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Gentlemen,
Was interesting to read the back and forth on Jon's thread related to the Gulf dead zone and it's tie to the recent oil disaster.
Was watching Minnesota Public Television a few days ago and viewed the documentary linked above, entitled, "Troubled Waters: A Mississippi River Story" which links agricultural activity and urban runoff to an even bigger dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico. The oil spill effects pale in comparison to this.

The gist of it is that fertilizers and other biomass have run into the Gulf causing gigantic algeal blooms, after which the algae die and are consumed by an onslaught of bacteria, which uses up all available oxygen, creating dead zones. Interesting to note, too, and it's covered in the documentary, that it is not only a U.S./Gulf of Mexico phenomenon - there are dozens and dozens of river deltas worldwide where this is occuring.

Did not know this until researching for this thread, but the documentary caused quite a bit of controversy for it's "villifying" of agriculture and, surprisingly, a University of Minnesota "embargo" on showing it.

Shot almost entirely in SE Minnesota, it does villify agriculture, and rightfully so. Plus take the time to view the doc in its enitrety at your leisure. Very informative, eye-opening and revealing. The government has a large role in this, too. They are failing to do anything about it, for fear of upsetting farmers. Note the portion of the video in which an entrepeneur tries to raise alternative crops on land allocated solely for corn or soybeans. His landlord gets fined $9000 for this affront. Shameful.

Anyway, our bountiful food comes at a terrible cost to the environment, yet we do nothing to halt the degradation.




Edit: The word "Minnesota" is Sioux for "cloudy water".

Well if you'd stop stuffing your fat ass at every meal, we wouldn't need to harvest so much.

Is this news? I've been hearing about dead zones, algae blooms and nitrogen run off for decades.

Beat me to it Andy. Damn Pennsylvanian farmers.

Called hypoxia. A large area of low to very low disolved O2. Been a problem since the 70's and the begining of massive use of nitrogen and phosphorus fertilizers. Received quite a bit of press starting in the 80's.

The hypoxic dead zone moves around and changes in size with environmental factors.

Completely preventable. Farmers must have these fertilizers in order to profitably grow crops, but, like most big business, farmers are greedy and over-apply. If they would develop and follow a nutrient buget/fertility management plan the amounts of nutrient entering surface and ground water could be held to a minimum.

89Hen wrote:Beat me to it Andy. Damn Pennsylvanian farmers.

Chicken poop from GD'ed 93's side of the bridge!

[quote="andy7171"]Is this news? I've been hearing about dead zones, algae blooms and nitrogen run off for decades.

/quote]


Just reminding folks about the larger cause of dead zones, kids.

Watch the video, too.

Cap'n Cat wrote:

andy7171 wrote:Is this news? I've been hearing about dead zones, algae blooms and nitrogen run off for decades.

/quote]


Just reminding folks about the larger cause of dead zones, kids.

Watch the video, too.

Reminding us? It's beaten into our heads here in the Chesapeake watershed.

That said Save the Bay is my charity of choice outside of that which D1B despises.

andy7171 wrote:

Cap'n Cat wrote:

Reminding us? It's beaten into our heads here in the Chesapeake watershed.

That said Save the Bay is my charity of choice outside of that which D1B despises.

Understand. You ain't the only one reading this. AND, it ain't Chesapeake Bay. If you wanna learn something about another place in the world, it's a good watch. If you don't, don't sweat it.

OSBF wrote:Called hypoxia. A large area of low to very low disolved O2. Been a problem since the 70's and the begining of massive use of nitrogen and phosphorus fertilizers. Received quite a bit of press starting in the 80's.

The hypoxic dead zone moves around and changes in size with environmental factors.

Completely preventable. Farmers must have these fertilizers in order to profitably grow crops, but, like most big business, farmers are greedy and over-apply. If they would develop and follow a nutrient buget/fertility management plan the amounts of nutrient entering surface and ground water could be held to a minimum.

My brothers fields are computer mapped, so every portion of the field is fertilized according to the nutrition informataion for each part of the field. His sprayer applies a measured portion of nutrients per the computer readout. It's very interesting how you can see the good parts of the field, the clay area's etc. Same for seeding, progress in farming is much better than most of us knew as kids. He also has his fields mapped on gps, so all he has to do really is turn the tractor at the end of the field.

Gil Dobie wrote:

OSBF wrote:Called hypoxia. A large area of low to very low disolved O2. Been a problem since the 70's and the begining of massive use of nitrogen and phosphorus fertilizers. Received quite a bit of press starting in the 80's.

The hypoxic dead zone moves around and changes in size with environmental factors.

Completely preventable. Farmers must have these fertilizers in order to profitably grow crops, but, like most big business, farmers are greedy and over-apply. If they would develop and follow a nutrient buget/fertility management plan the amounts of nutrient entering surface and ground water could be held to a minimum.

My brothers fields are computer mapped, so every portion of the field is fertilized according to the nutrition informataion for each part of the field. His sprayer applies a measured portion of nutrients per the computer readout. It's very interesting how you can see the good parts of the field, the clay area's etc. Same for seeding, progress in farming is much better than most of us knew as kids. He also has his fields mapped on gps, so all he has to do really is turn the tractor at the end of the field.

Right, Gil. I encourage people, again, to watch this documentary. It speaks to that very thing.

andy7171 wrote:

Cap'n Cat wrote:

Reminding us? It's beaten into our heads here in the Chesapeake watershed.

That said Save the Bay is my charity of choice outside of that which D1B despises.

You've got one of those "Chester the Treasurepeake" license plates?

Cap'n thanks for the link. I've seen some on the issue before and other issues related to farming. I'll give it a watch.

There is one on Monsanto and Canola oil (seed patents) that is a great watch also if you come across that one watch it.

Gil Dobie wrote:

OSBF wrote:Called hypoxia. A large area of low to very low disolved O2. Been a problem since the 70's and the begining of massive use of nitrogen and phosphorus fertilizers. Received quite a bit of press starting in the 80's.

The hypoxic dead zone moves around and changes in size with environmental factors.

Completely preventable. Farmers must have these fertilizers in order to profitably grow crops, but, like most big business, farmers are greedy and over-apply. If they would develop and follow a nutrient buget/fertility management plan the amounts of nutrient entering surface and ground water could be held to a minimum.

My brothers fields are computer mapped, so every portion of the field is fertilized according to the nutrition informataion for each part of the field. His sprayer applies a measured portion of nutrients per the computer readout. It's very interesting how you can see the good parts of the field, the clay area's etc. Same for seeding, progress in farming is much better than most of us knew as kids. He also has his fields mapped on gps, so all he has to do really is turn the tractor at the end of the field.

Good lord, do farmers work at all anymore? Subsidized crops, subsidized crop insurance, CRP, drive the caddy, go to phoenix in the winter, and collect the $ for about two months work. It's a nice gig if you can get it.

kalm wrote:

Gil Dobie wrote: My brothers fields are computer mapped, so every portion of the field is fertilized according to the nutrition informataion for each part of the field. His sprayer applies a measured portion of nutrients per the computer readout. It's very interesting how you can see the good parts of the field, the clay area's etc. Same for seeding, progress in farming is much better than most of us knew as kids. He also has his fields mapped on gps, so all he has to do really is turn the tractor at the end of the field.

Good lord, do farmers work at all anymore? Subsidized crops, subsidized crop insurance, CRP, drive the caddy, go to phoenix in the winter, and collect the $ for about two months work. It's a nice gig if you can get it.

Not sure what kind of farming you are talking about. It's a 12 month a year job, winter includes hauling grain to market, repairing and cleaning machinery, planning the next season. Winter just means a return to 8 hour days. You have to go to Georgia to find subsidized peanunts if anything is subsidized anymore.

Gil Dobie wrote:

kalm wrote:
Good lord, do farmers work at all anymore? Subsidized crops, subsidized crop insurance, CRP, drive the caddy, go to phoenix in the winter, and collect the $ for about two months work. It's a nice gig if you can get it.

Not sure what kind of farming you are talking about. It's a 12 month a year job, winter includes hauling grain to market, repairing and cleaning machinery, planning the next season. Winter just means a return to 8 hour days. You have to go to Georgia to find subsidized peanunts if anything is subsidized anymore.

I don't know what kalm is talking about either Gil. Both sides of my family came from E. Montana farms and there was CRP but the only thing they never ran out of was work. You wanna see a fella that actually knows enough to get by in any shitty situation then you take a look at a farmer. Everyone of em' I ever met could weld, drive, or coax anything like nobody's business then go in and cook a well deserved big ol' meat & potato dinner while whipping your ass at a game of cribbage or poker...your choice.

There aren't many people on the face of the planet that earn their money to the fullest extent that a farmer does.

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:

Gil Dobie wrote:
Not sure what kind of farming you are talking about. It's a 12 month a year job, winter includes hauling grain to market, repairing and cleaning machinery, planning the next season. Winter just means a return to 8 hour days. You have to go to Georgia to find subsidized peanunts if anything is subsidized anymore.

I don't know what kalm is talking about either Gil. Both sides of my family came from E. Montana farms and there was CRP but the only thing they never ran out of was work. You wanna see a fella that actually knows enough to get by in any shitty situation then you take a look at a farmer. Everyone of em' I ever met could weld, drive, or coax anything like nobody's business then go in and cook a well deserved big ol' meat & potato dinner while whipping your ass at a game of cribbage or poker...your choice.

There aren't many people on the face of the planet that earn their money to the fullest extent that a farmer does.

I know, I have several wheat farmer friends and family in the AG industry. Just trying to stir the pot.

kalm wrote:

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote: I don't know what kalm is talking about either Gil. Both sides of my family came from E. Montana farms and there was CRP but the only thing they never ran out of was work. You wanna see a fella that actually knows enough to get by in any shitty situation then you take a look at a farmer. Everyone of em' I ever met could weld, drive, or coax anything like nobody's business then go in and cook a well deserved big ol' meat & potato dinner while whipping your ass at a game of cribbage or poker...your choice.

There aren't many people on the face of the planet that earn their money to the fullest extent that a farmer does.

I know, I have several wheat farmer friends and family in the AG industry. Just trying to stir the pot.

I was pretty sure of that due to your location so I just let it lay there so you could feel a little guilty that your bait wasn't taken...and possibly misunderstood.

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:

kalm wrote:
I know, I have several wheat farmer friends and family in the AG industry. Just trying to stir the pot.

I was pretty sure of that due to your location so I just let it lay there so you could feel a little guilty that your bait wasn't taken...and possibly misunderstood.

Mission accomplished....dick.

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote: Not sure what kind of farming you are talking about. It's a 12 month a year job, winter includes hauling grain to market, repairing and cleaning machinery, planning the next season. Winter just means a return to 8 hour days. You have to go to Georgia to find subsidized peanunts if anything is subsidized anymore.

I don't know what kalm is talking about either Gil. Both sides of my family came from E. Montana farms and there was CRP but the only thing they never ran out of was work. You wanna see a fella that actually knows enough to get by in any shitty situation then you take a look at a farmer. Everyone of em' I ever met could weld, drive, or coax anything like nobody's business then go in and cook a well deserved big ol' meat & potato dinner while whipping your ass at a game of cribbage or poker...your choice.

There aren't many people on the face of the planet that earn their money to the fullest extent that a farmer does.[/quote]



My grandfather was a farmer. Damned good guy with a very keen mind. He was full of integrity and ingenuity and he could fix just about anything. Always up at 4am...milked the cows, worked all day (also started a furniture business) and always went to sleep early. Avid reader. Got up on the roof of the barn to paint it when he was in his 90s! Grew up during the Depression...counted every dime and died with millions.

Anytime you thought you had a problem he would immediately cut through the BS and get you down to the basics.

Miss that guy...he had sharp sense of humor.

Cluck U wrote:

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:
I don't know what kalm is talking about either Gil. Both sides of my family came from E. Montana farms and there was CRP but the only thing they never ran out of was work. You wanna see a fella that actually knows enough to get by in any shitty situation then you take a look at a farmer. Everyone of em' I ever met could weld, drive, or coax anything like nobody's business then go in and cook a well deserved big ol' meat & potato dinner while whipping your ass at a game of cribbage or poker...your choice.

There aren't many people on the face of the planet that earn their money to the fullest extent that a farmer does.

My grandfather was a farmer. Damned good guy with a very keen mind. He was full of integrity and ingenuity and he could fix just about anything. Always up at 4am...milked the cows, worked all day (also started a furniture business) and always went to sleep early. Avid reader. Got up on the roof of the barn to paint it when he was in his 90s! Grew up during the Depression...counted every dime and died with millions.

Anytime you thought you had a problem he would immediately cut through the BS and get you down to the basics.

Miss that guy...he had sharp sense of humor.

Sounds like we have/had GF's cut of the same cloth. I still got one left and he's a hoot. Nothing beats the calm, cut through the horse shit demeanor of a Grizzled ol' coot.

kalm wrote:

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote: I was pretty sure of that due to your location so I just let it lay there so you could feel a little guilty that your bait wasn't taken...and possibly misunderstood.

Mission accomplished....dick.

You're welcome.

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:

Cluck U wrote:


My grandfather was a farmer. Damned good guy with a very keen mind. He was full of integrity and ingenuity and he could fix just about anything. Always up at 4am...milked the cows, worked all day (also started a furniture business) and always went to sleep early. Avid reader. Got up on the roof of the barn to paint it when he was in his 90s! Grew up during the Depression...counted every dime and died with millions.

Anytime you thought you had a problem he would immediately cut through the BS and get you down to the basics.

Miss that guy...he had sharp sense of humor.

Sounds like we have/had GF's cut of the same cloth. I still got one left and he's a hoot. Nothing beats the calm, cut through the horse **** demeanor of a Grizzled ol' coot.

Funny thing about this in regards to you and Gil is I had a grandpa who was a stubborn but solid old Norwegian from North Dakota who also happened to be a rum runner in Havre during prohibition. Hell, we're probably all related.

kalm wrote:

Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:
Sounds like we have/had GF's cut of the same cloth. I still got one left and he's a hoot. Nothing beats the calm, cut through the horse **** demeanor of a Grizzled ol' coot.

Funny thing about this in regards to you and Gil is I had a grandpa who was a stubborn but solid old Norwegian from North Dakota who also happened to be a rum runner in Havre during prohibition. Hell, we're probably all related.

That why always say shit like "Thanks brother".

Man, you guys are really delusional about what a "farmer" is today. I applaud your romantic, but dated and un-realistic notion. Today, a "farmer" is the owner of a large corporation that uses the land as its "factory" to produce a product. They never get any mud or dirt on their own boots, they pay people to do that. They own/manage thousands of acres and answer to a single large investor or a board of directors. They are HEAVILY govt subsidised, and set up shadow corporations and entities to get around govt payment limits."cheap" farmland in our area is now selling for $8500/ac on the low end. The "family" farm is a distant memory, the big business of farming has made sure the little guy can't play the game anymore.

Wanna know who gets how much government "cheese"? Here's an interesting link:

http://farm.ewg.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

you can search by state/county, name, type of subsidy, etc etc.

The $$$$ some of these mega corporate farms are getting in the form of a govt corporate welfare check is disgusting.
Even more revolting is that, at least in Illinois, these huge mega corporations are tax exempt.

Yeah, being a "farmer" is a pretty good gig, if you can get it.