into the political arena that would not have been involved before. What I am concerned about that it stays true to its roots regardless of its origins. Smaller Government, original intent of the constitution. We have needed a small "l" libertarian movement in this country for a long time.

I do fear that other will co-opt the movement.

It was BUILT to be co-opted... look at Rand Paul for chrissakes... started out talking like a libertarian and by the time October rolled around you could have confused him for Mitch McConnell he was so tight to national GOP talking points.

it hasn't brought "new people" to the political arena - it's the same nutters who were at GOP conventions ten years ago - now they just have people agreeing with their ranting. it is a movement of angry white people - which is what the GOP has been for fifteen years or more.

the only thing the tea party stands for is wanting conks back in power... they don't care who, why or how. and as i said in another thread - if the libertarians in the crowd are really deluding themselves that the gop will change to reflect their values, they only stand to be sadly disappointed again.

Don't agree. The Tea Party are the people that vote those nut cases in. The question is not whether the Rand PAul's of the world will be co-opted. It is whether the people that voted for them will. I fear they will. I pray they won't. and of course Appaholic has it exactly right on his post right above me.

Appaholic wrote:the "progressive" democratic party has become a den of thieves coalition with no cajones... there's never been anything "grassroots" about it.

the only thing uniting the democratic party right now is the "bush-cheney hatred" doctrine... that's it. when the progressives realize they've been had... again... by the apologists & corporate donks... maybe the rift will break wide open... it's an unsustainable mix as a party - it resembles the reps in the mid 70's with the Goldwater Reps and the former southern democrats... parties realign every generation or so and the "progressive" dems in particular will disassociate themselves from the Obama "Change We Can Believe In" mantra heading into 2012.....

I wouldn't hold our hand on your ass waiting for that to happen. Remember, dipshits like Cappy were loudly proclaiming the death of the Republican Party in 2008 and somehow it managed to reinent itself by the next election. Me thinks the Donk party will do much the same.

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:

OL FU wrote:
Not real concerned about how it was created, but it certainly has brought people into the political arena that would not have been involved before. What I am concerned about that it stays true to its roots regardless of its origins. Smaller Government, original intent of the constitution. We have needed a small "l" libertarian movement in this country for a long time.

I do fear that other will co-opt the movement.

It was BUILT to be co-opted... look at Rand Paul for chrissakes... started out talking like a libertarian and by the time October rolled around you could have confused him for Mitch McConnell he was so tight to national GOP talking points.

it hasn't brought "new people" to the political arena - it's the same nutters who were at GOP conventions ten years ago - now they just have people agreeing with their ranting. it is a movement of angry white people - which is what the GOP has been for fifteen years or more
.

the only thing the tea party stands for is wanting conks back in power... they don't care who, why or how. and as i said in another thread - if the libertarians in the crowd are really deluding themselves that the gop will change to reflect their values, they only stand to be sadly disappointed again.

Maybe we should drop the "conks" and call them "honks".

AZGrizFan wrote:

Appaholic wrote:the "progressive" democratic party has become a den of thieves coalition with no cajones... there's never been anything "grassroots" about it.

the only thing uniting the democratic party right now is the "bush-cheney hatred" doctrine... that's it. when the progressives realize they've been had... again... by the apologists & corporate donks... maybe the rift will break wide open... it's an unsustainable mix as a party - it resembles the reps in the mid 70's with the Goldwater Reps and the former southern democrats... parties realign every generation or so and the "progressive" dems in particular will disassociate themselves from the Obama "Change We Can Believe In" mantra heading into 2012.....

I wouldn't hold our hand on your ass waiting for that to happen. Remember, dipshits like Cappy were loudly proclaiming the death of the Republican Party in 2008 and somehow it managed to reinent itself by the next election. Me thinks the Donk party will do much the same.

Agree....both parties are like the dude from Terminator 2....& just as dangerous....& should dealt with in same manner....